For Mashurst....406mhz PLB's....big Wiki.

[Mash5]

Sparky, I just learned these things existed… what a week ago? I am learning about them. I come to this site to learn about what is out there. What works for people and what does not and that is what I’m doing here. You are the one with the ego that can’t be objective. I have not made up my mind, while you clearly have. If you have something to add then I’m here to read it. If you don’t have anything other than “anyone that is not a PLB fan boy is an idiot and doesn’t love their family” than no more on the subject is exactly what I would thank you for.

I have gone to great lengths to keep this civil and objective. You are making it personal by using the F word and questioning my priorities. You don’t know me, my family or the type of travel I engage in, so I’ll thank you to leave me alone to set me priorities as I will and to learn about and yes, even question this technology.

There is no hard feelings on this end and I hope there are none on yours, but the personal attacks don't add anything to the conversation. I just posted a link to a site with a bunch of PLB success stories. Heck! if there were sides, I would be on yours. I'm liking what I know about these and I'm thinking of getting one to toss in the back of the jeep and to take on hikes. I'm really not sure why you keep coming at me anyway.

Knowledge is not good or bad it's just knowledge.

It's not so much the power that allows these units to work better through some types of obstructions, it's the frequency (406mhz). They still only transmit at 4.6 to 5 watts on avg. It's much like the advantages experienced when using 70cm (440mhz) band vs. 2m (144mhz) band when indoors or in urban environments with tall buildings...etc.

I think what makes them better its the fact that you are talking to a space bird rather than a ground station. 406 should get through the trees better than the GHz GPS signal anyway.

 

[Karma]

HI Mashurst,
Other than my concern for you I have no dog in this fight. Do as you wish. You know what is said about leading a horse to water. And the F word is just a measure of my frustration. I kind of like the word. It's so expressive and versatile.

Sparky

 

[Mash5]

Sparky, Why don't you tell us about yours? How long have you had it? What was your experience getting it registered? When do you test it? What is the Test like? Have you ever had the battery replaced? What was that like? What did it cost? When do you chose not to bring it? Etc... Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[xtatik]

I think what makes them better its the fact that you are talking to a space bird rather than a ground station. 406 should get through the trees better than the GHz GPS signal anyway.

Both true. However, they can still struggle with forest overstory and the mfr'rs are still emphasizing a need for clear overhead view.

 

[Karma]

Sparky, Why don't you tell us about yours? How long have you had it? What was your experience getting it registered? When do you test it? What is the Test like? Have you ever had the battery replaced? What was that like? What did it cost? When do you chose not to bring it? Etc... Inquiring minds want to know.

HI Mashurst,
I'll answer but I think it is a waste of time. None of your questions are relevant to the basic issue which is emergency rescue. In order:

1. I have had it just under 5 years. As I mentioned I must get a battery replacement in Dec to conform to ACR's (the manufacturer) requirements.

2. I don't remember exactly except it was easy. You must fill out a form on-line and provide contact info. As I said before, every year I receive an email asking me to confirm that I still have it and to verify my contact information. This all happens automatically due to the registration.

3. I have not tested it since I first got it.

4. It's a straight go/no go test. What is included I'm not sure. I do know that the self test is defined by Federal protocol. My bet is that the self test is pretty comprehensive but, in keeping with the simple user interface, it is invisible.

5. No, I'm coming up to my first battery replacement.

6. I paid $700.

7. I never leave it behind. Why would I? On a trip I keep it in my day pack. Ordinarily, it's kept in my center console of what ever vehicle I'm using.

Why are you asking these questions? I thought you had already bought one.

Sparky

 

[xtatik]

Why are you asking these questions? I thought you had already bought one.

Sparky

Sparky, you're confused. Go take a nap.:coffeedrink:

 

[Karma]

HI xtatic,
LOL, you are right. It was you who bought a PLB. I must keep the names straight. Sorry, Mashurst.

Sparky

 

[xtatik]

Ya the reviews on REIs site are kind of dismal.

Yeah but, I doubt many of these people had real knowledge or realistic expectations regarding these gizmos.
What I found more interesting was the other link that you put up that mapped the different rescues. It's very telling.... Less than half (IMO) were legitimate calls made with these devices. I'm not saying these people weren't in trouble and needed help. It just appears their situations were resultant from bad planning and dismal skills. Stories that read: "hiker became lost"(multiple cases), "ran out of water", or the one case I'm actually familiar with "one fell and became injured" and the story ends with "both hikers were treated for minor injuries" These people would be better off taking a "Map and Compass" or "Hike Planning" course rather than spending the money on a PLB first.
Here's a rescue that I'm very familiar with that was initiated by a SPOT. A young lady hiking the PCT, who at around the 200 mile mark comes down with acute Giardiasis. In all reality, it's a case of bad decisionmaking again. She should have pulled herself off the trail at Idyllwild, but ends up calling for help at one of the worst spots on the early miles of the trail...Snow Creek below Fuller Ridge. This is a very windy area (above Banning/Cabazon area), with a large wind farm nearby. A very cool video showing a pilot and crew with mad skillz. Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04Xe4_SDTfM

 

[Karma]

HI,
Not trying to offer excuses but don't you think this is inevitable for a service offered to the public for free? But then again the PLB devices are not free and tend to be expensive. This will act as an impediment to a degree. Of course, folks should be prepared. And they should be careful. But, it's not going to happen universally. Is this a reason to cut off the service? I don't think so. Nor do I think it is a reason for me to ignore the service.

Since you can't do anything about it other than prepare yourself, I believe you just enjoy bitching. Your comments have no other purpose.

Sparky

 

[xtatik]

HI,
Not trying to offer excuses but don't you think this is inevitable for a service offered to the public for free? But then again the PLB devices are not free and tend to be expensive. This will act as an impediment to a degree. Of course, folks should be prepared. And they should be careful. But, it's not going to happen universally. Is this a reason to cut off the service? I don't think so. Nor do I think it is a reason for me to ignore the service.

Since you can't do anything about it other than prepare yourself, I believe you just enjoy bitching. Your comments have no other purpose.

Sparky

Interesting comments, and yes I do think it's inevitable. That's why I commented earlier regarding some controls on their use.......like licensing, which BTW, would also take care of the aforementioned problems regarding the lack of registration. But, some people have a distinct fear of such things...you know learning and tests and stuff like that:coffeedrink:.

Seriously, with sales for these units still somewhat low, but beginning to gain popularity within new outdoor groups...the issues already exist. The satellite beacon devices are nothing new, they are just finding their way into new markets. Also, the PLB devices are just plain cheap when compared to other contemporary electronic devices, and I'm certain they're destined to get cheaper in the end. Something will have to give and I don't think we've seen anywhere near what will be the end-all with these devices. In the end, I think they will all offer limited 2-way communication in order to facilitate a confirmation at each end. Essentially, they'll all become some derivation of a satphone. This 2-way thing is one thing that is provided by other forms of communication devices, but is lacking in the current satellite signaling devices.

My bottom line is this.....where you're completely enamored with them, I just like em', and I never said otherwise. I use mine where it best fits my activities and I happen to do a lot outside and away from my truck. On land and while on foot, where weight and bulk are a concern...I'll carry a lightweight satellite signalling device. This has been my point throughout this thread and the other abominable thread.

I began this thread in order to bring some more expert info in from outside this group. After watching the other thread deteriorate due to a mass of misinformation regarding PLB's and your preconceived and misguided attitudes toward other viable devices and services.

 

[Karma]

HI xtatik,
I think it is likely that some sort of licensing may become necessary as you suggest. However, I can also see why licensing would be opposed by those who do not want to discourage life saving in general. I can see a point to this. I know that even now, certain regions charge for their SAR services, even for legitimate rescues. I believe Moab is one of the areas. Apparently, the rescue volume so high that the funding for for SAR is not covering expenses. It may come to this in all areas. One problem with licensing is it requires a whole new organization along with record keeping, fee collection mechanisms, rules, and enforcement.

The possible outfall of formal limiting of outdoor activity is too grim to contemplate and I would be afraid to support it. I don't think there is any easy answer.

As outdoor activity increases, and there is no reason to think they won't, changes to these systems and services will have to occur. There is no denying that SAR is a needed thing. As is said, be careful for what you wish.

Sparky

 

[Karma]

HI Mashurst,
As a follow up to your question concerning my PLB's seft test mode, I dug thru my files and came up with some information for you.

In the manual there is a paragraph for Self Test. It states that the following items are tested:

1. Data Integrity and memory
2. 406 MHz Synthesizer
3. RF Power/Battery
4. GPS Header

These tests can be performed as often as desired since they require little battery power. They are go/no go tests.

There are several other self test modes but all but ones above initiate a satellite contact but not an emergency request (meaning a full power RF signal is sent). A false alarm is avoided due to the fact that the beacon signal is suppressed. These additional modes do require significant battery power due to the radio transmission. You are warned to use these modes seldom so as to not drain the battery. If the battery is detected to have lost an hour or more of operational power, the test is a no go.

Hope this helps.

Sparky

 

[xtatik]

One problem with licensing is it requires a whole new organization along with record keeping, fee collection mechanisms, rules, and enforcement.

The possible outfall of formal limiting of outdoor activity is too grim to contemplate and I would be afraid to support it. I don't think there is any easy answer.

As outdoor activity increases, and there is no reason to think they won't, changes to these systems and services will have to occur. There is no denying that SAR is a needed thing. As is said, be careful for what you wish.

Sparky

The FCC already controls the use and distribution issues concerning these devices and they already have the infrastructure to easily handle all the issues you've mentioned....no new organization needed.

I don't think there would be any "limiting of outdoor activity" if these devices required licensing. People will still head outdoors just as they did before satellite signaling devices existed. It might play a role in limiting the types of people who venture out. No doubt devices like this could entice both skilled and unskilled to push limits and judgment. My biggest concern is that is gives a false security nudge to those who are completely unfit for backcountry travel.

 

[Mash5]

Wow I'm out for a few days and I miss the whole thing

HI Mashurst, I have not tested it since I first got it.

I find this shocking. For a guy that puts his faith in this thing as the ultimate in reliability you still trust it even without any evidence to support that fact over nearing 5 years?

You are warned to use these modes seldom so as to not drain the battery. If the battery is detected to have lost an hour or more of operational power, the test is a no go.

‘Seldom’ I think, surely means more often than 5 years. The fact that it will warn if it has drained too far means there is no risk that testing would leave you with inadequate battery.

You are going out think yourself to your detriment. Again, I think you are picking nits.

You may want to pick a few nits here and do a bit of thinking. There is no way I would blindly trust an electronic gizmo, no matter how well made, after 5 years of bouncing around in the back of my jeep untested.

Tell me I have misunderstood you here Sparky. Now I'm afraid for your safety.

 

[Karma]

HI.
Don't argue with me. I just want to save battery life. And yes, I do trust them. There is no choice because the alternatives are worse. I think I'm going to leave this subject. I'm really tired of being beat to death by you and others who really don't know what you are talking about. Do what ever you think is right. I gave you the information you asked for honestly and faithfully. Get off my back.

Sparky, signing off.