F-350 winch selections

[Antichrist]

M15000 - $1,600
M8000 - $600
I could buy a lot of rigging of needed capacity and extensions for the $1,000 price difference.

Are people really in that much of a hurry when traveling that half the line speed when winching now and then is going to make that much of a difference?

I'm not saying people shouldn't go large if they want to, but for the vast majority the 1.5 x vehicle weight rule of thumb can be ignored with thoughtful planning.

 

[underdrive]

Are people really in that much of a hurry when traveling that half the line speed when winching now and then is going to make that much of a difference?

We run screw-drive Ramseys with snatch blocks - talk about LOW line speed there! But the way I see it, slow line gives you more time to react if things start getting sideways on you.

Also we've noticed that the the whole 1.5xGVW thing only becomes important when your driveline cannot assist the winch and you're pretty much dragging the whole truck as a dead weight. More often than not for us the situation has been such that the winch is assisting the wheels and it didn't take much winching to get things moving properly, this has been the case during both self-recovery and when pulling someone else out of a bind.

Feet-forward is how I'd always install any winch if the bumper allows it, regardless of what the manufacturer says - IMHO there's no good reason to place those bolts in single shear if you have the option for zero-shear (and tension too) conditions instead.

 

[Antichrist]

We run screw-drive Ramseys with snatch blocks - talk about LOW line speed there! But the way I see it, slow line gives you more time to react if things start getting sideways on you.

Yeah, my two favorite winches are my Ramsey RE10000 and my Koenig PTO's, so I know about slow.
IMO, unless you're in a winch competition, slow is better. For the reason you said.

Also we've noticed that the the whole 1.5xGVW thing only becomes important when your driveline cannot assist the winch and you're pretty much dragging the whole truck as a dead weight. More often than not for us the situation has been such that the winch is assisting the wheels and it didn't take much winching to get things moving properly, this has been the case during both self-recovery and when pulling someone else out of a bind.

That's one of the downsides of an electric winch vs PTO or hydraulic, needing (or feeling the need for) wheel assist. That tears up the ground more and it's way too easy to shock load the rope and rigging. But even without wheel assist, if you rig things right, 1.5x is rarely, if ever, needed.
But, if you want to be able to do single line pulls even in the most extreme stuck, especially over a short distance (where your winch capacity is handicapped) then yeah, at least 1.5x would apply.

 

[Paul B.]

I would think the 1.5x GVW rule bears out under the "it's always nice to have a little more machine than you think you need" theory.

 

[xbox73]

Plus the winch capacity is only spec'd for the last layer of rope on the drum.

Attached below is a table for the Warn M15000 I have detailing the number of layers or rope on the drum vs. rated line pull in lbs.:

1 - 15000
2 - 13890
3 - 11520
4 - 9840

So if you're just winching 10 feet to get over an obstacle from the bumper of a vehicle just on the other side of the obstacle, you're probably looking at the last figure.

 

[spencyg]

I just weighed my rig and sit "comfortably" at 8400lbs unloaded but full of fuel. Once topped off with water and provisions and loaded with a passenger or 2, I could easily be sitting at 9500lbs. Both of my winches are 8000lb units, one being an old Warn and the other an old Ramsey REP. With snatch blocks and rigging I am not worried about the size of my winches. Both carry 150ft of cable, and even halving it give me 75 foot pulls. Further, before the winch comes out you should be using your traction mats (which you could afford by buying a smaller winch and rigging instead of a monster winch). The other thing to think about is that, as a general statement, your winch will only pull as much as your anchor will hold. Depending on where you're at, that 16,500lb winch will never get up to its rated capacity if you keep pulling trees or rocks out of the ground. Recovery is never a "one tool for all situations" thing. Your "kit" should account for all variables that you may encounter, and spending $2k for a single winch that only works in some situations doesn't sound very financially efficient...

SG

 

[underdrive]

That's one of the downsides of an electric winch vs PTO or hydraulic, needing (or feeling the need for) wheel assist. That tears up the ground more and it's way too easy to shock load the rope and rigging. But even without wheel assist, if you rig things right, 1.5x is rarely, if ever, needed.
But, if you want to be able to do single line pulls even in the most extreme stuck, especially over a short distance (where your winch capacity is handicapped) then yeah, at least 1.5x would apply.

Our winch use usually comes from the wheels not having enough traction to get us where we wanna go, since these are more or less camping rigs on a "normal" trail (as opposed to dedicate competition vehicles on a dedicate competition course) it's not always possible to determine we'll need the winch before the forward motion stops and by that point the ground is already bearing the tire marks. What follows next is shifting into the lowest range and gear available, and running the engine barely off idle (we have manual throttle control for just such situations) - as long as there is no pulley block involved we are usually able to match vehicle speed as powered by the wheels fairly close to vehicle speed as pulled by the winch, thus there is very little wheel spin involved and the impact on the ground is as minimal as a 10k or larger truck can have. Having at the bare minimum limited-slip diffs front and rear also helps greatly as we don't get into the situation where one tire just sits there and looks pretty while the other one is spinning at twice the desired speed digging up a rut and slinging stuff everywhere. But yes, you are absolutely right, depending on how one operates the throttle it's stupid easy to actually hurt your winching setup instead of helping it hence why we like doing things at snail's pace

Plus the winch capacity is only spec'd for the last layer of rope on the drum.

So if you're just winching 10 feet to get over an obstacle from the bumper of a vehicle just on the other side of the obstacle, you're probably looking at the last figure.

This is where the pulley block comes in really handy, not only does it double your line pull whatever it is but it also allows you to maybe drop a layer down on the drum this resulting in you straining the winch even less. Personally I always pulley-block when I can, it makes for a slow progress but it's just easier on pretty much everything but the anchor.

 

[Paul B.]

In the end we went with the Warn ZEON 12000#. It seemed like the middle selection. Hope to not really need it too much.