f250ben's plywood skeletonized teardrop

[f250ben]

This is just another teardrop build thread. I've been reading through the offroad/adventure/teardrop builds on expedition portal for a couple of years. I've never been active on Expedition Portal, but I've been a reader for a good while. I don't post threads often, but have also been a member of Overland Bound for a couple of years and Tacoma World/4runner.org for a long time. Started saying last year (after a year of driving around with a RTT on top of my 4runner) that I really wanted to go in the teardrop direction. This is not a miniature camper. The goal here is a simple "tent on wheels" that allows for comfortable sleeping arrangements for me, my wife, our daughter, and our second child that's due next year. This is also NOT going to be an expensive build. I've seen builds where people spent $2000-$3500, including a custom frame and manufactured doors and windows. I'll be making everything myself for this build, (not sure on windows yet, but definitely doors and rear hatch), not doing a custom frame, and not doing timbren axleless suspension or anything expensive there. I honestly don't have the budget to even spend 2K on this, so its going to be cheap, DIY, and drawn out. I'm not on a super strict timeline, and I need a project I can go back to without putting how i get to work out of commission for multiple weekends. I'm shooting for having this teardrop weatherproof and road-worthy by end of next year. If that happens, I'd be super happy.

My rig, and my current setup that I want to move away from:
2003 4Runner, SR5, 4x4, 213K miles, dobinsons suspension, Prinsu roof rack, and lots of smaller things I've done. The CVT Mt Shasta RTT shown is what will eventually live on the teardrop.




Primary goals of the build:
-sleeps 2 adults inside, bunk for 1 small child inside
-strong enough for me to stand on top of the roof and walk around
-can permanently carry a RTT on roof rack bars
-small galley kitchen in back
-just enough storage to keep our clothes, personal effects, and kitchen gear stored inside permanently
-tough enough structure to handle rough roads like the unmaintained roads in Big Bend (practically, that's the roughest we ever see, and if we're going rougher, we probably left the trailer at camp)


I spent $420 on a rusty 5x8 utility trailer last week, and that will be the starting point for the build.



And just as a starting point and to give credit to other builds I've found really helpful:
https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/boxy-off-road-camper-build-thread.170405/page-2 especially helpful because of the cost breakdowns on the second page of this thread
https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/my-offroad-tear-drop-plan-build.126576/ profile influence, and great detail on construction techniques AND order of operations for construction
https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/teardrop-4.205003/page-4 learned a lot about more traditional teardrop construction and hatch design from this one
https://www.expeditionportal.com/fo...on-trailer-build-on-a-m116a1-platform.188693/ more profile influence pulled from this one, and helpful detail
https://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/the-crowswing-offroad-teardrop-trailer.68693/ found these folk's approach to the design and planning stage SUPER helpful
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=68563 helpful thread
https://morethanthursdays.com/homebuilt-teardrop-trailer-11-door-construction/ liked this couple's entire build series, but this specifically gave me good door detail. Wasn't sure about doing my own doors till I saw their post. Pretty sure I can pull it off now.
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_To_Build_A_Teardrop_Trailer SUPER helpful wikibook. Someone put some time into this. Really helpful door and hatch seal details.

I'll be posting updates regularly, I'm currently designing and laying out the profile and how everything will fit together. Most of my posts for a while will be snapshots of my sketchup designs and details I'm working through. Would love feedback and insight as I'm working through things!

 

[f250ben]

What I've got so far:
I'm currently laying out the ENTIRE detailed design in Sketchup before I move forward with modifying the trailer to meet my needs. Once I'm happy with the Sketchup design, my next steps will be:
-Masking tape mockup on a wall
-Cardboard lifesize model to check sizing (sleeping space is pretty maximized, need to make sure it doesn't feel like a coffin)
-Demo trailer flooring and side walls, import detailed model of remaining trailer frame into Sketchup
-Design trailer modifications (especially fenders, front cargo/tongue area, sliders front/rear of fenders, and rear bumper/slider)
-Purchase a used stick welder and corded grinder ($100 budget for both)
-Learn to weld, modify trailer, POR15, paint
-Finally start building teardrop box (have an OK amount of tools, but I will need a cheap router, and may spring for a cheap tracksaw to help with all the detail panel cuts)













Basic Trailer info, what I'm building:
-5x8 frame with galley overhanging another 8" off the back
-pintle hitch, probably with a removable hitch extender on the trailer side to reduce storage length when not in use and sitting in my garage.
-Skeletonized, laminated plywood construction. 1/2" exterior sheathing, 3/4" skeletonized internal "frame" with foam inset in all skeletonized sections, 1/4" interior skin and headliner, laminated 3/4" plywood ceiling beams, 3/4" exterior roof.
-DIY doors (one on each side), not sure on windows yet. Laminated construction similar to wall construction.
-Construction will primarily be screws and glue, lots of pocket holes.
-Finishes will be West Coast epoxy, second coat of WC on exterior once its entirely constructed, Monstaliner exterior (allnighter green and black accents), paint on interior.
-Propane for stove and small heater inside teardrop. Haven't decided if I'll run hard lines with a connection point for a big tank or not. Probably not.
-I'm going to WIRE for a 12V system, but probably won't actually connect it for a little bit. Electrical will only be for charging devices, lighting, a couple of small fans, and a roof exhaust fan
-Things that will not be in/on this trailer: solar, water pumps, onboard plumbed water, water heater, inverters, flat screen TV's, axleless suspension, and multi-axis offroad-specific hitch systems. Love most of these things, but I've chosen to go with the simpler version, or simply completely do without these things for build simplicity (never built anything exactly like this) and cost.


BIG QUESTIONS/things I'm stuck on currently:
-Axle, wheels and tires I currently have an old 3.5" drop axle with 5 lug hubs and 15" wheels. Its probably a 2000lb axle. Doubt its more. I was going to do an axle flip, and probably flip the drop upside down for additional lift. BUT. I'll still be stuck with the same wheels and tire size (7-15) . Don't care to go super sized on my tires, but I want decently tough tires that can handle tough terrain. Should I look at wheel adapters to go to a different wheel/tire combo and open up my tire options, or just stick with what I've got and purchase the toughest 7-15 tires I can find?
Or should I go to a 3500 lb axle with a hub pattern I want and completely redo that part of the trailer?

-Haven't even begun to design an electrical box anywhere. I"ll have a tongue box for the battery and fuse/junction box, but I'll need somewhere for switches at the back galley, an inlet point going into the main cabin, and a control box inside the cabin. That's one of the next design things I've got to figure out

-Simple, inexpensive roof rack bars and mounting feet. Not sure yet, haven't gotten there.

-Laying out the ceiling exhaust fan and the roof rack bars so that the exhaust can open and function with a RTT on top of the bars. I know it will need to be underneath, not sure how much the RTT will have to be spaced above the roof so it can work.

-Need to find the weather stripping, trim and hinge products I'm going to use before designing the seals for doors and the rear hatch. There's a good chance that will change the dimensions of cabinets in the galley, and where the door will be placed, so I need to figure that out before going further. Would love suggestions or resources!

-Have to measure water jugs that will be stored in the galley, then lay out a pull out table on HD slides pulling out directly under the current counter.






Thoughts/input/suggestions appreciated! I'll post more soon with more pics of my trailer,

 

[opp]

one thing to keep cost down and weight down . Is by using the most superb window for off road .A wiley window one moveing part glass can be removed . Replaced with something hard when off road . No Alum. to be stolen . glass replacement cutting board. temper glass

 

[f250ben]

one thing to keep cost down and weight down . Is by using the most superb window for off road .A wiley window one moveing part glass can be removed . Replaced with something hard when off road . No Alum. to be stolen . glass replacement cutting board. temper glass

Thanks! I've done some research on the wiley windows, its a smart idea, not exactly the function I'm going for though. I don't love the idea of removable glass. Just want something simple and sealed, with more of a clean modern look.

 

[opp]

How are you going to get air flow? out side of wily window as it sets in the door when closed locks glass

 

[f250ben]

How are you going to get air flow? out side of wily window as it sets in the door when closed locks glass

Will either have a manually opened vent on a wall, in addition to the powered roof vent/fan combo , or will just install a small manufactured window that can slide open.

I care about being able to sell this trailer in the future for a decent amount of money, so I’m prioritizing finishes that don’t look too home brewed. That’s also where a lot of my challenge comes from-it’s difficult to do do custom professional finishes on a home brew budget.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Louisd75]

What I've got so far:
I'm currently laying out the ENTIRE detailed design in Sketchup before I move forward with modifying the trailer to meet my needs. Once I'm happy with the Sketchup design, my next steps will be:
-Masking tape mockup on a wall
-Cardboard lifesize model to check sizing (sleeping space is pretty maximized, need to make sure it doesn't feel like a coffin)
-Demo trailer flooring and side walls, import detailed model of remaining trailer frame into Sketchup
-Design trailer modifications (especially fenders, front cargo/tongue area, sliders front/rear of fenders, and rear bumper/slider)
-Purchase a used stick welder and corded grinder ($100 budget for both)
-Learn to weld, modify trailer, POR15, paint
-Finally start building teardrop box (have an OK amount of tools, but I will need a cheap router, and may spring for a cheap tracksaw to help with all the detail panel cuts)

View attachment 536080

View attachment 536077


View attachment 536078

View attachment 536081

View attachment 536082


Basic Trailer info, what I'm building:
-5x8 frame with galley overhanging another 8" off the back
-pintle hitch, probably with a removable hitch extender on the trailer side to reduce storage length when not in use and sitting in my garage.
-Skeletonized, laminated plywood construction. 1/2" exterior sheathing, 3/4" skeletonized internal "frame" with foam inset in all skeletonized sections, 1/4" interior skin and headliner, laminated 3/4" plywood ceiling beams, 3/4" exterior roof.
-DIY doors (one on each side), not sure on windows yet. Laminated construction similar to wall construction.
-Construction will primarily be screws and glue, lots of pocket holes.
-Finishes will be West Coast epoxy, second coat of WC on exterior once its entirely constructed, Monstaliner exterior (allnighter green and black accents), paint on interior.
-Propane for stove and small heater inside teardrop. Haven't decided if I'll run hard lines with a connection point for a big tank or not. Probably not.
-I'm going to WIRE for a 12V system, but probably won't actually connect it for a little bit. Electrical will only be for charging devices, lighting, a couple of small fans, and a roof exhaust fan
-Things that will not be in/on this trailer: solar, water pumps, onboard plumbed water, water heater, inverters, flat screen TV's, axleless suspension, and multi-axis offroad-specific hitch systems. Love most of these things, but I've chosen to go with the simpler version, or simply completely do without these things for build simplicity (never built anything exactly like this) and cost.


BIG QUESTIONS/things I'm stuck on currently:
-Axle, wheels and tires I currently have an old 3.5" drop axle with 5 lug hubs and 15" wheels. Its probably a 2000lb axle. Doubt its more. I was going to do an axle flip, and probably flip the drop upside down for additional lift. BUT. I'll still be stuck with the same wheels and tire size (7-15) . Don't care to go super sized on my tires, but I want decently tough tires that can handle tough terrain. Should I look at wheel adapters to go to a different wheel/tire combo and open up my tire options, or just stick with what I've got and purchase the toughest 7-15 tires I can find?
Or should I go to a 3500 lb axle with a hub pattern I want and completely redo that part of the trailer?

-Haven't even begun to design an electrical box anywhere. I"ll have a tongue box for the battery and fuse/junction box, but I'll need somewhere for switches at the back galley, an inlet point going into the main cabin, and a control box inside the cabin. That's one of the next design things I've got to figure out

-Simple, inexpensive roof rack bars and mounting feet. Not sure yet, haven't gotten there.

-Laying out the ceiling exhaust fan and the roof rack bars so that the exhaust can open and function with a RTT on top of the bars. I know it will need to be underneath, not sure how much the RTT will have to be spaced above the roof so it can work.

-Need to find the weather stripping, trim and hinge products I'm going to use before designing the seals for doors and the rear hatch. There's a good chance that will change the dimensions of cabinets in the galley, and where the door will be placed, so I need to figure that out before going further. Would love suggestions or resources!

-Have to measure water jugs that will be stored in the galley, then lay out a pull out table on HD slides pulling out directly under the current counter.






Thoughts/input/suggestions appreciated! I'll post more soon with more pics of my trailer,

Oh man, my build was in your stack o' links. Have I attained social media influencer status? Ha!

Your drawings look like you've put a bit of time and thought into things. I'm a big fan of simple, though as you've seen on my thread, my trailer has been slowly evolving as we use it.

Some things to think about:

There are lots of wheel adapters out there. That may be the easiest/cheapest way to go to a bigger wheel. Sounds like you've got a torsion axle. I'm not sure if de-rated torsion axles are available, ie, getting one with 3500lb hubs/spindles but 2500lb internals. I've had good luck getting those kind of technical questions answered at eTrailer, but keep in mind that they may not know about something that if they don't carry it.

It looks like the white panels in the galley are going to be cabinets? One of the ones on the side might be a good spot for a fuse block or power distribution place. Mine is in the cabin of the trailer and it's convenient in some ways but with kids who like pressing buttons, things get turned on and off a lot more than I'd like. I wound up redoing my panel in part because we added solar and in part because of the kiddos. The big one was having the master switch inside. They loved flipping that one but it would cause the propane/co alarm to have to go through it's calibration again. It also wasn't very good for the furnace if it was running. So, no more master switch inside.

Which ceiling fan are you looking at? The Fantastic Fan has a limit switch that won't let it run unless it's at least partially open. I can't remember how far open mine needs to be to run and I'm away from the trailer or I'd measure. I do know that Fantastic Fan made a couple of different base heights but only the tall one is available now. Camp Inn (tinycampers.com) may still use the low base model and they may be willing to sell them to home builders. Might be worth shooting them an email.

I ordered most of my trim through Vintage Technologies (www.teardroptrailerparts.com). The website has pretty good pictures with dimensions.

One downside of the 8x5 size is that with a kid it's going to feel snug. I see the bunkbed in one of your earlier drawings but keep in mind that they grow waaaay quicker than you think What are your thoughts on extending the bunk bed to the full width of the trailer and moving those two storage cubbies? The shape/size of the cubby would need to change a little, but it might be possible to move them onto the walls but still be aft enough to touch the bunk bed if that makes any sense. I'm thinking akin to a medicine cabinet mounted as far aft against the bunk bed as possible. You still have storage but you get the full width of the bunk. The head/foot of the bunk would be behind the cabinets. It also looks like you've got a ton of foot room. If the side cabinets don't make sense for you, what about a couple of shallow drawers? Just some things to think about when you do your masking tape mockup.

One upside of the 8x5 is that you can go with a full/queen size bed. The nice thing about the trailer is that the bed sleeps bigger than it actually is. You aren't going to fall out of it once the door is closed, so you can use the entire width. My wife and I have no problems sleeping with our 2yo between us, though we are trying to get him more comfortable sleeping in his bunk. For now his bed is used for extra storage.

I've toyed around with a roof rack for the trailer but in all likelihood I'm going to leave it off. I do like the way that SoCal Teardrops does their mounting brackets, but I also think that it wouldn't be too much work to mount a set of Yakima or Thule tracks to the roof.

Anyhow, food for thought. I'll try and keep up with this thread when the ship is in port.

 

[Teardropper]

Your brain is cranking.

One thing the jumps out at me with your design is that near-90º angle on your hatch. How are you going to build that? Here's my hatch:


No flex. Seals like a refrigerator.

And how it's built:


The other thing is that your door opening (and please tell me it's two doors) that goes all the way to the floor. A properly designed teardrop cabin is a torsion box. If you take the door opening to the floor, it no longer functions that way. It's a flex point.

Teardrop door openings should be half-way into the mattress.

Take a gander at my build log: https://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/teardrop-4.205003/

T

 

[NevadaBlue]

Watching from here. I like your design.

 

[billiebob]

What I've got so far:
I'm currently laying out the ENTIRE detailed design in Sketchup before I move forward with modifying the trailer to meet my needs. Once I'm happy with the Sketchup design, my next steps will be:
-Masking tape mockup on a wall
-Cardboard lifesize model to check sizing (sleeping space is pretty maximized, need to make sure it doesn't feel like a coffin)
-Demo trailer flooring and side walls, import detailed model of remaining trailer frame into Sketchup
-Design trailer modifications (especially fenders, front cargo/tongue area, sliders front/rear of fenders, and rear bumper/slider)
-Purchase a used stick welder and corded grinder ($100 budget for both)
-Learn to weld, modify trailer, POR15, paint
-Finally start building teardrop box (have an OK amount of tools, but I will need a cheap router, and may spring for a cheap tracksaw to help with all the detail panel cuts)

View attachment 536080

View attachment 536077


View attachment 536078

View attachment 536081

View attachment 536082


Basic Trailer info, what I'm building:
-5x8 frame with galley overhanging another 8" off the back
-pintle hitch, probably with a removable hitch extender on the trailer side to reduce storage length when not in use and sitting in my garage.
-Skeletonized, laminated plywood construction. 1/2" exterior sheathing, 3/4" skeletonized internal "frame" with foam inset in all skeletonized sections, 1/4" interior skin and headliner, laminated 3/4" plywood ceiling beams, 3/4" exterior roof.
-DIY doors (one on each side), not sure on windows yet. Laminated construction similar to wall construction.
-Construction will primarily be screws and glue, lots of pocket holes.
-Finishes will be West Coast epoxy, second coat of WC on exterior once its entirely constructed, Monstaliner exterior (allnighter green and black accents), paint on interior.
-Propane for stove and small heater inside teardrop. Haven't decided if I'll run hard lines with a connection point for a big tank or not. Probably not.
-I'm going to WIRE for a 12V system, but probably won't actually connect it for a little bit. Electrical will only be for charging devices, lighting, a couple of small fans, and a roof exhaust fan
-Things that will not be in/on this trailer: solar, water pumps, onboard plumbed water, water heater, inverters, flat screen TV's, axleless suspension, and multi-axis offroad-specific hitch systems. Love most of these things, but I've chosen to go with the simpler version, or simply completely do without these things for build simplicity (never built anything exactly like this) and cost.


BIG QUESTIONS/things I'm stuck on currently:
-Axle, wheels and tires I currently have an old 3.5" drop axle with 5 lug hubs and 15" wheels. Its probably a 2000lb axle. Doubt its more. I was going to do an axle flip, and probably flip the drop upside down for additional lift. BUT. I'll still be stuck with the same wheels and tire size (7-15) . Don't care to go super sized on my tires, but I want decently tough tires that can handle tough terrain. Should I look at wheel adapters to go to a different wheel/tire combo and open up my tire options, or just stick with what I've got and purchase the toughest 7-15 tires I can find?
Or should I go to a 3500 lb axle with a hub pattern I want and completely redo that part of the trailer?

-Haven't even begun to design an electrical box anywhere. I"ll have a tongue box for the battery and fuse/junction box, but I'll need somewhere for switches at the back galley, an inlet point going into the main cabin, and a control box inside the cabin. That's one of the next design things I've got to figure out

-Simple, inexpensive roof rack bars and mounting feet. Not sure yet, haven't gotten there.

-Laying out the ceiling exhaust fan and the roof rack bars so that the exhaust can open and function with a RTT on top of the bars. I know it will need to be underneath, not sure how much the RTT will have to be spaced above the roof so it can work.

-Need to find the weather stripping, trim and hinge products I'm going to use before designing the seals for doors and the rear hatch. There's a good chance that will change the dimensions of cabinets in the galley, and where the door will be placed, so I need to figure that out before going further. Would love suggestions or resources!

-Have to measure water jugs that will be stored in the galley, then lay out a pull out table on HD slides pulling out directly under the current counter.






Thoughts/input/suggestions appreciated! I'll post more soon with more pics of my trailer,

very cool, I like the "square" design altho the "teardrop" is maybe more aerodynamic. and the rear liftgate looks very functional. Only comment, the side doors look a bit tight. Mine are 32" x 32", I really wish they were 36" tall. But if you are young and flexible.....

ps, my door is the same level as my mattress.... many reasons but I would not make the opening as low as the floor.



My windows are 1/4" plate glass bedded in silicone. They were free from an old house. I agree, minimize any moving parts, 2 doors give plenty of ventilation.

I'd make the kitchen door wider, I hate that hidden corner you are creating. Go full width with the lift door will give better access and make framing, sheathing easier. Have the door close, overlap and seal against to end of side wall.

 

[billiebob]

probably flip the drop upside down for additional lift

NO, a straight axle maybe but flipping it drop side down screams failure.

 

[billiebob]

Or should I go to a 3500 lb axle with a hub pattern I want and completely redo that part of the trailer?

YES !!

 

[f250ben]

Appreciate the replies! I've spent the last week and a half moving, so I don't have new work to show off. But I do have the trailer positioned in my new garage, and the space is ALMOST ready for a grinder and welder so I can get to work.

1) @billiebob and @Teardropper you guys both offered feedback and suggested changes for the rear hatch. Basically, I agree with you guys. I've done some additional research, and have decided I'll extend the door to the entire width of the rear. There will be a solid plywood brace between the two (almost right angle) pieces of the door, so its will be a lot more sturdy than is shown in the current design. This will allow me to seal the hatch at the wall edges, and remove those awkward inside corners.

2) Axle: it seems like the best approach is indeed just replacing the axle. A few follow up questions for that:
-Trailer brakes needed? I haven't worked out a weight estimate on this trailer yet, as I don't have a frame weight and haven't finished the design. But I'm hoping to keep it under 1600 lbs.
-Is 3500 lb axle necessary?
-Should I purchase an axle with toyota lug patterns, or should I put adapters on a standard hub axle?
-Won't I need to get additional legnth on the axle ends after the leaf perches to allow for a different offset vehicle wheel instead of skinny trailer wheels?
-Should I mess with adapting a longer leaf, softer suspension option to this setup, or should I keep the standard leaf suspension existing?



I'll be getting back into design mode this weekend, and hopefully I can finally finish designing the modified rear hatch, adjust the doors like you guys suggested (great thoughts!) and get the majority of the box design wrapped up. I'll post soon with my updated design, and the volume calculations from Sketchup I'll be using to estimate weight of the box itself. Once this design and materials estimating stage is complete, grinder and welder are next on the list to strip down the frame, then I'll be designing the frame modifications and building it back up. I hope for October to be frame stripping, November to be design and bringing in a welder, December to be building back up the frame to a complete roller status by the end of the year.

 

[Teardropper]

Trailer brakes needed? I haven't worked out a weight estimate on this trailer yet, as I don't have a frame weight and haven't finished the design. But I'm hoping to keep it under 1600 lbs.

I've been pulling a 1400 pound teardrop for many trips with my Tacoma since 2013 and have never felt the need for trailer brakes –In all of those miles, I have never had to pile on brakes. Maybe it's because I live in the boonies. But having typed that, this new build has brakes. They aren't that much more money and no big deal to wire them.

There are several states that require trailers over 1500 pounds to have brakes. Some go as low as 1,000 pounds so check your state's requirements.

T

BTW, this is how this new hatch seals. Plan that out.

 

[billiebob]

I'm hoping to keep it under 1600 lbs.
-Is 3500 lb axle necessary?

California requires trailer brakes at 1500#. If you want ti sell it, yes put on trailer brakes. Are they neccessary? Alaska does not require trailer brakes til 5500#. I tow 2000# without brakes wirh a TJ in the mountains with no issues, but if you want to sell it....

3500# axle with 2000# springs, why. For a landscsape trailer only making dump runs the 2000# axle is likely great but a 3500# axle means it could be bullet proof off road loaded for camping. All my trailers have that combo, 3500# axle, 2000# springs and 15" wheels. I'd never do anything else.

No adapters, if you are building an axle, get the wheels that work for you and build the track to fit it all. If you find a long leaf setup fabulous but I'd not waste time or money on it. I'm going to cut and widen my axle so I can fit the same wheels my Jeep has.

Another thought on track, going with a narrower axle to fit standard 15" trailer rims, when you sell it you could keep the Toyota rims and spacers, and also give the buyer the option of adding spacers to run rims matching his vehicle. This might be the smart choice.

But check you can get wide enough spacers, on my axle, I'd need 2.5" spacers.