Expedition JK Build

[Topo.Ranger]

Everyone,

So I have been looking around at some threads on Pirate 4x4 and I found this forum so I decided to post this thread on here as well. I am very interested in the expedition vehicles but I didn't see a lot of 4 Door JKs on Pirate 4x4, I am hoping to find alot more on here. I will be building a 4 door for 2 person with a dog. I have seen a lot of roof top tents but I haven't found the perfect one yet. I'm new to the overlander type builds so if you have any modifications that have helped you out in different situations please feel free to educate me! I haven't started this build because I am currently deployed in the Navy so the Jeep is getting built on paper right now. Here is an idea of what I would like to build:

-4 Door JK- Mango Tango - Better Visibility in my opinion
-Hard Top
-Engine- stock for now but I really want a Cummins diesel or a LS1 or LS2 if I stay gasoline
-Roof top tent- I like the Camping Lab roof top tent the best, the 47" by 94"
-possibly a body mounted ladder
-OB Air, water, and welder
-GPS- I need help in this department. Where is everyone finding these computers or screens with built in GPS? What is the best way to mount GPS items.
-35" Tires with beadlocks
-Body Armor- I'm big into rock crawling so I gotta have my steel armor. Not a fan of aluminum.
-1 ton axles with lockers
-better built roll cage
-Roto Pax with window replacement mounting system
-Snorkel... I have an ARB snorkel on my '99 TJ but for the JK this is still up for discussion.
-Front and Rear Bumpers- something with good approach and departure angles, nothing extremely bulky but still very strong. I like the stinger style bumpers but I'm not sure if they are practical for this type of project.
-Lighting- I will LED lights. Something like the Vision-X light bars, Truck-Lite headlamps.


This is all I have right now! Please send some suggestions!

 

[NuggetHoarder]

One of the main concepts for overland style travel is that the expedition is vehicle dependent and vehicle supported. You've mentioned modifications to the Jeep that will help your Jeep get into hard to reach areas, but your mods list doesn't mention much about how the vehicle supports people, beyond your mention of a roof top tent and carrying a couple small jugs of water.

My opinion is that your focus should be on human support and how your Jeep will aid you in that support. You're going to need a lot of gear, so cargo management should be near the top of your mods. Water is obviously a major component as well. A couple of rotopax will probably not be enough and they are designed more as emergency containers than as daily use water jugs that can be quickly and frequently accessed.

It is also my opinion that some\ of the mods you mention, like a new engine are not really needed for an expedition, and could increase your risk of getting stranded. I strongly suggest that you try to keep your Jeep as close to stock condition as possible unless absolutely necessary.

Another item that you have completely left out are electrical mods. You will probably want some lights, and you should consider a dual battery setup, especially if you plan on a winch or refrigerator.

I don't mean to sound harsh, and I certainly don't want to discourage you but I can't think of any way to say this other than to say that the list of mods you've listed will make your rig look absolutely beautfiul, but really won't do much for you on an overland expedition.

The list of mods you've laid out will also just about double the cost of your Jeep. From a cost standpoint, you may be better off purchasing a Jeep JK Rubicon and leave everything stock except the bumpers. You'd save a ton of cash, keep your warranty intact, and you could then devote your efforts to building an overland rig instead of just a rock crawler.

 

[Hilldweller]

-Lighting- I will LED lights. Something like the Vision-X light bars, Truck-Lite headlamps.

This is all I have right now! Please send some suggestions!

Truck-Lite headlights are very durable but the photometry shows them to be pretty poor performance as far as headlights go; they barely pass muster for 40 year old standards to meet DOT certification.
If you'd like LED headlights, I'd suggest JW Speaker units.
See this headlight shootout that I did recently. It's a work in progress, actually.

I'm having very good results with the Truck-Lite Spots and Floods though. I especially like the floods offroad. If the weather is foul, I use them along with yellow fogs.

 

[Hilldweller]

and, agreeing with the previous poster, I'd use Aberle aluminum bumpers to save weight, add a winch, AEV 2.5" lift, 33" tires, AEV snorkle, drawers/fridge/stove/propane like the Habitat from Adventure Trailers, stock engine, dual Optima Yellow-tops.
Think about life on the road. I've got 78,000 miles on this thing and just switched trailers yesterday. Hoping for at least another 78,000 miles. Gotta keep some of the mods light and simple.

 

[MuleShoer]

You also might want to take a look at GenRight equipment, their medium is aluminum and they build quality equipment from bumpers to gas tanks. If I did a do over I would have gone aluminum material as much as possible

I assume by "1-ton differentials" you mean Dana 60's, way way overkill not to mention the weight. They may work for crawling but on a long trip they are a detriment to performance.

I gave up on the Cummins swap after running the trap line on an install into a JK. Besides the USA emissions compliance issues we were never able to work out the vehicle interfaces, basically the engine will run but nothing else will work...One of my engineers who previously worked for Volvo and Freightliner on powerplant interfaces couldn't figure it out. We are working on a lower cost 5.7 V-8 swap that will be all stock.

As previously stated "stock" is an important. Having a failure in BFE will be a whole lot easier to deal with either at an interface or parts level. When I upgraded axles I went with superior but stayed with stock splines, if one takes a dump a stock axle, ie easy to find, will work.

As already noted in the long run Rubicon JKU will be cheaper to get started building an Overland type rig then a scratch built.

Cheers

 

[JPK]

I think that you'll have a fun time planning your rig but a harder time building it, partly because, imo, rock crawling and overlanding are on almost opposite sides of spectrum of builds. But I don't think they are as incompatable as NuggerHoaerder seems to think.

Here are a couple of examples where building for rock crawling and for overlanding clash. Weight, the armor that would be perfect for rock crawling is likely to be too heavy for an overlanding rig because some of the set up requirements for overlanding add a ton of weight too, and the JKU's can only take so much. OEM, the closer to oem the easier to get replacement parts and to get things fixed when trouble occurs (but if your boundaries of overlanding remain within the US, Canada and Mexico I don't think it really matters.)

I am doing somethin along the lines of what you are planning, but with more emphasis on the overlanding than the rock crawling. For example, I'll be taking my JKU to Easter Jeep Safari and running some trails that are rated on the difficult side which my Jeep is plenty capable of, and I'll be driving the 2100 miles there and back, which for rigs built too far on the scale toward rock crawling would be damned uncomfortable or even impossible to do.

With the weight required for either an overland or rock crawling build, and certainly for a mixed use build, you will NEED a very good suspension system, and the stock one won't cut it. I have American Expedition Vehicle's suspension system and its great. 35" tires are probably the best option for an overlanding/rock crawling build but I run 37's anyway, only because my 10yr old son wanted the bigger meats.

Even if you go Rubicon, which I would also suggest, you will need to re-gear. With the 3.8l 5.13's and 35's works great, I've driven a JKU with that set up and its a very good combo. If you go Hemi - see below - then 4.88's.

The V8 is a great addition in my book, and ought to be since I have one in my JKU. But there are very few successful LS conversions because everything on the JKU is computer controled and the GM and Chrysler systems are all but incompatable. The solution is to look to the Chrysler Hemis. I have a 5.7l VVT in my Jeep and it is all that one could ask for and more. AEV offers the best kit for converting. Burnsville Offroad also offers a kit but there have been too many reports of downstream problems, imo.

An auxilliary tank is required for either a built JKU with the 3.8l or a Hemi since the weight will make the 3.8 a gas sucking pig. The Hemi gets poor milage but the milage doesn't change much with load or use since the Hemi is loafing most of the time. Its not uncommon to read of 3.8l milage plummeting as weight is added to the JKU's to Hemi milage territory, but the poor sob still has the underpowered 3.8l.

Long Ranger offers a complete auxilliary tank kit that adds 18gals. I have a Long Ranger tank and it works great. GenRight offers a 20gal auxilliary tank as well, but you loose the rear under floor storage compartment and have to fiddle with exhaust mods too. ARB will import the Long Ranger, GenRight is available direct from them.

You'll need a roof rack for at least the RTT and probably other gear, though I try to keep top side gear to a minimum. The Gobi rack is probably tops, but look at Front Runner Outfitters, Garvin Industries, MRB (?) and Wild Boar. There are some others too.

Snorkle choices would be AEV, which I have, or a new one from River Raiders Off Road that is very nice and cowl level. BTW, the AEV heat reduction hood really works and is worth looking into, and it makes their snarkle instal easy too. Stops hood flutter as well.

You'll want a winch, and if you go with Warn's Powerplant you can plumb in the built in air compressor to a tank for OBA. MY JKU front bumper won't accomodate the Powerplant but I ahve on on an LJ and its good gear imo. My JKU winch is a Warn 9.5ti, which is also good gear, but without the air compressor.

There are only a few road worthy bead lock set ups. AEV offers one, I think ALCOA offers one as well. One option maybe worth looking into is recentered Humvee wheels and ex-mil tires. Take a look at Trailworthy Offroad for options there. I've dealt with TW and they're good to do business with.

I'm working on the GPS/mapping software right now...

Dual battery is nice, but if you go Hemi then you'll be looking into where to put that second battery. There are a couple of packaged options for the rear, but they take up needed space. I went with one Group 31 deep cycle Optima for now. AEV makes a battery tray that fits with the Hemi and holds a Group 31.

I know you scratched aluminum armor, but you ought to look again. Take a look at River Raider. 1/2 the weight, most of the protection.

You will want to look at 12v refirgerator/freezers. I like Engel, but there is also the National Luna, which is also top of the line and Waeco, which I know less about.

I'll add some more thoughts as they occur...

JPK

 

[MuleShoer]

The V8 is a great addition in my book, and ought to be since I have one in my JKU. But there are very few successful LS conversions because everything on the JKU is computer controled and the GM and Chrysler systems are all but incompatable. The solution is to look to the Chrysler Hemis. I have a 5.7l VVT in my Jeep and it is all that one could ask for and more. AEV offers the best kit for converting. Burnsville Offroad also offers a kit but there have been too many reports of downstream problems, imo.

There are two other HEMI houses that sell "kits"
Jeep Speed Shop in California, They use the 5.7 PU Hemi as their basic version
Also
Screamin Lizards in Texas
Both good shops

 

[JPK]

I have heard of both, but my impressin is that neither has much track record with selling conversions or kits, unlike AEV and Burnsville. Or is my impression wrong for one or both?

I know that JSS was suposedly working on an LS conversion.

JPK

 

[Hilldweller]

Gear it right and Flashpaq it.
That's one of the reasons I mentioned stopping with 33s. Use a 285/75-16 tire on the lightest cast wheels you can find and try to keep weight down.

Depends if he really wants to "overland" or if he just wants to get to good rock crawling locations. It's hard to crawl an overland vehicle; that's why I pull a trailer.

It's all about what you want to compromise on.

 

[F5driver]

Ripp is posting some good hp and torque gains with it's headers and Diablo tuner.

http://www.rippmods.com/Header_Package_for_JEEP_JK_p/072010jk38-lthdr-7137-hsh.htm

I'd skip the lift and kit it with flat fenders. 35-37" tires will fit with no lift.

 

[JPK]

Add weight to a stock JKU for winch, fridge, ... , either armor for rock crawling or storage and gear for overlanding and the Jeep will be riding on the bump stops.

In addition, the length of the JKU makes the belly vulnerable and high centering a problem.

You will NEED the lift. Proggressive springs will retain unloaded ride quality while still increasing weight carrying ability. A 3.5" lift will accomodate both 35's and the weight you'll be adding. I'd recommend AEV for their very complete kit, fantastic ride quality and weight carrying ability. Rock Krawler would be my second pick.

JPK

 

[NuggetHoarder]

JPK made a great point about overlanding and rock crawling being at opposite ends of the spectrum. He also added some great points about weight, except I think that just adding lift and springs does not necessarily mean you can safely increase the payload.

The factory maximum payload is a combination of factors including the suspension, axles, tires, frame, brake system, cooling system, and transmission and probably some I'm leaving out. You can't just add springs and call it done. Can you squeak by? Probably, but not if you stay overloaded full time. You might end up hurting someone in a wreck. The ultimate worst case is you hit a school bus and they weigh your rig and it's massively overloaded - well then it's off to prison for you, but that's definitely a worst case scenario and I'm just throwing it out there to show that this is serious business. Just hurting someone is enough to deter me from overloading. I at least try to stay close to the maximum and it's a constant battle.

Also, if you add a roof top tent AND roll bars, you're changing the center of gravity in a big way and increasing your rollover potential.

The factory payload number for the Jeep Unlimited JK is 1056 lbs - that's passengers, gear and all modifications.

Some rough math works out like this...

roof rack 90 lbs
roll bars 100 lbs
hilift jack 39 lbs
engel fridge 53 lbs
dual battery 50 lbs
15 gal water 125 lbs
roof top tent 100 lbs
bumpers and winch 200lbs
armor 100 lbs
passengers 300 lbs

The above adds up to 1157 so we're already 100 pounds over and we haven't even added in any camping gear like cooking gear, chairs, sleeping bags, food, beverages, or recovery gear like chains, shackles, etc.

 

[MuleShoer]

I have heard of both, but my impressin is that neither has much track record with selling conversions or kits, unlike AEV and Burnsville. Or is my impression wrong for one or both?

I know that JSS was suposedly working on an LS conversion.

JPK

Fair
JSS has completed 30-40 conversion but number of kits sold is unknown, being on the left coast we may never know
It would be interesting to know how many "kits" AEV has sold since they have an established distribution base.

Now back to the build

 

[JPK]

I know that AEV was turning out 3 turn key conversions a month through July but increased their capacity to meet demand. Kits? Don't know.

JSS has been busier than I thought!

JPK

 

[sgt rock]

to be fair on hemi installers-

camp crocker in arizona does quite a few- pretty much can say that here with out the flamers that exist on other boards.

:wings:
I do not pay any bandito tolls- that is why I have no redstar!