Expedition or Sequoia? (or GMC) Advice?

[unplannedbbq]

Looking for advice - we have an '86 westy. 2WD w/ stock engine, an LSD on the 4-speed, mild lift. We love the interior room & self-contained convenience for our family of 4. I've taken it apart and built everything back up. Since moving down south, we don't like the lack of AC & low power. I don't want to do an engine transplant.We're planning to keep the VW for a long time, but mostly use it for "within 200 mile tow" trips in cool weather.

Just sold a CRV, so I have some "toy" cash on hand. I'm looking at picking up a 01-06 4WD Sequoia or Expedition. I built the VW w/ modular designs, so I can swap gear (solar, compressor, edgestar, etc.) between vehicles.

Planned use for a full-size rig would be outer banks, national forest "4wd only" remote sites, and the once a year 3-4 week trips to mexico or western national parks. Mild mods only expected to truck.

Any recommendations or warnings as I look at used rigs?

I have a decent shop at home & can do most wrenching myself.

Thanks!

 

[kojackJKU]

I would go expedition. I have experience with a 2007 expy EL limited. Super plush and near bulletproof. I am not a Toyota fan at all so I cannot recommend them. I would look at the suburban as well.

 

[ryandavenport]

Looking for advice - we have an '86 westy. 2WD w/ stock engine, an LSD on the 4-speed, mild lift. We love the interior room & self-contained convenience for our family of 4. I've taken it apart and built everything back up. Since moving down south, we don't like the lack of AC & low power. I don't want to do an engine transplant.We're planning to keep the VW for a long time, but mostly use it for "within 200 mile tow" trips in cool weather.

Just sold a CRV, so I have some "toy" cash on hand. I'm looking at picking up a 01-06 4WD Sequoia or Expedition. I built the VW w/ modular designs, so I can swap gear (solar, compressor, edgestar, etc.) between vehicles.

Planned use for a full-size rig would be outer banks, national forest "4wd only" remote sites, and the once a year 3-4 week trips to mexico or western national parks. Mild mods only expected to truck.

Any recommendations or warnings as I look at used rigs?

I have a decent shop at home & can do most wrenching myself.

Thanks!

Out of your two choices, I would recommend the Sequoia, but Toyota's are boring. I think that there are SUVs out there that are much more fitting for the job. Any reason you have restricted yourself to the Expedition or Sequoia?


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[unplannedbbq]

Out of your two choices, I would recommend the Sequoia, but Toyota's are boring. I think that there are SUVs out there that are much more fitting for the job. Any reason you have restricted yourself to the Expedition or Sequoia?

I have friends w/ Tahoe XL, Suburban, and regular sized Tahoes. None of the GM trucks floated my boat (they all seemed to float too much as a matter of fact) - all of my buddies love their high-mileage family-hauling GMCs. Also have heard the "most" anecdotal stories re: transmission problems, electrical glitches, and component failures from folks I know that use them for soccer-mom duty (staying away from used escalades w/ 20" and no 4-lo!)

I'm open to being persuaded to look at something else for the job. (I'm also avoiding anything w/ power folding 3rd row seats, so I can unbolt and only use the 3rd row when grandparents are in town)

So far I like the ride of the sequoia better vs. the expedition. Expedition and Sequoia also seem to be right-sized for us: 2 kids, dog, fridge, rear AC, feels like you're driving your living room around... tent camping now and both models can support a monster 4-person roof tent for an out-west trip next summer. Can also comfortably sleep inside the back when solo or when we leave the kids at home.

I'm okay w/ "toyota boring," and I like that some tundra & land cruiser stuff can bolt on w/ the 4.7l and suspension. There are a bunch of 1-owner w/ full service records for sale within a hundred miles of me. I'm looking at it as a 4/3 4runner for 2/3 the price.

I like the expedition for cost... locals seem to be $1-2.5k less than comparable sequoia year/trim/mileage toytoas.

I'm likely looking at a 100-150k mile used truck. I plan to put ~$1-2k of maintenance work into anything I buy right off the start, followed up w/ dual batteries, stiffening up the suspension w/ a 1-2 inch max lift and adding AT tires. Unlikely to be towing anything, ever.

Remember I'm used to a roomy, slow, ~89 HP waterboxer, 29-year old VW, so any of these 6-13 year old modern beasts is going to feel like a brand new truck to me.

 

[ryandavenport]

I have friends w/ Tahoe XL, Suburban, and regular sized Tahoes. None of the GM trucks floated my boat (they all seemed to float too much as a matter of fact) - all of my buddies love their high-mileage family-hauling GMCs. Also have heard the "most" anecdotal stories re: transmission problems, electrical glitches, and component failures from folks I know that use them for soccer-mom duty (staying away from used escalades w/ 20" and no 4-lo!)

I'm open to being persuaded to look at something else for the job. (I'm also avoiding anything w/ power folding 3rd row seats, so I can unbolt and only use the 3rd row when grandparents are in town)

So far I like the ride of the sequoia better vs. the expedition. Expedition and Sequoia also seem to be right-sized for us: 2 kids, dog, fridge, rear AC, feels like you're driving your living room around... tent camping now and both models can support a monster 4-person roof tent for an out-west trip next summer. Can also comfortably sleep inside the back when solo or when we leave the kids at home.

I'm okay w/ "toyota boring," and I like that some tundra & land cruiser stuff can bolt on w/ the 4.7l and suspension. There are a bunch of 1-owner w/ full service records for sale within a hundred miles of me. I'm looking at it as a 4/3 4runner for 2/3 the price.

I like the expedition for cost... locals seem to be $1-2.5k less than comparable sequoia year/trim/mileage toytoas.

I'm likely looking at a 100-150k mile used truck. I plan to put ~$1-2k of maintenance work into anything I buy right off the start, followed up w/ dual batteries, stiffening up the suspension w/ a 1-2 inch max lift and adding AT tires. Unlikely to be towing anything, ever.

Remember I'm used to a roomy, slow, ~89 HP waterboxer, 29-year old VW, so any of these 6-13 year old modern beasts is going to feel like a brand new truck to me.

Have you looked at the Armada? Obviously I am a little biased since I work at Nissan, and if you compare to SUVs now, they are outdated, but back in the 2004-2007 area, they were really shaking up the market.


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[Root Moose]

I just went through this decision process and ended up in a 2001 Expedition 5.4L. The Toyotas of the same year were slugs in comparison and the rust, omg the rust... I'm in the rust belt though.

The Toyotas are two to three times the cost of the equivalent Expedition in this area. It just didn't make sense financially to go that route unless I was getting more truck - between the rust and the 2000lb less tow rating it wasn't for me.

I will say that the engine bay of the Toyota is much more accessible though. But coming from a Jeep Cherokee the Ford isn't that bad. The front of the Expedition seems shorter than the Toyota also, easier to see over. The price of that is that the engine is shoved under the windshield and harder to work on.

The Expedition interior is quite basic and dated but it is hard wearing and not a lot of stuff to go wrong. My boys really appreciate the separate AC controls in the back. I may be wrong but in my mind's eye the rear bench area of the Expedition is larger because the front seats can be moved forward more - at least for my seating position.

I looked at newer stuff but kept gravitating to the first gen 5.4 Expedition because it is well built, heavy drive train for the class of vehicle, and I've always really liked the look of them.

I was looking at UZJ100 Landcruisers (LX470) as well but came to pretty much the same conclusions since they have twice the "Toyota tax" in this area. Also, having been stranded with a somewhat rare vehicle in the past I appreciate the availability of common parts, on the shelf, ready to install.

If you go with a first gen Expedition I'd recommend the 1999-2002 trucks with the improved engine power and make sure you get a 5.4l. Ignore the fuel economy ratings. I'm getting ~20 mpg on flat highway at 110 km/h cruise - at least I was until I installed some 34" tires yesterday. We'll see what that yields.

I looked into the second generation Expeditions but I really don't like the dash and it didn't feel "trucky" enough for me. The IRS was not a decision factor. The 3V V8 seems to have a bit of a bad reputation but I expect most of the issues are fixed/understood/worked around at this point. It wasn't a decider for me. You can avoid that engine by sticking with the earlier second gen but if I was going to buy a second gen I'd get the 3V for the extra power and deal with whatever issues there may be.

I didn't look into the second gen Sequoia. I don't like the look of them.

The Toyotas are good trucks, but in this market they didn't make sense to my usage. I flirted with importing a truck from the southern US and the price difference was still there but not as large so maybe a Toyota can work for you.

HTH

 

[Sonoran Explorer]

At the end of the day i think it comes down to waht you are most comfortable with. I'm part of the group you described as the guys that love their big GM SUVs. i have a 2004 suburban with 180k miles. Ive had it since 2007 with 46k miles. It has been nearly bulletproof. The only things i have replaced are the fuel and water pumps and the alternator (all in 2015) and i expected these to go at some point, just like tires and brakes. These were the big three for me that cause me to lose sleep and the plus for me was that none of them stranded me - i got lucky in that respect. At nearly 200k miles, the all-original tranny is still running strong although i know it wont last forever, but from the research i have it should be a pretty cheap replace when its time. That leads to the other aspect for me - i spend a lot of time roaming mexican beaches (gulf of california) and the full size suvs (GM and ford) are everywhere down there so i know that i stand a better chance if getting my vehicle fixed if i do have a problem. As a point of comparison, my brother in law drives a 97 LC (200k miles) and just spent $1500 chasing electrical gremlins that did strand him, but he gets offers all the time from people to buy is LC (including the mechanic that fixed it this time). No one's chasing me down to make me an offer on my suburban, but i guess thats their loss

 

[unplannedbbq]

At the end of the day i think it comes down to waht you are most comfortable with. ... That leads to the other aspect for me - i spend a lot of time roaming mexican beaches (gulf of california) and the full size suvs (GM and ford) are everywhere down there so i know that i stand a better chance if getting my vehicle fixed if i do have a problem. As a point of comparison, my brother in law drives a 97 LC (200k miles) and just spent $1500 chasing electrical gremlins that did strand him, but he gets offers all the time from people to buy is LC (including the mechanic that fixed it this time). No one's chasing me down to make me an offer on my suburban, but i guess thats their loss

I am a fan of parts availability, be it in Baja, NOLA or North Carolina... I'll add the GM siblings back in the midst. There are a couple Yukon XL near by. I think the Tahoe/Yukon is tight in the 2nd row when they crammed in a 3rd row, but the XL and Suburban are mighty spacious.

Thanks all for the input - every bit helps as I compare my local options.

Is there anything folks would watch out for when shopping for a Yukon/Expedition/Sequoia w/ 100K+? (any favorite sites listing buyers' checklists/known issues? I'm used to the treasure trove of info found on TheSamba.com for my VW.)

 

[Tundraexplorer]

Have you looked at a land cruiser? The build quality is really a step above, as well as accessories and off road capability. If you are only looking at the expedition and toyota, i would go with the toyota, just look at consumer reports, I'm sure everyone has friends who have had stuff break down but there is a reason toyota is rated higher with reliability. Depending on your budget, it's possible to get a rust free 100 series cruiser with less then 150,000 for about $9k and they are incredibly reliable and capable.

 

[legendaryandrew]

+1 for GMT800 Sub/Tahoe. GM makes arguably the best engine/trans in the domestic market, plus parts are everywhere. Just level it, and get something like Cognito's upgraded steering tie rods, and a locker, you'll be good to go.

 

[rayra]

Family of four, long / far trips, no heavy duty wheeling, bigger is better. Whichever gives you more cargo room. 'Floaty' is good, when 99% of your miles are on the highway. Our Tahoe has a split 3rd row, can install one seat of both, both usually hang in our garage. My Sub has a 3rd row bench, it's my garage couch, unless it is needed. Both have a huge amount of room. The Sub has 12-20cu' more room than the Sequoia in all three seating / cargo configs. For less than 0.5mpg less than the Tahoe. But I can't break above 15mpg in either no matter how mellow I drive and that's with the 5.3L Vortec, 1/2-ton both. If you can get an honest 17 out of the Sequoia that's about 15% better fuel economy. ~~$150 diff in fuel costs on a major trip running say 7000mi

And 'floaty' is pretty much dependent on where and how the individual vehicle was driven. The missus' Tahoe at 150k mi still rides like it was new. My 3yr older Sub at 118k mi wallows. It was a Mom's taxi and hard used. Brakes and tires were worn the hell out when I got it, springs and shocks respond unevenly over major road bumps. I'm replacing both springs and shocks soon, once I decide wth I'm doing. I want a couple inches lift out of it at the same time. And I expect any 'floaty' to be gone when I do it.

Aren't the Expedition motors the ones that are prone to blowing spark plugs out? Or am I thinking of something else?

 

[RoyJ]

Two specs where the Expedition shine, and are often overlooked on expedition platforms, are: chassis strength and payload.

The Toyota uses a relatively weak open c-channel frame, the Ford (after 2003) has a fully boxed hydro formed frame that's 70% stiffer than the old c-channel frame of the previous F150 (which is comparable to the Tundra/Sequoia).

Expedition has (probably as a result of above) nearly 200 lbs more payload: 1615 vs 1430. If you like to pack heavy, with high CG (big roof tent), then the Expedition is a more "solid" platform, stiff suspension and IRS.

Here's a render of the Expy's rear suspension, I've seen them in person and it looks very beefy:

The Sequoia is not a bad truck, I just think the first Gen is not built as tough as the Expedition, or its big brother the LC (which had a fully boxed frame since the 70's)

 

[kojackJKU]

The only issue I have had with my suburban is the transmission. That was my fault because I I was hammerin' on it pretty good. 900 dollars for parts and labour, a new shift kit for 50. and its working perfect. My a/c is not working atm, my fault again for not driving it enough and the compressor seized. I am sure I can get another fairly cheap for it. Toyota translated into Japanese means rust bucket.

 

[CRolandLJ]

Various members of my family have had suburbans/tahoes/yukons/avalanches from this era and they never had any major issues like a lot of people allude to. I'm sure you could find a nice 4wd or even Z71 suburban in your price range and be very happy. There is a ton of them out there, at least here in Texas. You gotta think about the fact that the vast majority of owners are never on the internet discussing their vehicles or complaining so issues get blown out of proportion. The only issues I've seen widespread in these years (I'm talking like 99-06) of GM SUVs are their electronic buttons on the radio/AC lose their paint after lots of touching and lots of speedometers and other gauges will quit working. Little electronic things fail here and there with any car - especially the interior so the more simple the better for older vehicles IMO. There's a reason the 5.3 engine is becoming a super common swap in older jeeps and LC's - there are tons of parts and its generally quite reliable.

Good luck in your search!

 

[justcuz]

I'm pretty sure the 1st generation Sequoia has a boxed frame. Both are good vehicles as are the GM products. The Tahoe I believe is a bit smaller interior wise. I know the first generation Tahoe is smaller outside than an Expedition.
Any aftermarket stuff for the Expedition would be the same as an F150 of the same vintage except for the rear springs. Maybe Moog makes a cargo coil for the Expedition. I would avoid the rear air suspension for simplicity sake.
Toyota has a reliability factor that is touted quite frequently by many, but I own 2 Suburbans with over 250,000 miles on them with no major work done to the engine or trans. Both probably see 1,000 to 2,000 miles a year of off road mileage.
Land Cruisers are pricey and my personal opinion is when the 100 series went to independent front suspension, they can easily be equaled be a Tahoe, Expedition or Sequoia for a lot less money. The weakest link for me in comparison is the GM 8.5/8.6 rear axle compared to the Expeditions 9.75 rear axle. I have never heard of anyone having problems with the Expedition rear axle. We have a family friend in Wyoming that had a first generation Eddie Bauer Expedition, he has a large ranch and drove it everywhere. It was a nice vehicle. The premium you would pay for a Toyota can pay for a few improvements in an Expedition and you would have a very nice vehicle.
Lastly everyone talks about Toyota quality, I will throw this out there, the 4.7 V8 has a timing belt that needs to be serviced every 90,000 miles. Fords uses timing chains with tensioner that occasionally need to be replaced, if certain symptoms present themselves. GM uses timing chains and are non interference OHV engines.
Would you rather have a belt or chains?