F150 - 2.7L vs 3.5L vs 5.0L

[Todd780]

What configuration did you end up with?

SuperCrew w/ 6.5" bed.
3.5L
XLT 302a
Sport Pkg
FX4
MaxTow
360 cameras
OnBoard scales w/ SmartHitch
Tailgate step




Can't get HDPP on 302a. Highest trim you can get it on is 301a.
And I wanted the features of 302a. Ended up w/ a payload of 1,777 lbs.
Not an 'expo'ish' truck at all. But, it serves our purposes well.

 

[NoTraxx]

https://www.fordmuscle.com/news/street-legal-whipple-2018-f-150-blower-picks-up-285-hp/

Yah know, I really thought it would have been higher.
606hp and 501ftlbs, meh.

 

[NoTraxx]

SuperCrew w/ 6.5" bed.
3.5L
XLT 302a
Sport Pkg
FX4
MaxTow
360 cameras
OnBoard scales w/ SmartHitch
Tailgate step

View attachment 744643
View attachment 744644

Can't get HDPP on 302a. Highest trim you can get it on is 301a.
And I wanted the features of 302a. Ended up w/ a payload of 1,777 lbs.
Not an 'expo'ish' truck at all. But, it serves our purposes well.

Yeah, that sucks about the HDPP only on the lower end packages. I have tried the truck builder and searches with no luck.
But what did it cost to get that Hoe mounted to the roof? Use that for snow removal?

 

[Todd780]

Yeah, that sucks about the HDPP only on the lower end packages. I have tried the truck builder and searches with no luck.
But what did it cost to get that Hoe mounted to the roof? Use that for snow removal?

I know in previous year is was available up to the base model Lariat. It's too bad they don't offer that anymore.

Lol, it wasn't too bad. It was 50% off cause there's no tracks. Comes in pretty handy when loading the box.

 

[skrypj]

Good morning ya’ll.
I remember that there was some discussion that the torque on the 5.0 didn’t come on until 4Kish rpm. Yes and no, Peak torque doesn’t come on until then. But there is plenty of usable torque In the lower RPM range.
I was looking around for some tunes a while back and here you go.
5.0 stock and stock tune.
View attachment 740587
3.5 EB stock and stock tune Compared to the perf tow tune.
View attachment 740588
I you you look closely both are at almost 300 ft pounds at 2.5k RPM. So not really that big of a difference for low down torque.
At this point pick your poison.

That is a pretty bad representation of the Ecoboost torque curve. They rolled into the throttle starting at 2200 rpm and were not fully in it until 3000 rpm. They probably did it to control the torque surge that would happen due to being in a high gear at high load at low rpm. I've never seen a 2nd gen 3.5 official torque curve, but the first gen 3.5 was making a peak of 420 ft-lbs at 2250 RPM, and 90% of its peak torque was available from 1700 to 5000 rpm. So that means at 1700 RPM it was making at least 380 ft-lbs.

The current 3.5L is rated for 500 ft-lbs at 3000 rpm.

You would need to put them on a load dyno that holds the engine at a certain RPM to see the true difference in torque produced. There is a huge differnce between steady state torque(like towing a trailer up a mountain at constant speed) vs acceleration(like on a typical dyno.) The Ecoboost demolishes pretty much any other half ton motor at 2000 rpm or less with the exception of maybe GM's 6.2L

Here is the torque curve for the 1st gen 3.5:

I have the same problem with those HP/torque curves as with most others I've seen...they start at 2000 rpm and seem to show the vehicle has NO power below that. My truck spends 99.9% of its time below 2000 rpm even when towing, so show me what the engine is producing from idle to 2000 rpm. I could care less about anything above that range.

Exactly.

Well I don’t know about the 99.9% below 2K. Ya’ll must have low speed limits there and towing lite.

My 2014 3.5L tows a 6000 lb travel trailer with the aerodynamics of a parachute in Utah where the towing speed limits are 80 mph. I usually tow at 70mph but have done 75mph on some occasions. My ecoboost will chug along in 6th gear at 1900 rpm no problem with LT315/70R17's, and that is at 6500' of elevation where a 5.0 would be gasping for air and making 20% less torque.

Climbing 7% grades is done at 3200 rpm at that speed. So basically my Ecoboost spends 95% of its time towing at 2000 rpm or less, with the occasional jump to 2500(5th gear) or 3200(4th gear) on climbs. And thats stock. With a tune mine was climbing 2-3% grades in 6th. The newer Ecoboosts make 60 or 80 ft-lbs more torque and would need even less RPM on the climbs.

Thats the difference between a 5.0 and 3.5. That dyno graph doesnt tell you anything meaningful because it doesnt even show the reall torque numbers in the RPM range the truck would even be at towing. 3000 rpm is the highest the truck would really need to be at unless you are towing an absolutely massive load up a 7% grade.

Even my MIL's 7.3L Godzilla was less torquey than my 2014 Ecoboost at low RPM.

 

[calicamper]

The 3.5 definitely has loads of torque at/just under 2000rpm. Which was only seen in diesel power till the duel turbo technology was finally sorted out so that low RPM power could be found.
The Ecoboosts, the GM 2.7 and now the copy cat Toyota 3.5 are the only gas motors that give diesel like low rpm power. However they are still gas engines and can also run high rpms unlike diesel power.

I went from the 07 Toyota 4.7 which got a power bump timing advance to boost power required premium fuel as a result. To the 2019 3.5 Ecoboost Platinum 400hp. The power delivery is massively different the 4.7 was just at 300 hp at 4700rpm and gutless till 3000rpm.
The 3.5 Eco boost has gobs of pulling grunt at 1800rpm and is putting down near max grunt at 2500. Making it very diesel like regarding rare down shifts on hills. Vs the old V8’s would drop 1-2 gears for a wind gust ? and start screaming like a V8 on a drag strip. That definitely gets old on long trips.

 

[Buddha.]

Here is the torque curve for the 1st gen 3.5:

View attachment 744844

That 3.5 curve looks unnaturally flat, like the tune is capping power at 400 or whatever.
This must be intentional by ford, I wonder why.

 

[calicamper]

That 3.5 curve looks unnaturally flat, like the tune is capping power at 400 or whatever.
This must be intentional by ford, I wonder why.

First gen 3.5 was pre 10spd. A big reason Ford co developed the 10spd with GM was for a flexible transmission capable of dealing with big power.
The early 3.5’s were likely capped and built to a power limit that was transmission reliability limited.

Plus if you look at all modern engines their torque curves are all very flat.

 

[skrypj]

That 3.5 curve looks unnaturally flat, like the tune is capping power at 400 or whatever.
This must be intentional by ford, I wonder why.

Oh it is 100% capped and I am sure its a reliability thing. Part of the issue was probably low speed pre-ignition, which is when the fuel auto ignites like a diesel and causes super knock. You have an engine that has a relatively high compression ratio with a lot of boost at low RPM and it can happen. When the Ecoboost first came out it was a bigger problem because the engine oils were part of the problem and they didnt tweak them to reduce LSPI until API SN+ came out, which was 2018 I think.

The tuning on the Ecoboost engine is load based. That means there is a table in the tune that says, if you are at X RPM and the gas pedal is pushed Y distance, make Z amount of torque. The PCM then takes that torque value and figures out how to make it via a bunch of modeling and calculations built into the tuning.

If they actually let the turbos spool all the way then you would probably be making north of 600 ft-lbs at 2500 rpm and the engine would last about 10 minutes. My truck tuned was making over 500 ft-lbs at 1800 rpm.

 

[D45]

Looks like some issues with 2015 to 2017 2.7L trucks

 

[Grassland]

Man, how did I survive a 13,000km road trip towing my camper with a 3.7?

 

[D45]

The 5.0L felt strong for sure, but I still feel the 3.5L was so much more powerful down low

I have yet to drive a 2.7L

Seems like the 3.5Ls are time bombs.........no reason when and if they fail

All these phaser and timing chain issues on the 3.5Ls and 2.7Ls

The 2.7Ls seem to run about $5k-$7k cheaper for used trucks

The 2.7L was very peppy and I feel the power was similar to my 5.3L V8

 

[Martinjmpr]

Seems like the 3.5Ls are time bombs.........no reason when and if they fail

All these phaser and timing chain issues on the 3.5Ls and 2.7Ls

The 2.7Ls seem to run about $5k-$7k cheaper for used trucks

The 2.7L was very peppy and I feel the power was similar to my 5.3L V8

I believe the 5.0's had cam phaser issues too. As did the 5.4 Triton.

And don't forget the excess oil consumption issues with the 5.0. Still not fixed, at least from what I'm seeing in the F-150 Facebook groups. Some guys are putting in a quart every 1,000 miles.

Don't know why Ford keeps having cam phaser issues but it's a well established pattern.

FWIW mine started chattering at about 56,000 miles, just before my 5/60 warranty went out. Had them fixed 3 weeks ago and (fingers crossed) everything's running fine now.

After giving it some thought I bit the bullet and got a Ford Extended warranty that will cover the truck through 104,000 miles or July of 2026 (48 months), whichever comes first. Didn't want to do it but with the prices of new and even used vehicles, it seemed to be a wise choice since we need the truck to pull our trailer.

 

[stevo_pct]

After giving it some thought I bit the bullet and got a Ford Extended warranty that will cover the truck through 104,000 miles or July of 2026 (48 months), whichever comes first. Didn't want to do it but with the prices of new and even used vehicles, it seemed to be a wise choice since we need the truck to pull our trailer.

I was thinking about getting the extended warranty as well. I'm just outside of the 3yr/30,000 mi. warranty, so I don't need to worry about it just yet, but I don't want to forget and be caught off guard.

I have a 2019 5.0L. I have had no problems with the engine so far and it doesn't seem to be burning any oil (a quart at most between 5,000 mi oil changes), but I'm wondering about the transmission. I'll often notice shifts that seem louder and/or clunkier than I'd expect - at least compared to everything else I have owned in the past. Not sure if that's just par for the course with the new 10 speeds, or if this is a problem.

 

[Martinjmpr]

I was thinking about getting the extended warranty as well. I'm just outside of the 3yr/30,000 mi. warranty, so I don't need to worry about it just yet, but I don't want to forget and be caught off guard.

Unless you're outside the US and Canada, the factory bumper-to-bumper is 3 years/36,000 miles and the engine/powertrain is 5 years / 60,000 miles.

My warrantee is through Ford (Ford Extended Service Plan) and believe it or not, it was the least expensive of all the ones I looked at (I cross-shopped them.) I ended up at about $3300 for 4 years / 48,000 miles and it has a $100 deductible. They don't seem to offer a premium for pre-payment so I went ahead and just had it billed in 24 monthly installments (with inflation being what it is, I figured I'm paying for money that's worth less each month so in the end I'll save money by stretching out the payments.) It comes out to $112 a month and so I think of it as just another form of insurance.

Having had the experience of an unexpected breakdown far from home (when the transmission went out in my Suburban in rural Utah in 2019) I know what a PITA that can be.