F150 - 2.7L vs 3.5L vs 5.0L

[Grassland]

Here is active recalls for my friends 2017 3.5 with 10 speed.

I'd personally go 2.7 PP but I'm also not intending to ever tow more than 5000# or haul more than 1800-1900#.
Note that much of these aren't specific to the 3.5 though.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Has the timing chain and phaser issues been solved or addressed in the Eco engines?

Funny that you ask that. I just got the "customer satisfaction" letter for my 2018 3.5 EB Canadian-spec (XTR) CCSB.

I never got the "rattle" that some people mention but I'm going to have the repair done anyway.

 

[Martinjmpr]

So here's a data point for you:

2018 F150 XLT CCSB, 3.5/10 speed. 3.31 rear end with 7,000lb GVWR package.

XTR package (a Canadian package that includes chrome bumpers and door handles as well as wheels)

Also has the FX4 package with bigger tires and E-locker

Swapped tires in January and went up one size, from 275/65/18 to 275/70/18 (same width but about 1" bigger diameter.) Tires are General Grabber ATX

Towing package with trailer-backup control (never used because I already know how to back up a trailer) and built in trailer brake control (which is great! No more knee buster hanging below the dash.)

This is my DD and also our tow vehicle for a travel trailer (~3900lb R-Pod 179.) However, I've been working at home since March of 2020 so the truck mostly gets driven either on weekend/home depot type runs, or on long trips pulling the trailer.

This year we did a total of 15 camping trips at sites ranging from 36 miles away to 500 miles away. Towing total was around 6,000 miles.

In that time my overall average was around 11 MPG. Now, keep in mind that a lot of that was towing a trailer, and also that I live in Colorado where pulling the trailer over an 11,000' pass is something I might do twice in a weekend.

Non-towing MPG seems to run 15 - 17 for the most part, but again I'd point out that I'm mostly doing suburban or around-town driving. We don't do a lot of long trips in the truck.

I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how so many folks here are getting these great MPG numbers. Mine have been a little bit disappointing. Yes, there have been one or two trips where I've gotten 20 MPG but only under absolutely ideal conditions.

Back when I was driving to and from work every day (10 mile commute each way) I rarely got better than 16 MPG (which is still respectable for a full-sized crew cab truck and is still a significant improvement over the ~12 - 13 MPG I was getting on the Suburban under the same driving conditions.)

On the occasions where I take a long drive in the F-150 WITHOUT the trailer, 18 MPG seems to be about the best I can do. Sometimes it will creep up to 19 but it doesn't stay there long.

On a recent camping trip to Kansas, of all places, I got the worst MPG I've ever gotten in the truck. On flat Kansas roads bucking head- and cross-winds, I had two tanks where I barely got 6.5 MPG. Obviously pulling a trailer in the wind is one of the toughest things to do but to say I was disappointed in the MPG numbers would be an understatement. Even my Suburban, towing under similar conditions, could eke out 8 or 9 MPG.

I typically run 87 octane fuel (which is mid-grade around here) per the owners manual. If I'm towing the trailer I will usually try to get premium (91 octane in the Rocky Mtns) but that hurts when you're filling a 36 gallon gas tank. So far my most expensive fuel up was $115 but on the aforementioned trip to Kansas, I fueled up twice in one day for around $90 EACH TIME. That's $180 for one day of driving 500 miles.

 

[Martinjmpr]

^^^^^^ So that's the bad, i.e. worse than expected fuel economy.

The good: TONS of power. In the Suburban, when climbing a high pass like Berthoud or the Eisenhower Tunnel, my speed would drop down to 25 - 30 MPH with the engine screaming in 1st gear (2nd was too high.) By contrast, in the F-150 I'm in the left lane, going 60 - 65 MPH and passing other traffic.

The 10 speed transmission is amazing. It's always got a gear to go into. It also does a great job slowing the rig down when descending a steep pass, which is nice because on the Suburban I had to do it manually.

It's a very stable and comfortable truck, great for long days on the road (except for my sciatica, but I can't blame the truck for that.) Audio system is great and the truck is quiet, which I like.

I sometimes wonder if I should have gotten the V8 instead. Not because of the sound (I'm not a teenager, I couldn't care less about that) but because it has the ability to run on lower-grade gas (including E-85) without issues. Given that the cost of premium is typically $.50 or even $.70 more than regular unleaded, the difference between a 30 gallon fuelup of regular vs premium can be over $20 and that's not a small difference.

 

[rruff]

Swapped tires in January and went up one size, from 275/65/18 to 275/70/18 (same width but about 1" bigger diameter.) Tires are General Grabber ATX

Non-towing MPG seems to run 15 - 17 for the most part, but again I'd point out that I'm mostly doing suburban or around-town driving. We don't do a lot of long trips in the truck. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how so many folks here are getting these great MPG numbers. Mine have been a little bit disappointing. Yes, there have been one or two trips where I've gotten 20 MPG but only under absolutely ideal conditions. Back when I was driving to and from work every day (10 mile commute each way) I rarely got better than 16 MPG (which is still respectable and is still a significant improvement over the ~12 - 13 MPG I was getting on the Suburban under the same driving conditions.)

Tires can make a big difference... and it isn't size or weight, but rather hysteresis of the compound/construction (rolling resistance). I went from 32" street tires on my Tundra to fat and heavy 35" ATs and around town mpg actually improved. At high speeds it's a little worse due to aero.

Unfortunately it's damn hard to tell which tires are good and which aren't. There are some tests for car tires, but very little for truck tires. I have Hankook ATMs in 325/65r18... but they stopped making them.

According to Fuelly your truck gets ~16 mpg on average, so you aren't really doing bad at all. On the highway, going a little slower (big difference between 70 and 80 IME) and drafting other vehicles can help a lot.

 

[jbaucom]

I sometimes wonder if I should have gotten the V8 instead. Not because of the sound (I'm not a teenager, I couldn't care less about that) but because it has the ability to run on lower-grade gas (including E-85) without issues. Given that the cost of premium is typically $.50 or even $.70 more than regular unleaded, the difference between a 30 gallon fuelup of regular vs premium can be over $20 and that's not a small difference.

My 2019 5.0 pings enough on regular (87 octane) that I always fill up with premium. It's normal and nothing to worry about, but it bothers me when it does it. Even the owners manual states to run premium for optimal performance. I topped off my tank last week - it was $50 and I wasn't even down to a half-tank. I still love that 36 gallon tank. We took the wife's car to Kentucky last week - 400 miles away - and had to stop to fill up on the way. On that kind of trip, I can do 700+ miles in the truck.

 

[rruff]

My 2019 5.0 pings enough on regular (87 octane) that I always fill up with premium. It's normal and nothing to worry about, but it bothers me when it does it.

The price difference is ~20%... yikes.

 

[Dougnuts]

Here is active recalls for my friends 2017 3.5 with 10 speed.

On that list, only the freezing door latch is needed. The rest are on an as-needed basis, including the door lock actuator.

There is a recall that changes the oil pressure sent to the cam phasers, which made my truck run better. If your cam phasers fail (mine had not) they will replace them up to a certain mileage. The engine shudder reflash is only performed if the oil pressure reflash causes a shudder. As I mentioned, my truck has run better (smoother off idle) after the oil pressure reflash.

As for the mileage questions, I try to keep my highway speeds below 75, although I certainly don’t always do that. My tire pressures are typically around 37psi. Lastly, I coast whenever possible. I also like to accelerate quickly, but I make up for it with the driving style listed above. Oh, I also run premium, always. The low RPM torque and the protection from low speed pre ignition are worth it to me. My Fuelly link is in my post on the previous page.

The Ecoboost engines are very much use it (power) and lose it (mpg) power plants. People like to talk about them returning low mileage, but the gen 2 motors appear to be a little more efficient. With that said, they make a ton of torque…… if you use it, you’re going to pay for it. You don’t have to though! You can still accelerate briskly without building a ton of boost. Think about it, a 3.5L at 14lbs of boost is a 7L, so it will require the fuel that a 7L would. Keep the boost minimal, and you’ll get better fuel economy.

 

[Grassland]

My friends truck has been in for the death rattle sound on cold starts, and other issues I don't have the info infront of me.

I've not known anyone personally to achieve the insanely great fuel economy in an EcoBoost, be it a first or second gen 3.5.
My NA 3.7 cyclone is also a pig on fuel, best ever has been 20 mp US gallon.
All the extra torque and HP would be nice lol.

 

[Watt maker]

My old 2012 had 3.73s and 34s

13.5 mpg

I also had a 2012 with the 3.5. Initially, it got 19 mpg but after many, way too many trips back to the dealership for numerous issues, a couple reflashes and it was down to 11.5 mpg with 33” tires. In the 45k miles over a span of 2 years, it became unreliable. When it was running right, the power was impressive though. Mine also ate plugs like crazy, even blew the ceramic off one plug inside of the cylinder at one point, which was never recovered. The transmission was actually the one thing that I never had an issue with. The final straw(s) were when fuel dilution became noticeable, engine would knock especially when cold, and some bad electrical gremlins. I know I had a lemon and I would guess the new ones are improved and better but I don’t think I’d try one again. My brother-in-law has a 2018 3.5 f150 that’s been good to him and my sister has a 2021 expedition platinum that’s also been good. Now, a 7.3 F250/350 Tremor just about checks all the boxes for me. I kind of wish I would’ve traded my Tundra for one before Covid.

 

[D45]

Yes. The 36 gallon tank in my 2012 was a great feature !!!

I think my Silverado has a 26 gallon tank?

 

[Martinjmpr]

Yes. The 36 gallon tank in my 2012 was a great feature !!!

I think my Silverado has a 26 gallon tank?

When I was shopping for a truck in 2019 I really, really wanted to consider the Silverado. I was coming from a Suburban and really liked the 'burb (except for the weak 4L60 trans that is.)

What killed it for me was: No optional fuel tank on the CCSB or even CCLB models. 26 gallons is pitiful on a full size truck with a V8. Sadly had to cross GM off the list even though it checked most of my other boxes. Both the Dodge and Ford offered 30+ gallon fuel tanks (32 on the Dodge and 36 on the Ford.)

LOVE my 36 gallon tank all the time EXCEPT when fueling up an empty tank and gas prices are over $4.00/gallon. That hurts.

 

[Martinjmpr]

My 2019 5.0 pings enough on regular (87 octane) that I always fill up with premium. It's normal and nothing to worry about, but it bothers me when it does it. Even the owners manual states to run premium for optimal performance. I topped off my tank last week - it was $50 and I wasn't even down to a half-tank. I still love that 36 gallon tank. We took the wife's car to Kentucky last week - 400 miles away - and had to stop to fill up on the way. On that kind of trip, I can do 700+ miles in the truck.

Have you ever run E-85 in it? E-85 is pretty high octane (I want to say at least 93, maybe higher?) It has less energy per gallon so MPG will be lower but it should run just fine. When I had my flex-fuel Suburban I would run E-85 if it was available. Less MPG, but also way less cost. I actually calculated the "break even" on E-85, it worked out to about $0.75/gallon. IOW if E-85 was $.75/gallon less than regular, it made sense to run E-85. Sometimes it was as much as $1.00/gallon less.

 

[Martinjmpr]

The Ecoboost engines are very much use it (power) and lose it (mpg) power plants. People like to talk about them returning low mileage, but the gen 2 motors appear to be a little more efficient. With that said, they make a ton of torque…… if you use it, you’re going to pay for it. You don’t have to though! You can still accelerate briskly without building a ton of boost. Think about it, a 3.5L at 14lbs of boost is a 7L, so it will require the fuel that a 7L would. Keep the boost minimal, and you’ll get better fuel economy.

OK, how do you know how much boost it is using? My XLT doesn't have a boost gauge. Is there a dongle I can plug into the OBD port and a gauge that will show boost level? I've often been curious, especially when ascending high passes pulling the trailer. I thought max torque was at low RPM but mine is revving nearly 5k in 2nd or 3rd gear when climbing an 11,000' pass.

 

[jbaucom]

Have you ever run E-85 in it? E-85 is pretty high octane (I want to say at least 93, maybe higher?) It has less energy per gallon so MPG will be lower but it should run just fine. When I had my flex-fuel Suburban I would run E-85 if it was available. Less MPG, but also way less cost. I actually calculated the "break even" on E-85, it worked out to about $0.75/gallon. IOW if E-85 was $.75/gallon less than regular, it made sense to run E-85. Sometimes it was as much as $1.00/gallon less.

I have never run E85 in this truck. Around here it's not that easy to find E85, and at the stations that do carry E85, the price is only about 25 cents/gallon cheaper than I pay for premium at Costco, and it's about 10 cents/gallon higher than regular at Costco. The price/mile just doesn't work out for me to run E85. If it were cheap enough, I'd run it.