EU Emissions / US equivalent info sought

[Fueggia]

Can anyone please educate me and or direct me to information that would
shed some light on the strict EU emissions guidelines.
I am interested in a vehicle that is located in Europe.
I need to see if it can be imported and licensed both in Europe and US.
Step one is understanding the emmissions equivalent and requirements in the two locations.
EU 5 emissions implementations begin 09/09 -
The 18,000 lb 2 axel diesle truck- MAN chasis is the vehicle in question.

Thanks for any and all leads.

email direct if you prefer- mauricio@handlerphoto.com

 

[kerry]

I don't know much about emissions differences but I do know that licensing a vehicle in Europe can sometimes be challenging. I live in the US, and am a UK citizen. I bought an MB motorhome in the UK and managed to license it there using my cousin's address. Other countries require residency to license a vehicle. When I was researching the question, I recollect that Luxembourg provided some advantages for licensing a vehicle. I would think that licensing a vehicle in the US and in Europe (at least at the same time) would be an interesting challenge.
I have also owned a grey market MB van in the US. It was an 85 409d. I know in the case of that particular van, there were other things like the location of the VIN number that had to be modified to meet US requirements. There are companies that specialize in importing vehicles. It's my understanding the process is not cheap.

If a person were to plan to drive a vehicle in a number of different countries over a period of years, what would be the most beneficial country in which to register that vehicle and why?

 

[charlieaarons]

Euro 5 diesel emission regulations are less strict than EPA 2007-10 regulations, believe it or not.
I pray every day that Euro 6 and EPA 2010 will be identical.
Unfortunately it is not possible to permanently licence a European specified vehicle in the US. It may be possible to do the reverse (US vehicle in Europe) but who'd be interested in what we have here that you can't get in Europe? Not me.

Charlie

 

[Fueggia]

Thank you guys
Charlie- I am interested in buying a vehicle in Germany- MAN Chas
with box- Are you saying that regardless of the emissions level (EU 4, 5 or 6)
I will not be able to import permanently to the US?
I guess that is really the question-
I am in the US and am looking to Europe for a good Exspedition Vehicle.
Do you know if a link to the legal/law side of these?
Any thoughts?
Should I just stop looking to Europe?
I agree with you- there is little here in the US that you cannot get -better in
Europe. There are currently some very good buys there!

Any info welcome.
Thank you

Mauricio

 

[Desolation]

If things have not changed in the past 8 years, you will have to bring the vehicle into compliance with all current Federal DOT regulations, basic things like Glass, Bumpers, safety restraints, possibly wheels and tires and the list goes on. Then you will have to pass all the emissions requirements set by the EPA for the type of fuel. At least that is what we had to do then.
There are companies that will do this for you and while pricey, I would not hesitate to find one.

D

 

[Sleeping Dog]

Thank you guys
Charlie- I am interested in buying a vehicle in Germany- MAN Chas
with box- Are you saying that regardless of the emissions level (EU 4, 5 or 6)
I will not be able to import permanently to the US?
I guess that is really the question-
I am in the US and am looking to Europe for a good Exspedition Vehicle.
Do you know if a link to the legal/law side of these?
Any thoughts?
Should I just stop looking to Europe?
I agree with you- there is little here in the US that you cannot get -better in
Europe. There are currently some very good buys there!

Any info welcome.
Thank you

Mauricio

Mauricio, its worse than you think. You cannot import a vehicle that is under 25 years old yourself. The importation can only be done by a register importer and outfitter. Plus it the vehicle needs to be on the list of eligible vehicles. http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/CARS/RULES/IMPORT/

 

[kerry]

I don't see anything about trucks in the regulations or lists of vehicles at that link.

 

[charlieaarons]

My answer to your dilemma was to buy a good European expedition truck chassis when one could buy them in the US new. So, I ended up with an 05 Unimog U500. You can still find a few in the US in good condition with low mileage with the options needed to make a good expedition truck. I'd much rather have a U500 than a MAN in North America for the reason that any Freightliner dealer or Detroit Diesel shop can order parts, and they even know how to work on the engine since it is a fairly common engine even in North America.
Homologation of a Euro 5 MAN engine to EPA 2010 emission specs would be extremely expensive and time-consuming. As far as NOx is concerned, I'd guess it would take starting with an EGR equipped Euro 3 MAN 0826 engine and then adding Euro 5 SCR/DPF. I don't know if the Euro 5 DPF would be enough to take care of particulate requirements for EPA10, which are tighter than Euro 5. Maybe by advancing the timing, increasing turbo boost and hoping the NOx didn't overwhelm the EGR/SCR? See what I mean?

Charlie

 

[dhackney]

If you are interested in the U.S. vs. Euro emissions laws/variations, there is info here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25516

 

[charlieaarons]

The bottom line is that Euro VI heavy duty emissions in terms of g/kwh are:
NOx 0.4
PM 0.01
EPA 2010 in terms of gm/kwh
NOx 0.27
PM 0.013

Close enough that we MIGHT see some Euro engines again after 2010. Daimler was mumbling about bringing the U500 back to North America again after 2010. They're going to have to have a version of the 900 series engine for Freightliner trucks at that point; they are fairly committed to it by now with 2007 emissions, which gradually trend into 2010. The big jump for Euro is V to VI in 2013 or 2014; the big jump for EPA was 2007.
Of course they sell 200/week or so 900 series motors in Freightliners and they were selling about 1 U500 a week when they pulled it out.
I have been doing a LOT of internet research the last few weeks regarding emission specs with regards to motor oils. It is my considered opinion that one can travel the world with a new truck with DPF and SCR and even use high sulfur fuel, but 2 things will be needed:
1) if CJ-4 lube oil is used oil change intervals will need to be decreased, because CJ-4 oil has less alkaline reserve to neutralize sulfuric acid buildup in the oil. CJ-4 motor oil might not be available everywhere but a lube oil change can be carried and ACEA E6 or E9 oil is very similar.
2) The expensive catalysts in the SCR and DPF will be damaged more quickly, depending on how much high sulfur fuel is burned. I would guess that a 40-50K mile trip would be feasible, maybe much longer, considering that sulfur contents in fuel are dropping worldwide. That's assuming the equipment is new at the beginning of the trip.
3) It might be possible to take the truck out of limp mode with the appropriate computer but it might be necessary to do a computer manipulation EVERY time the truck is started.
4) I don't know about running out of urea solution; that could be a BIG problem, maybe there is a computer workaround for people travelling outside the EC/North America. It would be a real pain to carry 50,000 miles worth of urea solution. Maybe a bag of powdered urea, the solution is easy to make, it's 33%??
All in all I'm glad my engine just has "low EGR"

Charlie

 

[Fueggia]

Thanks for all the detailed insight.
Complicated issue.
There are such great vehicles in EU -its a shame we cannot bring them here.
Nevertheless- I will begin a more detailed search right here in America to keep things timely and cost effective.
I understand the Unimog importation is also coming to an end?
Does anyone know this?
I am strongly considering the FG as well-
On the FG front- is what would be the best Crew cab option?
There is no FG 4x4 CC version correct?

Thanks to all again.

 

[kerry]

There is no FG 4x4 CC version correct?

Not in the USA. There is in other parts of the world. I wonder if the official importation of standard FG's would have any impact on the question of whether a person could import a crewcab FG?
Initially my preference was for a crewcab FG. Once I got my standard cab, tilted it and got intimate with my engine, I realized that the fact that crewcab does not tilt is a serious drawback to engine maintenance.

 

[charlieaarons]

Thanks for all the detailed insight.
Complicated issue.
There are such great vehicles in EU -its a shame we cannot bring them here.
Nevertheless- I will begin a more detailed search right here in America to keep things timely and cost effective.
I understand the Unimog importation is also coming to an end?
Does anyone know this?

Thanks to all again.

Like I thought I said above, U500 importation into North America stopped at the end of 2006. However, for example, recently 2 U500s in excellent condition were on the market for ~$75K, with <15K miles. With CTIS, EAS, hydraulics, long wheelbase and other desirable options.
The U500 is the closest thing to a MAN 18.280 that is legal in the US. And is superior in a number of ways: portal hubs, very low working gears, disk brakes are 3 important differences.

Charlie

 

[Mickldo]

I just found out today that the new Isuzus with the new DPD in the exhaust need to have a special kit installed when a PTO is fitted. I don't understand exactly how it works yet but there is something to do with shutting down the PTO while the DPD is doing its thing. This could be a problem, shutting down the PTO, if you are in the middle of a winching operation for example. I have to do a bit more research on it for a truck we are going to start building soon. I don't know if the Canter or any of the others with a similar exhaust system will have to have a similar kit.

 

[whatcharterboat]

Mick don't you get a bit of warning with the NPS before they do the burn off?