Expo Vehicle MPG

[rruff]

Just to clarify: I'm not asking about cost. It's about emissions and the impact of that on the environment.

Yes, I could drive less and stay at camp longer. That's not how I like to explore. Frankly, I find "camping" boring.

Just stay home and watch football then... 🤪

As I recall your earlier speculations involved a huge camper that was designed to house a bunch of people. That wouldn't be very good for exploring. A motorcycle would be good though, and an electric one would be quiet and low emission.

What do you actually want?

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Just stay home and watch football then... 🤪

As I recall your earlier speculations involved a huge camper that was designed to house a bunch of people. That wouldn't be very good for exploring. A motorcycle would be good though, and an electric one would be quiet and low emission.

What do you actually want?

Certainly couldn't comfortably take a family on an electric motorcycles from the US Northeast to the US West Coast!

If money were no object, these days I'd probably scoop up a Rossmonster Baja hard-side popup. Seems like the best balance of tradeoffs.

 

[Todd n Natalie]

Not sure what your budget is but what about something like a VW ID Buzz, Rivian, Lightning or EV SUV and pack up a ground tent?

Maybe something like a trapper tent could offer lots of space?

If you can wait a bit, the upcoming RamCharger is an EV pickup with a gas generator range extender. Sounds like it should have good payload too.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Not sure what your budget is but what about something like a VW ID Buzz, Rivian, Lightning or EV SUV and pack up a ground tent?

Maybe something like a trapper tent could offer lots of space?

If you can wait a bit, the upcoming RamCharger is an EV pickup with a gas generator range extender. Sounds like it should have good payload too.

View attachment 859858

Yea, that's kind of the rub, I think.

I can have the comfort of a full-sized vehicle, or the MPG of the "rough it" experience. Can't have both!

 

[rruff]

If money were no object, these days I'd probably scoop up a Rossmonster Baja hard-side popup. Seems like the best balance of tradeoffs.

I think my big pickup and big slide in camper suggestion is still viable then. Buy good-used and see how you like it. If you want to explore more technical areas, you can park the camper easily.

 

[plh]

If I were to build a 1/2 ton it would be a 3.0l diesel GM. Buddy of mine has a 2022 Silverado 1500 crew cab 4x4 with a topper and he claims 34 mpg highway @68 mph, 22mpg highway @78 mph loaded.

 

[Todd n Natalie]

If I were to build a 1/2 ton it would be a 3.0l diesel GM. Buddy of mine has a 2022 Silverado 1500 crew cab 4x4 with a topper and he claims 34 mpg highway @68 mph 22mpg highway @78 mph loaded.

Yes, they are fuel efficient however, if the goal is to use them for towing / hauling purposes I understand their payloads are on the lower side. So something to be mindful of. Never seen any door stickers so when I've read 'low' it's not been followed up with any context.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

That’s been the conundrum for many of us ever we started looking at camping rigs.

A long time ago we had to decide to not worry about gas prices and just bite the bullet on those costs, to be able to have the necessary 3/4 ton HD or 1 ton truck with enough capacity to carry the big campers we wanted to go out exploring in.

This summer and fall we covered about 5000 miles and a couple of times found regular gas at less than three dollars a gallon ….and that was traveling through the far west. It might not be a surprise to see those “low” prices in the midwest or southeast but in the far west that definitely was a happy discovery.

The big challenge (budget wise) traveling in the west is to try to stay out of California, Oregon and Washington because gas prices are so much higher there. (And no mods, this is not a political comment, it is just a comment on the difference in fuel prices in the US🤨).

Anyway basically, if you want a roomy and well outfitted rig, you have to bite that bullet and factor in the higher cost of fuel for any of your big trips as you budget your total expenses.

Planning ahead for gas costs can be very unpredictable because of unexpected price fluctuations, so you also have to be ready to cut back on other expenses if necessary, to afford the high cost of your gas consumption.

Philosophically, we have had to decide to just to treat that expense like the cost of everything else involved in travel. The price per gallon for propane has doubled, new tires are crazy expensive, food costs are insane, and camping fees in some areas have tripled over the last 10 years.

Really, other than staying home, there’s just not much we can do about this if we want to get out with our family and explore the grandeur of North America while we’re still healthy enough to experience some of these more remote areas by hiking, biking, or in a canoe or kayak, etc.

Cannot stress enough: the mpg question was about environmental impact, not cost.

 

[plh]

Yes, they are fuel efficient however, if the goal is to use them for towing / hauling purposes I understand their payloads are on the lower side. So something to be mindful of. Never seen any door stickers so when I've read 'low' it's not been followed up with any context.

Yeah, Payload is 1,870 lbs and towing capacity is 9,500 lbs. There is a trailering package that bumps the towing up to 1,970 PL / 13,300 Tow lbs depending on doors/bed length configuration.

 

[Todd n Natalie]

Yeah, Payload is 1,870 lbs and towing capacity is 9,500 lbs. There is a trailering package that bumps the towing up to 1,970 PL / 13,300 Tow lbs depending on doors/bed length configuration.

Oh wow! That's pretty decent for a 1/2 ton with a diesel.

 

[IdaSHO]

Different strokes for different folks, but if MPG is a legitimate driving force, then overall COST really is.
There are plenty of ways to manage cost, but MPG is likely one of the last things to consider, unless you are comparing a Westfalia to an Earthroamer.

Personally, we sided with simple, robust, and reliable. MPG .... who cares. So we went with a second hand 6.2 Ford gasser.
Though I did add in there.... light enough to survive on a "light" truck, be it a 3/4 or 1-ton as apposed to 450/550+
This simplifies a host of issues, like suspension, tires, ride, registration/insurance etc....

Another option, is one that we actively have in the works is a TOAD.
We chose a second gen Tracker/Vitara, but to each his own.

This gives you the option to make base camp, and explore further or simply make supply runs with the (MUCH) higher MPG toad.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

That could lead to much more research.

For ICE vehicles a few areas come that to mind:

Regulatory Standards. A study of the recent history of EPA, CARB etc emission and GHG standards and what class vehicle they apply to could be useful.
For eg I think 2017+ new emission regs were applied. That might make a difference to you when choosing a 2016 vs 2017 model year. Or, for eg, is flex fuel or E85 important ? If so when did that come in.

Compliance: Where and how can you have a prospective vehicle for purchase tested for emissions output. Are there DIY handheld devices you could acquire to check periodically ?

Vehicle Equipment and Features. Do some prospective vehicles have feature that would contribute to your goal ? For eg. stop-start, live fuel consumption information, enough interior cargo room to not need added exterior storage, low resistance tires, etc.
For trailers, frontal area and drag. How does towing a prospective trailer change emissions for a prospective TV.

User Operation and Practices. Could research best practices re your criteria for such things as idling, engine warm up duration, acceleration rate, ambient temperature best operational limits etc.
They're may be devices that could help monitor results, such a combustion byproduct readers, temperature gauges etc that could be installed.
Speed has been mentioned, how about terrain, time of day. Do certain vehicles produce more emissions climbing hills than others etc.

On that note future route planning might help re reducing emissions - like hyper milling

As for EVs, that's a whole 'nuther thing. Just considering operating, one could research recharging power generation source and there own emissions contributions.
Again, future route planning could help the cause.

That's just some ideas, and just the tip of it I'm sure.

Lot's to research and consider ahead of you. Good luck with your decision !

Not sure if you've ever watched The Good Place, but one of the core themes was about how we basically never have the full set of information we need to make fully ethical, educated decisions.

Reading your list of research questions feels a bit like that. Unless I run a bunch of tests I literally cannot run, there's no way to really know. It's not practical.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Different strokes for different folks, but if MPG is a legitimate driving force, then overall COST really is.
There are plenty of ways to manage cost, but MPG is likely one of the last things to consider, unless you are comparing a Westfalia to an Earthroamer.

Personally, we sided with simple, robust, and reliable. MPG .... who cares. So we went with a second hand 6.2 Ford gasser.
Though I did add in there.... light enough to survive on a "light" truck, be it a 3/4 or 1-ton as apposed to 450/550+
This simplifies a host of issues, like suspension, tires, ride, registration/insurance etc....

Another option, is one that we actively have in the works is a TOAD.
We chose a second gen Tracker/Vitara, but to each his own.

This gives you the option to make base camp, and explore further or simply make supply runs with the (MUCH) higher MPG toad.

I appreciate you so much, Kenny, but I feel like you didn't read what I wrote. It's cool, you've given more far more than I've ever given you back in return.

But this question was not (as I've noted a few times) about the COST of fuel. It's about the environmental impact of that fuel's consumption.

I also recognize that the crowd here skews heavy towards "meh who cares," so probably the wrong audience to have asked this question to anyways.

 

[IdaSHO]

I appreciate you so much, Kenny, but I feel like you didn't read what I wrote. It's cool, you've given more far more than I've ever given you back in return.

But this question was not (as I've noted a few times) about the COST of fuel. It's about the environmental impact of that fuel's consumption.

I also recognize that the crowd here skews heavy towards "meh who cares," so probably the wrong audience to have asked this question to anyways.

Actually I did. Regardless of what you want to believe, all of this is a compromise. Hence the "meh who cares" <--- your words mentality.
While at face value it seems short minded, it is anything but. And with regards to gasser vs diesel fuel consumption and emissions, the entire thing is essentially a wash...

MPG, CO2 production, BTU per gallon, operating costs.... It all washes. Personally, I prefer the simplicity and lower operating/repair costs of the gasser.

But at the end of the day, the ONLY way to consume and pollute less is to drive less. Its really that simple.

 

[NevadaLover]

Just to clarify: I'm not asking about cost. It's about emissions and the impact of that on the environment.

Yes, I could drive less and stay at camp longer. That's not how I like to explore. Frankly, I find "camping" boring.

My favorite camping rig is a big block powered suburban, 450 miles on a 40 gallon fillup is extremely rare.

That being said, the GF and I have seen more of the western US and Mexico than most ever will, and for what it's worth, neither of us worry about costs or emissions, why are you so worried about something that you cannot affect when multiple countries with WAY more population pollute more than the US does?