F 450 flatbed camper build

[dhackney]

Eddie,

If I had it to do over again I would have no winches and instead have the European truck hitches front and rear and carry a corresponding tow bar. That would work for us because we're exclusively overseas. If you are staying domestic, then that would probably not be a viable solution if you needed to be self-extracting at all times.

You could save the weight of one winch if you made it removable and could mount one front and rear. Your net savings won't be that much because the wire/cable to power both ends will weigh a lot more than the winch.

You can use Anderson Power Systems high amp DC connectors (see our biuldup site for info) or standard fork lift battery connectors if you pick the removable strategy.

Be SURE to use adequate size cable for your winch. Use a guide or a computer program to calculate the required cable size for your cable length. If you scrimp to save cost or weight you will end up melting the cable when you really need it.

Initial amp draw on your winch will probably be 300-400 amps, minimum. Check the documentation.

Doug

 

[mhiscox]

If I had it to do over again I would have no winches and instead have the European truck hitches front and rear and carry a corresponding tow bar.

That's the way it is on my Mog--pintles front and rear and a rigid tow bar carried on the rear of the frame. (In the desert, they'll sometimes put the tow bar between the rear pintle of Mog 1 and the front pintle of Mog 2, ending up with semi-unstoppable, though damn slow, faux 8x8.) My Mog also carries a steel tow cable wrapped on the front bumper for those times the tow bar would be too short or, more commonly, when it's needed to recover someone else.

Of course, a lot of this "no winch" approach has to do with the gigantic size and weight (and cost, complexity and poor availability) of the type of winch needed to self-recover a big Mog camper. On my smaller Sprinter camper, we did put receivers on the front and rear bumpers and put a Warn onto a winch carrier. (BTW, one big advantage of the winch-on-a-carrier is that you can leave the whole thing behind when you're not going to need it.)

The problem, of course, is that the size of the winch you can use is limited by the weight you can move from front to back. However, with my truck (and probably yours, too) you're unlikely to want to carry a winch big enough to recover the truck without doubling the winch line, and once you're resigned to doing that, then a "waddleable" sub-10K winch will work.

Doug's mentions about the current draw and size of wire are spot on. Costs a fortune to correctly cable up a rear winch.

 

[dhackney]

Winches vs. Tow Bar

Better read this before you decide to ditch the winches: http://www.hackneys.com/travel/ecuador/instantkarma.pdf

I am suitably chagrined.

 

[kerry]

Better read this before you decide to ditch the winches: http://www.hackneys.com/travel/ecuador/instantkarma.pdf

I am suitably chagrined.

If the whole universe was that just, it would be a better place.

How would you assess the differences between electric winches and manual winches like Tirfors or Big Hauls given your recent experience. It seems they would be considerably lighter and the bigger versions may have accomplished the task?

 

[btggraphix]

Better read this before you decide to ditch the winches: http://www.hackneys.com/travel/ecuador/instantkarma.pdf

I am suitably chagrined.

Nice one! Being an owner of a 16,500 Warn winch on my bumper that has been used exactly once (and that was to move a boulder on my property....) and second-guessing as to whether the bumper and winch are REALLY worth having. So many people argue against them (just see that long thread about them.)

I'm glad to see that a single "glad I had THAT" moment was enough to change your opinion.

Capt Eddie, I look forward to following your build thread. I have trouble keeping up with everything on this forum, but there are a few I really enjoy, and those are mostly the expedition camper threads. I'm not sure how much I can contribute, but I'll try to do what I can.

I also have a stock Lance truck camper....loaded onto a flatbed which is mated to a Kodiak C4500 truck with many storage boxes. I bought it basically as-is and have plenty of futrue plans/dreams, but for now we are using it as-is and trying to wait and learn as much as we can (and pay for what we bought) before really making much in the way of major changes.

I am also very interested in seeing pictures. If the only thing I can contribute is to offer to post them for you, perhaps that would help. If interested, PM me and I'll give you my direct E-mail and I'll post up your pictures and/or show you how to do it.

A few points of DHackneys I especially agree to:

"4. Install interior lights in each box. They are very handy and you will never regret having them."

(I have that on my to-do list)

"6. Standard adhesive backed rubber weatherstrip works very well for sealing the box doors. Ours has been in for 18 months and is still going strong."

(mine use that, but the doors fold down and the water can run in when I open them. I wonder if doors that swing UP might be better, but then again, gas assist and what-not might add to the complexity too much.)

I have comment about this one though;

"1. Unless you have specific things you need to store in them, create two or more shorter boxes rather than one 96" long. It's better to expose as few contents as possible when accessing external storage boxes. "

(I really like having two doors on my long upper boxes, but by having one long compartment I can store downhill skiis, fishing rods and other long items in there. I kind of wish I had a rear opening to one of them for items up to 8 feet long, but with my camper on I can't get to the rear of that box anyway.)

Anyway, good luck!

 

[Capt Eddie]

I was able to order all of the aluminum boxes for the truck today. They should ship tomorrow. No idea what shipping will cost for 14 boxes for 60 x 18 x 18 to 24 x 14 x 16. When they get here the true build will begin. I would like to have the truck ready for a trip to Excello Missouri on Nov 13. I decided to get some boxes to put on the 36 x 96 inch back deck. I have decided to mount the spare tire in a rack like the Hackney rig and put an aluminum box front on it to blend with the others. I will be mounting spare compressor tanks under the bed and behind the boxes. I will hard mount a 12volt compressor and run lines to the connecter and gauges.

 

[dhackney]

Eddie,

RE: air lines

1. Put air connections on both sides of the truck, midway between the axles, so you can reach all wheels with one secton of coil extension.
2. Use 3/8" line so you will have enough air volume for your impact wrench.
3. If you have a rear entrance camper, put a connection back there so you can use it to blow the dust off at the end of the day.
4. Even if you don´t have them now, run an air line to the cab so you can add air seats later.
5. Use double stainless steel hose clamps at every connection.
6. Carry spare connectors (quick disconnect). Make sure your spares match the type you are putting on the truck, e.g. industrial or automotive or universal.
7. Carry spare hose clamps and nipple connectors as well as your standard size air line and small line for the air seats.
8. Prepare to chase leaks. We´ve always got a slow leak somewhere.
9. You will need a three foot / one meter braided stainless steel section of hose at the compressor output. Plastic will melt off. Voice of experience...
10. Bring several different pressure levels of compressor cut off switch. If your compressor is like ours, it will not make full pressure at high altitudes, so you will need to install a lower pressure cut-off switch if you are going high.
11. Bring some spare brass parts used in your system, plus appropriate sealing tape or compound.
12. Mount your regulator, pressure guage, cutoff switch, etc., in a location where they are easily accessible.
13. Bring spare intake filters for your compressor.

Doug

 

[dhackney]

If the whole universe was that just, it would be a better place.

How would you assess the differences between electric winches and manual winches like Tirfors or Big Hauls given your recent experience. It seems they would be considerably lighter and the bigger versions may have accomplished the task?

I am unfamiliar with the manual winches. As with all aspects of this mode of travel, I remain under-researched and marginally-informed. I only had a few weeks to research and design our truck, so there is a LOT out there that I do not know about.

All I can offer is that if they were suitably geared to the level my wife could use them, then I guess they possibly could be viable. The electric winch system is very heavy, so any alternative would be good.

Doug

 

[dhackney]

(mine use that, but the doors fold down and the water can run in when I open them. I wonder if doors that swing UP might be better, but then again, gas assist and what-not might add to the complexity too much.)

Ours open at the top and swing down make a shelf/work surface. The chains detach easily so they can swing down. I cannot count the times they have been useful in that mode. Unless you live in Seattle or a rainforest, I think the top open design is very much worth it.

 

[Capt Eddie]

Great news. Shipping from Ohio to Louisiana is Only $160 for all the boxes. They shipped today but no E.T.A. I hope to have my work cut out for this weekend. I took the 110 motor off a construction style compressor today when I found out the pump was shot. I will use a 12 volt pump and run the outlet into the twin holding tanks mounted under the truck. The outlets and gauge will be mounted in a box.

 

[Capt Eddie]

The build can really start today. The trucking company called and the boxes will be here by 10:00. Yesterday I was able to fabricate the rear receiver hitches. I only had two testerday so I have one mounted center for normal towing and I will have two more. One on each side of the 34 inch frame. We decided that we needed to take bikes with us so this way we can have options on where to put the rack. The idea Stacys came up with was the mount the rake in back and walk up the stairs from the passenger side. With a 3 foot deck that seems to be a good idea. But we will still be able to put them on the front receiver if we have kennel on the back. I was going to hang the spare in a rack like the Hackney rig with the door even with the other boxes. But if I do that I have to put it behind the cab at the center of the truck and it will hang down 5 inches lower then anything else on the truck. Just waiting to hang up on something. I am still using the rack idea but I will let the box come out one inch farther then the others. This will allow the tire to back up to the frame instead of being droped below the frame. Stacys has worked on the pictures but they come out to big.

 

[Capt Eddie]

Topic change. Since I will have a generator should i get a full size compresser and hard mount it? Or get a 12 volt and mount two 5 gal storage tanks? 110 generator or 12 volt?

 

[btggraphix]

some pictures of my boxes....

In case this is helpful, here are some shots I took of how my boxes are hung.

Sorry, I didn't shrink some of these... will repost as soon as I do!

OK, try again....

Strapping goes between the bed support channels and all-thread goes from the straps to the brackets below...

due to my desire to be able to mount chains, I am thinking about changing this some.....such as coming straight up from the bottom, and then out

maybe....8 inches up from the bottom? Something high enough to be out of the way of chains.

Here are a couple of shots of the air-tank:

Not sure exactly how big this tank is, but I could probably use a bigger tank (or a better compressor) as I can't take 8 lug nuts off without waiting

for air to recover.

Clearly the pressure gauge should be in a box of some sort instead of hanging out here, but I guess it made the trip to SA and back located here. It

is way up under the bed.

Here's one of the two quick disconnect air lines - one on each side, recessed in beteen the cab and headache rack:

As far as 12V versus 120V AC - my thinking is to make it as simple as possible. I would go with DC, even though a comparable compressor costs much more for DC, but if all else fails, as long as you have a car battery the DC compressor will work, even if you have to jumper it from another vehicle - but a generator-based compressor could fail you if anything goes wrong with the genny. I suppose you could pirate the parts off a small AC compressor and mount it to a plate and store it in a box, then have a flexible outlet hose with a disconnect run into one of your airlines to the on-board tank. Best of both worlds?

I should have taken a few more of the top boxes themselves.....one thing I think he did well/cool, was to customize them to take up all the space he

could. He left litte recesses out of them to allow for the camper tie-downs.

Anyway, hope this helps, let me know if you'd like any other pictures.

 

[adrenaline503]

Where did you get your boxes from? I am trying to find a cheaper source than what I have found locally.

 

[dhackney]

Eddie,

I vote DC on the compressor.

In my experience, you don't want to be reliant on multiple systems to accomplish the task of a tire change.

Doug