Fourwheel Camper Personalization

03humpalot

New member
You need to start your own business. "White Dog upfitters" has a nice ring to it.

Thanks for taking the time to throw this up.
Im looking at an FWC fleet flatbed later this year and the lack of options for cold weather systems is making me cringe. At a minimum ill need a a diesel heater/water heater/and possibly cooktop installed, would like circuit breakers vs. fuses as well, and will be tossing the standup fridge for an "offroad" style chest fridge freezer unit. Then i just have to find the 42 different places to get all that crap installed.

Seriously,
get yourself a side gig started!
 

knoxswift

Active member
Your chubby hole/shelf. Is that a custom insert or did you purchase somewhere? Would you post the purchase link if you bought it? I like that ALOT! My bear spray is always just rolling around...LOL!
I made a similar toilet riser but I didn't think to keep it hollow for storage! LOL Guess what I'm going to do next weekend! THANKS!
 

White Dog

Member
Your chubby hole/shelf. Is that a custom insert or did you purchase somewhere? Would you post the purchase link if you bought it? I like that ALOT! My bear spray is always just rolling around...LOL!
I made a similar toilet riser but I didn't think to keep it hollow for storage! LOL Guess what I'm going to do next weekend! THANKS!

I made the cubby for the bear spray/flashlight/bear bangers. FWC left about 1 1/2" between the outside face of the cabinet and the plastic liner in the propane well (on my Grandby the 2 - 10 lb propane tanks are in the very back drivers-side below the fridge). There's no space that can be wasted in a camper. The build is pretty easy: a piece of 3/8" Baltic Birch is the back and a bit of close-grained hardwood for the frame (I think I used either Birch or Maple scraps from another project). The finish is just rattle-can semi-gloss black. I seems to stand up quite well.
 

White Dog

Member
You need to start your own business. "White Dog upfitters" has a nice ring to it.

Thanks for taking the time to throw this up.
Im looking at an FWC fleet flatbed later this year and the lack of options for cold weather systems is making me cringe. At a minimum ill need a a diesel heater/water heater/and possibly cooktop installed, would like circuit breakers vs. fuses as well, and will be tossing the standup fridge for an "offroad" style chest fridge freezer unit. Then i just have to find the 42 different places to get all that crap installed.

Seriously,
get yourself a side gig started!

There's no fun in working for money. Retirement is about doing what you want to do and helping others. Sometimes I swap my expertise for someone else's. I do a fair amount of teaching but that only generates a bit of cash to support my shop habit - a wonderful addiction.

I'll try not to turn this into a rant . . .

My Dad always said: "We spend the first third of our lives wishing for 'stuff', the second third collecting it and the last third getting rid of it". I now understand. My wife and I try to minimize our consumerism (tough after more than half a century of being brain washed), buy local and support local businesses when we can and buy Canadian (or American) even if it cost more. We will pay a premium for good service especially if it's a local business. We belong to every co-op that fits into our lifestyle. Finally, we take pride in never having spent a dime in Walmart for the last 25 years (we do overnight in their parking lots occasionally though).

Sorry, that did turn into a bit of a rant.
 
Last edited:

whwv

Observer
Good stuff. I sold my FWC last year, but taking some ideas from here to apply to my Sprinter. Thanks for taking the time to post.
 

wsears

New member
White Dog: I also went down the Dometic route in our 2005 FWC Hawk...and it has not served us well, especially in any kind of heat, despite two computer fans, insulation, 290W solar up on top, etc. Can't wait to hear/see your solution take shape... We've considered Engel, etc...
 

White Dog

Member
When we last left White Dog . . .

It's been a long winter here on the Canadian prairies. My wife had some medical issues that needed attention so we stuck pretty close to home. Never one for a lack of things to do, I had lots of personal and volunteer projects on the go but now its time to get back to the fun stuff.

This year's top projects are: install lift shocks on the FWC Grandby (easy one!), build the new cooler/fridge system, and build some real storage and organization into the back seat of the Tundra. They will probably be in reverse order to this list only because the Grandby is still snoozing in its little shed where its a bit tight for proper construction. I can't raise the top so I have to work bent over and as I get older working bent over gets older too. With age comes wisdom.

Before I get into the Tundra storage thing (which has started), I should bring followers up to date on what I've decided about refrigeration.

Last year, the Dometic front-opening fridge came out - for good. It just used too much power and really didn't keep stuff cold in hot weather especially in the door. I think I mentioned it was referred to by someone in the industry as 'a good idea poorly executed'. Maybe they have improved in the last 7 years but I'm not going to risk it. Last fall, I was planning on building my own replacement, buying a new compressor system and adding a lot of features (and insulation) Dometic didn't. However, over the winter I've been studying all the online information from every manufacturer I could find. With pages of notes on my desk, I've come up with a new plan.

The overriding limitation, other than power consumption, was space. I didn't really want to get into a rebuild of all the cabinets in the Grandby. FWC did a pretty good build job and I like the layout. So, I needed to use the space that was there.

517722

I also decided that a top-opening cooler would actually be more convenient rather than always bending over to see what was at the back of the fridge - there's that bending over thing again. I know cooler layouts are notorious for items settling but I think I can live with the trade off. So what fits the space? Of all the models from all the manufacturers, the Engel 45 fits the space the best. I will build it into a rollout tray and there is enough space to add extra insulation to the top, sides and front. Obviously I have to leave the back open to ventilate the compressor properly. I will get the model MT45F because I can adjust the baffle to vary the size of the freezer space. Here's how I think a typical 7-day unsupported refrigeration cycle will work. When I stock up on food, I will adjust the baffle to accommodate all the frozen goods. This could actually be up to the whole 45 litres on the Engel but experience suggests it will be just 2/3 of the volume. The risky stuff and foods that get used every day (milk, etc.) will go into the cooler side of the Engel. I always have the Yeti cooler behind the seat in the Tundra so fruit and veg will go into it. A bag of ice usually last 4 to 5 days in the Yeti and by that time I should have eaten my way through enough of the frozen stuff to be able to move the baffle and migrate the remainder of the Yeti food into the Engel. I should also have enough space to put a Yeti cold pack into the Engel freezer about day 2 or 3 then move it into the Yeti on day 4 to supplement the melting ice. By the end of the 7-day cycle, all the perishables should fit into the Engel. So there is my working hypothesis. I think it will work. Finally, there should be enough space above the Engel for a drawer which will become the dish, cup and glass storage spot.

What do I give up?

The Dometic was rated at 100 litres so my volume will be less than half but the Yeti will cover this off. The Engel will actually have more freezer space (up to 45 liters if I need it). The Dometic did have convenient storage space in the door and crispers but the door stuff (like milk) was often warmer than I would have liked. So there are sacrifices but I think I can make this work.

Why Engel?

Its the best physical fit for the space. Also, I've used an Engel and was reasonably impressed. I've read all the reviews and watched all the YouTube videos (that was a test!). Most of the perceived advantages of one make over the other seem to be splitting hairs. All of the top makes are good, reliable, efficient and, of course, expensive. But in this day and age, quality IS expensive. Then again, I think it always was. We are just to used to cheap imported stuff. The Engel will be removable so when my wife and I use her 4-Runner for shorter biking trips, we can take it along.

How much more efficient is this going to be? Well, the old Donmetic drew 4.5 amps (measured) and ran probably 90% of the time when the temperature was above 30 C (whatever that is in F). So lets say 4.5 amps for 20 out of 24 hours in a hot day which is 108 amps per day. That means nothing when I'm driving but I want to be able to be self sufficient without driving and my two 100 watt panels, flat on the roof of the Grandby put out maybe that amount on a good day. If the weather is cloudy or the panels in partial shade, half of that would be optimistic. The Engel is rated at 2.5 amps and if I can get the run time down by 50% then I only need 25 amps per day. If this works out, I will be self sufficient virtually indefinitely (ever the optimist).

So that's my plan. I would appreciated any comments, suggestions or constructive criticism.

Back to stuff that is actually happening.

Today, I started on the storage system for the rear of the Tundra cab. Technically this should probably be another post over in the Toyota section but I think of the Tundra and Grandby as one unit working together so I would prefer to keep everything in this one thread. The Moderator will give me a nudge if s/he thinks otherwise. Anyway, my brother is visiting and he had taken the rear seat out of his Tundra so I got him to help with mine. As with most things on Toyotas, it was dead easy - 6 bolts, lift a bit and out it comes. The amount of usable space is amazing.

517759

My plan is to create a flat deck elevated above the seatbelt retractors, air bag compressor and factory jack mount. This 'basement' will be for rarely used stuff like spares, tow and snap straps, jumper cables etc. Access will be through removeable panels much like Goose Gear uses. The deck will have lots of US Cargo L-track strips for moveable tie down points. I will build 3 mounts for Sceptre Jerry cans along the back wall to carry extra water. These will be modular so I can have one, two or three depending on my expectations for the trip. The Yeti cooler is going to live behind the passengers seat. I will find space for the Hi-Lift and shovel. I like 20 mm ammo cans for tools and other hard stuff so a couple of those will find tiedown points. The camps chairs and BBQ will also find a home in here somewhere. Finally, I carry rarely used clothes in duffle bags that will also end up in this space. So all this stuff will be exactly where it needs to be; midway between the front and rear axles and low.

As far as I got today was the fitted frames for the deck and a bit of dreaming where things were going to go.

517760

It looks like the OEM fixed nuts for the seat are going to work just fine for the storage unt.

Thoughts, suggestions and experiences would be appreciated.
 
Last edited:

sg1

Adventurer
I have two rigs, one with an Engel 90 l front opening fridge and one with a 56 l Indel chest style top opening fridge. My Engel uses about 60-70 Ah per day, my Indel about 30 Ah per day at 30 c. This is very similar to what you observed or expect. The difference in my view has nothing to do with the make of the fridges. The reason the front opening ones use so much more energy is twofold: First they are optimized for internal volume at a given exterior size. Therefore insulation is thinner. Second: Every time you open the front door or the seal of the front door is less than perfect because of the movement of the truck cold air "falls out" because it is heavier than the surrounding warm air. chest style fridges tend zo have thicker insulation and the heavy cold air stays in the fridge if you open the lid. I will never use a front opening one again.
 

Desert Dan

Explorer
When we last left White Dog . . .

It's been a long winter here on the Canadian prairies. My wife had some medical issues that needed attention so we stuck pretty close to home. Never one for a lack of things to do, I had lots of personal and volunteer projects on the go but now its time to get back to the fun stuff.

This year's top projects are: install lift shocks on the FWC Grandby (easy one!), build the new cooler/fridge system, and build some real storage and organization into the back seat of the Tundra. They will probably be in reverse order to this list only because the Grandby is still snoozing in its little shed where its a bit tight for proper construction. I can't raise the top so I have to work bent over and as I get older working bent over gets older too. With age comes wisdom.

Before I get into the Tundra storage thing (which has started), I should bring followers up to date on what I've decided about refrigeration.

Last year, the Dometic front-opening fridge came out - for good. It just used too much power and really didn't keep stuff cold in hot weather especially in the door. I think I mentioned it was referred to by someone in the industry as 'a good idea poorly executed'. Maybe they have improved in the last 7 years but I'm not going to risk it. Last fall, I was planning on building my own replacement, buying a new compressor system and adding a lot of features (and insulation) Dometic didn't. However, over the winter I've been studying all the online information from every manufacturer I could find. With pages of notes on my desk, I've come up with a new plan.

The overriding limitation, other than power consumption, was space. I didn't really want to get into a rebuild of all the cabinets in the Grandby. FWC did a pretty good build job and I like the layout. So, I needed to use the space that was there.

View attachment 517722

I also decided that a top-opening cooler would actually be more convenient rather than always bending over to see what was at the back of the fridge - there's that bending over thing again. I know cooler layouts are notorious for items settling but I think I can live with the trade off. So what fits the space? Of all the models from all the manufacturers, the Engel 45 fits the space the best. I will build it into a rollout tray and there is enough space to add extra insulation to the top, sides and front. Obviously I have to leave the back open to ventilate the compressor properly. I will get the model MT45F because I can adjust the baffle to vary the size of the freezer space. Here's how I think a typical 7-day unsupported refrigeration cycle will work. When I stock up on food, I will adjust the baffle to accommodate all the frozen goods. This could actually be up to the whole 45 litres on the Engel but experience suggests it will be just 2/3 of the volume. The risky stuff and foods that get used every day (milk, etc.) will go into the cooler side of the Engel. I always have the Yeti cooler behind the seat in the Tundra so fruit and veg will go into it. A bag of ice usually last 4 to 5 days in the Yeti and by that time I should have eaten my way through enough of the frozen stuff to be able to move the baffle and migrate the remainder of the Yeti food into the Engel. I should also have enough space to put a Yeti cold pack into the Engel freezer about day 2 or 3 then move it into the Yeti on day 4 to supplement the melting ice. By the end of the 7-day cycle, all the perishables should fit into the Engel. So there is my working hypothesis. I think it will work. Finally, there should be enough space above the Engel for a drawer which will become the dish, cup and glass storage spot.

What do I give up?

The Dometic was rated at 100 litres so my volume will be less than half but the Yeti will cover this off. The Engel will actually have more freezer space (up to 45 liters if I need it). The Dometic did have convenient storage space in the door and crispers but the door stuff (like milk) was often warmer than I would have liked. So there are sacrifices but I think I can make this work.

Why Engel?

Its the best physical fit for the space. Also, I've used an Engel and was reasonably impressed. I've read all the reviews and watched all the YouTube videos (that was a test!). Most of the perceived advantages of one make over the other seem to be splitting hairs. All of the top makes are good, reliable, efficient and, of course, expensive. But in this day and age, quality IS expensive. Then again, I think it always was. We are just to used to cheap imported stuff. The Engel will be removable so when my wife and I use her 4-Runner for shorter biking trips, we can take it along.

How much more efficient is this going to be? Well, the old Donmetic drew 4.5 amps (measured) and ran probably 90% of the time when the temperature was above 30 C (whatever that is in F). So lets say 4.5 amps for 20 out of 24 hours in a hot day which is 108 amps per day. That means nothing when I'm driving but I want to be able to be self sufficient without driving and my two 100 watt panels, flat on the roof of the Grandby put out maybe that amount on a good day. If the weather is cloudy or the panels in partial shade, half of that would be optimistic. The Engel is rated at 2.5 amps and if I can get the run time down by 50% then I only need 25 amps per day. If this works out, I will be self sufficient virtually indefinitely (ever the optimist).

So that's my plan. I would appreciated any comments, suggestions or constructive criticism.

Back to stuff that is actually happening.

Today, I started on the storage system for the rear of the Tundra cab. Technically this should probably be another post over in the Toyota section but I think of the Tundra and Grandby as one unit working together so I would prefer to keep everything in this one thread. The Moderator will give me a nudge if s/he thinks otherwise. Anyway, my brother is visiting and he had taken the rear seat out of his Tundra so I got him to help with mine. As with most things on Toyotas, it was dead easy - 6 bolts, lift a bit and out it comes. The amount of usable space is amazing.

View attachment 517759

My plan is to create a flat deck elevated above the seatbelt retractors, air bag compressor and factory jack mount. This 'basement' will be for rarely used stuff like spares, tow and snap straps, jumper cables etc. Access will be through removeable panels much like Goose Gear uses. The deck will have lots of US Cargo L-track strips for moveable tie down points. I will build 3 mounts for Sceptre Jerry cans along the back wall to carry extra water. These will be modular so I can have one, two or three depending on my expectations for the trip. The Yeti cooler is going to live behind the passengers seat. I will find space for the Hi-Lift and shovel. I like 20 mm ammo cans for tools and other hard stuff so a couple of those will find tiedown points. The camps chairs and BBQ will also find a home in here somewhere. Finally, I carry rarely used clothes in duffle bags that will also end up in this space. So all this stuff will be exactly where it needs to be; midway between the front and rear axles and low.

As far as I got today was the fitted frames for the deck and a bit of dreaming where things were going to go.

View attachment 517760

It looks like the OEM fixed nuts for the seat are going to work just fine for the storage unt.

Thoughts, suggestions and experiences would be appreciated.
That storage area looks great. Maybe make space for long items like a highlift jack or shovel etc? I want to see your platform and access lids.
 

White Dog

Member
. . . my Indel about 30 Ah per day at 30 c. . . .. chest style fridges tend to have thicker insulation and the heavy cold air stays in the fridge if you open the lid. I will never use a front opening one again.

Thanks SG1. It looks like my calculations are reasonable based on your experience. I agree that many upright fridges are thin on insulation. On my Dometic, stuff in the door was barely cool on hot days. To be fair, I think the two configurations are designed for different markets. The uprights for the RV trade and chest for the overland (and others of course). I've met folks with Dometic chest fridges who really like them. I also see a couple of companies, Indel/Webasto for example, are starting to produce seemingly high quality uprights. I think WanderingBison on this forum has an Indel. I would we curious to hear about his experiences.
 

White Dog

Member
That storage area looks great. Maybe make space for long items like a highlift jack or shovel etc? I want to see your platform and access lids.

Thanks for the suggestion Dan. I am thinking about the Highlift and shovel. The Highlift is a bit too long to go vertical so I will need to think horizontal. Having a 30 lb piece of steel right behind my head gives me a bit of a twitch should I ever get into an accident or roll-over. If it ends up in the cab, I will be using the best mount I can find. Any suggestions on mounts?
 

RAM5500 CAMPERTHING

OG Portal Member #183
Excellent Post White Dog!

I have a 2014 Tundra DC with a 2018 Hawk (slide in), that I'm about to mount on a flatbed for storage.

I share the same frustration with the optional fridge FWC included.

Before i had my FWC, i had the ARB 60qt mounted inside the rear passenger area of the cab in my truck. It is still there and i use it a lot more than the one in the camper.

If you click on the link below, although my writeup needs a lot of updating, you can see how i mounted it and such, very similar to your idea.

ARB and Engel are very similar and quality and efficency. It basically boils down to which dimensions work best for you.

Cheers
 

White Dog

Member
Thanks Boston!

I looked at your site. Lots of useful information there. I will be following up on some of the leads especially the larger fuel tank. The 100 litre tank they used back when ours were built can be a little problematic. I am planning a trip which has some pretty long stretches without fuel stations so I will be taking a close look at the Transfer Flow tank. How is that working out? Any problems with vapour control and error messages? I checked with my Toyota dealer and they have been told by Toyota Canada that the new 140 litre tank can't be retrofitted into the older Tundras.

I think I'm going to go with the Engel MT45F largely because it is the best fit for the now vacant space where the Dometic used to live. It also gives me the versatility of an adjustable freezer space which I will make good use of. Engel has a good reputation and their rated power draw is less than half of the old Dometic. I hope to get back to this project in about a month. I have way to much stuff to do. This retirement thing is exhausting.

Cheers!
 

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