Fording Depth vs. Snorkel Height

lugueto

Adventurer
If someone gets their vehicle in salt water, it will start rusting noticeably within a few days. I don't cross salt water, no one should.

Agreed: A snorkel will not turn your vehicle into a submarine. Deciding where and when you cross a water is the part when the driver saves the vehicle and not the snorkel. If you cross water above your waist, you're screwed with or without a snorkel. If you cross water with moderately strong currents, you're risking a lot. And although the discussion has veered from "does a snorkel work" from "You shouldn't drive your car into water", you raise some interesting points.

Indeed, you can further modify vehicles to make them safer during water crossings, but that doesn't mean they wont survive and will necessarily die slowly because of it. I have, and know of, a bunch of trucks me and my buddies still drive today. Mind you, these aren't trail trucks (The types people break and don't care for because they don't depend on them for anything else). They're long distance expedition built vehicles, some of which are daily driven (including mine).

Raising differential, transmission and transfer case breathers is a necessity. The healthy use of dielectric grease helps a lot on vulnerable connections (like distributor connections, main electrical connections). I find water crossings are usually quick enough to avoid water coming into the cabin, keeping your door seals in good check is usually enough for most water crossings. Get stuck mid-stream and water ingress is absolutely inevitable.

I usually turn off all electronics before I begin crossing: A/C, stereo, main lights (if driving at night). I only keep aux lights and my 2m HAM (overhead). The computers in our LC's are inside the dashboard, so if you get water high enough to reach it, you probably won't be using that vehicle much ever again either way.
 

Retired Tanker

Explorer
The need for a snorkel in civilian vehicles for water is a waste of time. I say this from experience of 12 years of training the US military and 45 years of 4-wheeling.

KISS - The military vehicles are built for deep water crossings. They have fording switches which turn off unnecessary electric. They also have the wiring sealed to keep out the water. The military vehicles are not shooting for a long life.


https://www.facebook.com/panzerreality/videos/1200312313360845/


I actually got interested in SCUBA working with the French Army. They put a great deal of emphasis on doing deep water fording. So they train their tankers how to use "pony bottles" to breathe while escaping a submerged but disabled tank.
 

BigSwede

The Credible Hulk
When you drop the nose of the truck into a hole the height is helpful. Suddenly it isn't that high.
This is true. In this picture:


the floor of my Trooper is filling with water (if you can call it that), but the (factory) intake is nice and dry. But when I went to back out, the angle got pretty steep. Suddenly that intake was starting to take on water. So I had to shut it down and wait for a tug.
 

NMC_EXP

Explorer
Seriously deep water fording.

If you were soldiering in the Viet Nam era you may have seen the Dodge M37 and M37B1 3/4T trucks.

These had a gasoline powered, inline flathead 6 and sealed, waterproof ignition and charging systems. Fording kits consisted of snorkels for intake and exhaust. Could not find it just now but there is a training film of one being driven thru water deep enough so that the only things above the surface are the drivers head and the snorkels.

I recommend this youtube vid as a fine example of deep water fording with an M37. He even caught a fish in the process:

https://youtu.be/x_vW7ibU4Kw

I owned a 1962 M37B1, truck, cargo, 3/4T, w/winch. Sadly, it along with a dozen other classic vehicles was destroyed in a storage building fire.
 

Kmrtnsn

Explorer
This is true. In this picture:


the floor of my Trooper is filling with water (if you can call it that), but the (factory) intake is nice and dry. But when I went to back out, the angle got pretty steep. Suddenly that intake was starting to take on water. So I had to shut it down and wait for a tug.

Smart move on your part, shutting it down to prevent hydro-locking and destroying that motor. People may make fun of my AEV snorkel but having crossed Afton Canyon a couple of times during winter storms I call it, "CHEAP INSURANCE".
 

SilicaRich

Wandering Inverted
I always hate these discussions on forums. I think it completely depends on what you drive, and where you live, but even 'where you live' is subjective. Just cause you live in the Arizona desert doesn't mean you don't take trips to Colorado and venture through water crossings. I feel like when everything is done right, it's a worthy investment to keep your engine dry, clean, and safe.

Then again, I will not argue that 80% of Jeep owners buy them for bling.
 

ExplorerTom

Explorer
Rim Rocker Trail, 160 miles, much of it looked like this:

The dust even changed color:

And I was running second so the first guy could map the trail.

Now due to my lift, my wheel well liner is gone. The front right tire churns up the dust and the air box intake, which used to be separated from the tire, is now exposed to all of that dust. I was sucking in my own dust more than anyone else's! My filter would be VERY dirty, even after a day wheeling trip.

I added a snorkel and now my filter gets dirty at about the same rate as my street driven vehicles.

I added mine PURELY for dust. If I'm in water that deep, I need a paddle, not a snorkel.
 

(none)

Adventurer
For anyone curious about the dirt intake, I now have over 6,000 miles on my Syclone precleaner on the AEV snorkel on my JK. I switched from the ram air mount to the Syclone hoping to quell some of the dust, bug and other debris seemingly being ingested by the airfilter. My previous airfilter made it one oil change before it was had turned gray/brown, mostly from normal driving, but also a few weekends offroad.

Since the change, I just (as of Monday) returned from a 4500 mile trip to (and through) Colorado and back. 3 days were spent off road, plus some dusty towns, dirt roads, long highways stretches, etc. I checked my air filter, it's still completely white, although there are a few small brown objects (maybe from some trees) in there. Exponentially better than before.

Previous post: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/159854-Snorkel-Pre-Cleaner-Options
 

Stryder106

Explorer
Well I have a snorkel on my Avalanche - and while you guys have mentioned the science behind dust dispersion and the military prep for water - no one has yet to mention the worst of them all - silt. Fender deep, talcum-like silt that invades every possible area it can. Hitting a 2' deep 1/4 mile long stretch of that stuff with my stock air intake right at the silt level - was all the experience I needed to buy and fab a Safari Snorkel for a Toyota onto my Chevy. I floored it and did some real specific wheel placement and trophy trucked through it at 70mph to not sink - but when we finally got to a place where I could stop - I literally shook the silt out of my air filter.

Now - in comparison from driving with my snorkel vs driving with the stock airbox - night and day on how clean my filter is now and how much better my truck runs.

I agree with the poster who mentioned that it depends on how close you are following someone else and if your inner fenders have been removed. I also agree with the poster who mentioned the long trails of dust and it's effects. Dust is dirt mixed with air. Dirt is heavier than air - it takes longer to rise and sooner or later will settle to the ground - thus increasing it's concentration. Timing accounts for a lot in that top illustration.

While none of the below pictures are of my rig, they all do pretty well illustrate the benefits of a snorkel when you consider where the stock air intake opening would have been in each of these situations:
ARB.jpg

ARB100Series1206_191.jpg

ARBWaterCrossingBlind0214_181-480x280.jpg
 

DRTYTOY

Observer
Smart move on your part, shutting it down to prevent hydro-locking and destroying that motor. People may make fun of my AEV snorkel but having crossed Afton Canyon a couple of times during winter storms I call it, "CHEAP INSURANCE".

I agree. I hydro locked the engine on my first truck, a '93 Yota pickup. Granted the air intake on that truck was in a bad spot, right behind the passenger side head light. When I purchased my tacoma I put a snorkel on for cheap insurance as well. $400 for a snorkel or $4,000 for a rebulit motor. As a added bonus I guess I have more dust protection also even though that concept is up for debate.

Even if someone installs one just for the "bling" factor.......... Who actually cares? It's thier money and their vehicle. I can't count the number of JK's in my area on 35's with half the smitty bilt catolog bolted that don't have a scratch on them. If that is the look they want, more power to them.
 

Rando

Explorer
I certainly don't care what other people choose to bolt to the vehicles, but there is value in discussing whether an accessory actually works for the proposed application. If you want to get an engine ionizer for your car, that is your choice, but we can discuss whether it will really get you 30% better fuel efficiency and 20 more HP ;)
 

ExplorerTom

Explorer
While in traffic today, some lady in a Subaru saw mine and said she was going to add one to hers. Said she gets into some hairy situations.
 

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