Frame Strength, Who to Believe! The RV Sales Guy or the New Truck Dealer? Maybe Neither?

[Mike W.]

And don’t expect to be able to drive that big rig ⬆ in California if it’s an older diesel burning truck (with weight >14,000 lbs).

And that big ER you own? Yeah, that not gonna fly in California any more either if it’s earlier than a 2010 model…

Own a 2010 or Older Big Rig or Bus In California? It's Now Banned

California is the first state banning all semi-trucks and buses made before 2010 starting January 1, 2023.

www.motorbiscuit.com

The California law doesn't effect RVs or non commercial licensed rigs.

 

[Over The Silent Planet]

Hard to say.
Did the dealer upsell the customer OR
Did the customer INSIST on putting the camper on the truck.

Ultimately if you are stupid enough to think bigger is better Darwanism and Karma will collide.

Yeah. IF the salesperson recommended that camper or upsold the guy, I think he should be at least partially responsible. I know that in Kentucky at least, every salesperson at a dealership must maintain a dealer license.

Seems that an easy way to prevent stuff like this from happening would be to record every weight and capacity of the individual truck and the camper that will go on it, as a record for future potential issues. Make the customer sign a waiver if he insists on buying a camper that exceeds his door jamb numbers. And if the licensed salesperson pushed for the bigger sale that led to catastrophic failure or even injury or death, hold them liable as well. They should lose their license at minimum.

Putting some liability on the table for dealers for the recommendations they make to customers will make their recommendations change overnight. They’ll all of a sudden become actually knowledgeable about weights and capacities.

 

[rruff]

Seems that an easy way to prevent stuff like this from happening would be to record every weight and capacity of the individual truck and the camper that will go on it, as a record for future potential issues. Make the customer sign a waiver if he insists on buying a camper that exceeds his door jamb numbers. And if the licensed salesperson pushed for the bigger sale that led to catastrophic failure or even injury or death, hold them liable as well. They should lose their license at minimum.

Not very libertarian of you... ?

I'm glad that in the US we are still treated like adults in some areas of life... in other words you might have to engage a couple brain cells when you make a purchase like this. Not very many! Maybe spend 5 minutes investigating the matter on this medium that we all like to waste time on.

Anybody who believes that salesmen can be counted on to know anything, or can be counted on to tell you the truth... well....

 

[FAW3]

I believe it's a frame defect, not caused by general overloading. A frame doesn't fail by overloading per se, it's the bending moment. As rear heavy as that camper is, it's no where close to this:

1 ton chassis are designed to lift 3000 lbs 6' behind the rear axle, day in day out.

That's way more bending stress than a 6000 lbs camper with a CG slightly behind the rear axle.

Just a couple of observations:

1: Note where the lifting ram and primary hinge point are on that tow rig. Both are IFO the rear axle. The loading is well forward of the rear of the truck body not "hung off the rear".

2: Regular street/pavement use vs. typical forest roads, rough roads & off pavement overland use will introduce huge differences in frame stress and flex.

Just my opinion: I am willing to say that based on the ACTUAL weight - both gross and rear axle, the center of gravity load position, the addition of the rear bike rack, and the method of mounting the camper that focused stress right behind the cab that this was a poorly considered and executed build for overlanding use.

The value in this incident for our community is to demonstrate the many factors and considerations that MUST be taken into account when setting up a sound, safe, well functioning truck camper.

 

[AbleGuy]

I dunno, to me it seems that making salespeople or dealers liable for the damage done by what owners decide to put on their trucks makes about as much sense as making them liable for the wrecks caused by drivers buying and recklessly driving their high HP, super powerful cars. ?

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

Just a couple of observations:

1: Note where the lifting ram and primary hinge point are on that tow rig. Both are IFO the rear axle. The loading is well forward of the rear of the truck body not "hung off the rear".

2: Regular street/pavement use vs. typical forest roads, rough roads & off pavement overland use will introduce huge differences in frame stress and flex.

Just my opinion: I am willing to say that based on the ACTUAL weight - both gross and rear axle, the center of gravity load position, the addition of the rear bike rack, and the method of mounting the camper that focused stress right behind the cab that this was a poorly considered and executed build for overlanding use.

The value in this incident for our community is to demonstrate the many factors and considerations that MUST be taken into account when setting up a sound, safe, well functioning truck camper.

Let's create a thread featuring these types of incidents.

On the other hand, if someone needs a starter project this is a great donor.

 

[JaSAn]

Not very libertarian of you . . .
I'm glad that in the US we are still treated like adults in some areas of life . . .
Anybody who believes that salesmen can be counted on to know anything, or can be counted on to tell you the truth... well....

I tend towards libertarian, but . . .
There needs to be some common sense regulating of the RV industry. In the case of slide in camper manufacturer:

the actual weight of camper as built is clearly displayed​

and an estimated wet weight at max capacity​

and a minimum truck needed to safely haul it​

sales people schooled on the above​

For all RVs over 10,000 lbs:

something more rigorous than a class D license to drive the thing.​

liability limits adjusted for the damage these things can cause to others.​

I would be nice if the payload of each truck was easily found. My 2012 Ram door sticker is printed in 6 pt text; haven't found payload in the supplied 'Users Manual' yet.

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

I'm not big into labels, but common sense is still king.
If a rv salesman blows smoke up your Azzaroo and you can prove from the rv manufacturer that the product was misrepresented you have a case, otherwise, buyer beware, it's always been that way, nothing has changed.

 

[tacollie]

In my opinion this is 100% on the truck owner. He made expensive purchases and should have done his own research. On another form I read that he actually had two motorcycles off the back. The truck salesman and the camper salesman aren't responsible for that.

The only way to really regulate it would be random weight checks(I'm not a fan). A perfect example was our Tundra was under GVWR with the camper installed. I know because I hit a scale on the way back from getting it installed. On trips with all our gear, a dog, and supplies we were over GVWR. That being said if they treat it like commercial vehicles they would go by the axle ratings in which case our Tundra would have been fine. I'm pretty sure the guy's RAM was over the axle rating which is impressive.

 

[AbleGuy]

The California law doesn't effect RVs or non commercial licensed rigs.

That’s ⬆️ what I was hoping.

I tried to find more detailed info on this new law and only found the other article I posted (different thread here) that said the law initially looked to include older RV’s… but that further negotiations were ongoing with the RV industry.

Do you have any links to share here referring to the exclusion you mentioned?

 

[Mike W.]

That’s ⬆ what I was hoping.

I tried to find more detailed info on this new law and only found the other article I posted (different thread here) that said the law initially looked to include older RV’s… but that further negotiations were ongoing with the RV industry.

Do you have any links to share here referring to the exclusion you mentioned?

Its pretty straight forward in California law. RVs don't fall into commercial restrictions. Never have due to great RV lobby. I also am state certified in diesel emissions and have a Commercial retrofit license.

Having said that RVs will be regulated in the near future, just how far that goes is still up in the air.

 

[rruff]

I tend towards libertarian, but . . .

So many "buts"! Why don't we simplify things and just make it the responsibility of the owner to do a very modest amount of investigation/clarification... and thinking?

 

[rruff]

Note where the lifting ram and primary hinge point are on that tow rig. Both are IFO the rear axle. The loading is well forward of the rear of the truck body not "hung off the rear".

The load is in fact "hung way off the rear"! Regardless of the attachment point on the tow rig, that moment/torque (force x lever arm) gets transmitted to the frame... in fact the farther forward it is, the greater the lever arm and torque. The tow truck needs to support the vertical load that is hanging off the back, as well as this torque. It's no different than what's happened to the failed frame in this thread, except that the tow rig has been designed to specifically deal with this (much larger) load.

 

[NoDak]

Yep, sounds like if you have an old Prevost or MCI you might be moving and touring the rest of the USA. Alaska and North Dakota will likely welcome you.

We would but we are just all full up, unfortunately.

 

[Over The Silent Planet]

I dunno, to me it seems that making salespeople or dealers liable for the damage done by what owners decide to put on their trucks makes about as much sense as making them liable for the wrecks caused by drivers buying and recklessly driving their high HP, super powerful cars. ?

One can only buy a new camper from a licensed dealer, right? Dealers who sell a camper to a customer that is 2500lb too heavy for the customer’s truck shouldn’t be held liable? The customer should be 100% liable, even when the dealer encouraged them to make a dangerous purchase? Why is only one party on one side of this transaction liable?

This is something that can cause catastrophic failure and even injury or death. If a dealer recommended such a camper that caused such an outcome, it should be considered malpractice.