Frontier Nismo to Duramax - Should I?

[tombodad]

Hey everybody!

I currently drive a 2006 Nissan Frontier Nismo. Love it, great truck, but it's a bit small sometimes, and it's depreciating like crazy! It also has just over 100k on it, so little things will start to need replacement soon, most likely.
I have a fair amount of experience with diesels (firetrucks), but none with the duramax.

So, reasons for switching: Calculated, and will actually save me fuel expense each year (small amount), and I'll be driving a bigger, more capable vehicle, which holds it's value much longer. Am I missing anything?

The truck I'm looking at is a 2006 LLY CC SB 4x4. 88k miles, LT3, with a 6" lift, nice wheels, and good 35s. I am able to work the deal so I am paying about 23k for it, which seems like a great deal to me.

I understand the early 06's, with LLY engine code, are really LBZs mechanically, but with the LLY leftover tune, correct?

Other than the trans lines, any particular things to look for? Especially on the lift, as it will be my first lifted vehicle, other than a spacer/extended shackle on my Nismo.

Hope to be a member of the family soon!

Anyone care to talk me out of it?

 

[Buliwyf]

I wouldn't worry about it retaining it's value. If it suits your needs get it. It's going to lose value just as fast as anyting else. Especially since it's lifted. I'd avoid it unless the seller can show reciepts of what kit it is, and who installed it. On mildly lifted trucks a good drive is all that's really needed to make sure they're correct, but 6" on an IFS GMC.......it better be a good name brand kit installed right.

Or at least make sure it's got a really good price. Used lifted trucks sell $2000 less than a stock truck in my area, not $2000 more like many would think. Lifts hurt the value. I'd rather buy an unmolested stock truck and lift it myself.

Sometimes I can find a cheap bubba'd truck that just won't sell from a lot and make a low ball offer on it. And that works out good because I'm taking it to my local 4x4 shop for a complete suspension replacement ASAP anyways.

Other than all that I like the GMC Duramax trucks. Good engine that I respect as much as a Ford 7.3L, decent GM transmission, stout rear axle. I despise IFS, but it suits the needs of many.

Manual transfer case or push button? Push button isn't my cup o tea, but if you know how to bypass it or actuate the transfer case manually under the truck, incase it fails on the trail, it's fine.

Also make sure you drive enough Highway miles, or tow enough, to keep the Duramax engine cleaned out. I'm also not sure if an OX, ARB, or Detroit diff locker is available for the front diff on the new Chevy's? I haven't seen one yet.

 

[tombodad]

Thanks for the tips.
I do know the name brand of the lift (superlift), and it is considered a good quality, although maybe not the absolute best. I plan on a very thorogh inspection of everything, and while I'm not a lift expert, I will be able to tell if something is in good shape, and properly put together.
IFS does suit my needs, as this truck will never see more offroad than the occasional romp through fields, dirt roads, hunting and camping trips, etc. Primarily DD and tow vehicle.
It is push-button transfer case, which I don't prefer, but I will make sure and figure out how to do it manually. I remember getting a mid-80s Ford Ranger stuck in a wet lawn once upon a time that wouldn't go into 4wd due to the push-button switch.

 

[locrwln]

The steering components seem to be the weakest link in the front. So give everything including the balljoints a good look over. Other than that, not much else really goes wrong with them.

Great motor and tranny. The t-case can/will suffer from "pump rub" so check the rear passenger side of the t-case for a "weep" hole. If you see fluid, then it rubbed through already. Do a search on pump rub and it will answer all of your questions.

Good luck on whatever you choose to do.

Jack

 

[bfdiesel]

As long as the duramax is newer than 04 (LB7) you should be good to go. As said above front steering componants are weak which the lift and bigger tires will accelerate their wear and the np261/np263's have pump rub problems.

 

[LimaMikeMike]

There are some differences between an LLY and LBZ

(I'm not sure if linking to an other forum is a no-no but its a good read.)

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67521

I used to have a LMM 07.5 Duramax with emissions removed-basically a LBZ with a more powerful ECU and emissions. The LBZ is known to be a hot rod.

IMHO Duramax/Allison combo is a world class set up let down by a floppy, not very well thought out chassis (that was corrected just this year-2011).

 

[tombodad]

There seems to be a great deal of confusion here, but it seems that the truth, as supported in several areas, including the above link (thanks), is the same as outlined below, quoted from wikipedia:

The 2006 LLY (engine code "2") debuted in the beginning of 2006 and ended production with the start of the 2007 calendar year. Mechanically it is identical to the LBZ and is mated to the new 6 speed Allison transmission however it retained the LLY designation.

The LBZ (engine code "D") debuted in late 2006 and continued into 2007 sold only in the "classic" body style. It has a more powerful tune loaded into the computer that allows it to produce more power and torque.

Changes include:

Cylinder block casting and machining changes strengthen the bottom of the cylinder bores to support increased power and torque
Upgraded main bearing material increases durability
Revised piston design helps lower compression ratio to 16.8:1 from 17.5:1
Piston pin bore diameter increased for increased strength
Connecting rod “ I ” section is thicker for increased strength
Cylinder heads revised to accommodate lower compression and reduced cylinder firing pressure
Maximum injection pressure increased from 23,000 psi (1,585.8 bar) to more than 26,000 psi (1,792.6 bar)
Fuel delivered via higher-pressure pump, fuel rails, distribution lines and all-new, seven-hole fuel injectors
Fuel injectors spray directly onto glow plugs, providing faster, better-quality starts and more complete cold-start combustion for reduced emissions
Improved glow plugs heat up faster through an independent controller
Revised variable-geometry turbocharger is aerodynamically more efficient to help deliver smooth and immediate response and lower emissions
Air induction system re-tuned to enhance quietness
EGR has larger cooler to bring more exhaust into the system
First application of new, 32-bit E35 controller, which adjusts and compensates for the fuel flow to bolster efficiency and reduce emissions"

 

[1stDeuce]

I'll add some additional thoughts not yet covered... I have an '06 CCSB D/A truck, and it suits me well. BUT just this past weekend, I learned that a trail that I considered wide open in my jeep is a tight squeeze in the truck with a camper on the back... Think about where you take your Nissan, and if there are trees and turns galore, it's probably going to be a little tight in a full size with a camper riding in the bed, particularly with 6" of lift and big tires... If you're more often out in the open, then no big deal.

As for mileage, I think the '04.5's and 05's are a little better than the '06-07.5's. You can surf dieselplace for more on this... I know, everyone loves the idea of a 6-speed, but if you're putting a few sizes larger tire on anyway, 6th gear is really only good for higher speeds on the highway, and lots of people have kicked out mileage numbers that show it not to really make a difference. I think the drop in compression hurt efficiency some, and the 6-speed might just make up for it, but I don't see the value there. I know the power rating is higher on the LBZ's, but the previous trucks (LLY) were not far behind, and really only a tuner away from blowing even an LBZ away if that's what you want to do.

As for the chassis, opinions vary, but I don't agree that it's weak at all in stock form. Compared to anything else, GM has had the best frame strength for about two decades now. I watched an early 2000's dodge with a slide-in flex all over the place driving across a parking lot yesterday... People talk about beaming in the GM trucks like it's the end of the world, but it's really just the cab mounts getting excited... Not true frame flexing/beaming. My buddy's 2000 Super Duty was HORRENDOUS for beaming, where you could SEE the flex in the mirrors! My CC doesn't have problems with flex or beaming so far as I can tell. Is the IFS "weak"?? Well, if you're going to abuse it, it's going to break, but I've spent lots of time being pretty rough with mine, and several trucks at my last job that i did things with I would NEVER do to a truck I owned, and I have yet to break anything. It's a 7500lb truck EMPTY. It doesn't want to be jumped, and it doesn't want 37" tires in 4wd on pavement doing a max torque brake stand launch. Use it like it was intended and it's fine. My truck doesn't beat me up on trips like a Super Duty, or even a Dodge can. I have significant time in all three, and they do all have their solid points... If I wanted an offroad truck, I'd buy a Power Wagon. If I wanted a cheap but new truck that sat tall and looked "tough", and didn't care about the ride, I'd get a Ford. But I LOVE my GMC for long trips, hauling, and general "truck" use.

That said, I'd agree that you might want to pass on the 6" lifted truck. That's kinda stupid huge for these trucks, and the big tires that go along with that much lift are not going to treat the IFS well... Not to mention the mileage will SUCK with that much truck and tire. (likely worse than your Frontier, and fuel costs more...)

Finally, realize that with a diesel, if things go wrong with the engine or trans, it's expensive. Much lower cost to fix things on a gas truck, so you'll want to keep an emergency fund handy just in case...
Good luck!
Chris

 

[Scott Brady]

The cheapest car is typically the one you own. The NISMO is a sweet little ride.

 

[nmatcek]

The cheapest car is typically the one you own. The NISMO is a sweet little ride.

x2

 

[Buliwyf]

Superlift is good stuff. Most likely you have stock springs and torque rods so your spring rate should still be ok.

But there is a bracket lift that lowers the diff, or a Knuckle lift that lowers the knuckles.

The bracket lift is harder on ball joints and driveshafts, and has less ground clearance. Deosn't seem as tough to me. And often needs a CV front driveshaft to not vibrate. If it's a bracket lift I'd pass on it, or plan to swap it to a BDS lift. (Hopefully the Superlift stuff deosn't require hacking up the stock parts, I'd download the kits instructions before buying this truck.)
Braket lifts are easy to spot, looks like someone mounted a steel bridge under the front of the truck. Check out Superlifts kit pics.

The knuckle lift is superior, but is harder on the drive axles. It's usually a small braket lift combined with lowered knuckles. But the knuckle lifts increase the width of the front end. It's customary to use wheels that are spaced in narrower to keep the front from being too wide. Then useing a wheel spacer in the rear to make it as wide as the front if you plan on having the same sized wheels all the way around, which most do as tire rotations are important with trucks.

Even with the wheels spaced in 1" you'll still be about 1" wider in the front. If you use a 1" spacer on the rear, then the rear will be an inch narrower than the front. But at least you can get them close.

If it's a knuckle lift and the truck is level with the lift blocks or springs in the rear, I recommend lowering it an inch in the front by adjusting the torque rod keys. Usually the knuckle kits are 4-5" with the keys cranked to get that last inch. I like my trucks to be an inch lower in the front like stock anyways.


Just some things to look for.

 

[tombodad]

I'll add some additional thoughts not yet covered... I have an '06 CCSB D/A truck, and it suits me well. BUT just this past weekend, I learned that a trail that I considered wide open in my jeep is a tight squeeze in the truck with a camper on the back... Think about where you take your Nissan, and if there are trees and turns galore, it's probably going to be a little tight in a full size with a camper riding in the bed, particularly with 6" of lift and big tires... If you're more often out in the open, then no big deal.

As for mileage, I think the '04.5's and 05's are a little better than the '06-07.5's. You can surf dieselplace for more on this... I know, everyone loves the idea of a 6-speed, but if you're putting a few sizes larger tire on anyway, 6th gear is really only good for higher speeds on the highway, and lots of people have kicked out mileage numbers that show it not to really make a difference. I think the drop in compression hurt efficiency some, and the 6-speed might just make up for it, but I don't see the value there. I know the power rating is higher on the LBZ's, but the previous trucks (LLY) were not far behind, and really only a tuner away from blowing even an LBZ away if that's what you want to do.

As for the chassis, opinions vary, but I don't agree that it's weak at all in stock form. Compared to anything else, GM has had the best frame strength for about two decades now. I watched an early 2000's dodge with a slide-in flex all over the place driving across a parking lot yesterday... People talk about beaming in the GM trucks like it's the end of the world, but it's really just the cab mounts getting excited... Not true frame flexing/beaming. My buddy's 2000 Super Duty was HORRENDOUS for beaming, where you could SEE the flex in the mirrors! My CC doesn't have problems with flex or beaming so far as I can tell. Is the IFS "weak"?? Well, if you're going to abuse it, it's going to break, but I've spent lots of time being pretty rough with mine, and several trucks at my last job that i did things with I would NEVER do to a truck I owned, and I have yet to break anything. It's a 7500lb truck EMPTY. It doesn't want to be jumped, and it doesn't want 37" tires in 4wd on pavement doing a max torque brake stand launch. Use it like it was intended and it's fine. My truck doesn't beat me up on trips like a Super Duty, or even a Dodge can. I have significant time in all three, and they do all have their solid points... If I wanted an offroad truck, I'd buy a Power Wagon. If I wanted a cheap but new truck that sat tall and looked "tough", and didn't care about the ride, I'd get a Ford. But I LOVE my GMC for long trips, hauling, and general "truck" use.

That said, I'd agree that you might want to pass on the 6" lifted truck. That's kinda stupid huge for these trucks, and the big tires that go along with that much lift are not going to treat the IFS well... Not to mention the mileage will SUCK with that much truck and tire. (likely worse than your Frontier, and fuel costs more...)

Finally, realize that with a diesel, if things go wrong with the engine or trans, it's expensive. Much lower cost to fix things on a gas truck, so you'll want to keep an emergency fund handy just in case...
Good luck!
Chris

I agree on all points. Not too worried about negatives of larger size, I don't typically do too tight of stuff anyways. IFS should prove plenty capable enough for me. The lift, while it looks cool, wasn't necessarily on the shopping requirements, but stock on the trucks is also very looowww, and I would likely have run into problems being much lower and also longer/wider than I'm used to... Glad to hear your perception of GM as the most "Daily-Driver Friendly" of the HDs seems to fall in line with my own thoughts.

The cheapest car is typically the one you own. The NISMO is a sweet little ride.

I completely agree. This, however, is also a financial decision. I am currently upside-down in my Nissan, and by getting a good deal on this truck, trading my nissan, and financing it a bit longer term, I get lower monthly payments, lower interest rate, gap insurance, and a vehicle that holds it's value much better, resulting in a vehicle I can get out from being upside down in a couple years. My nissan, I would not be able to do so, until it is paid off, and worth very little due to the mileage and depreciation. I realize it's not the smartest possible thing (financing a vehicle at all is dumb. lease or cash is much better), but it is the best I can do in my current situation.

Superlift is good stuff. Most likely you have stock springs and torque rods so your spring rate should still be ok.

But there is a bracket lift that lowers the diff, or a Knuckle lift that lowers the knuckles.

The bracket lift is harder on ball joints and driveshafts, and has less ground clearance. Deosn't seem as tough to me. And often needs a CV front driveshaft to not vibrate. If it's a bracket lift I'd pass on it, or plan to swap it to a BDS lift. (Hopefully the Superlift stuff deosn't require hacking up the stock parts, I'd download the kits instructions before buying this truck.)
Braket lifts are easy to spot, looks like someone mounted a steel bridge under the front of the truck. Check out Superlifts kit pics.

The knuckle lift is superior, but is harder on the drive axles. It's usually a small braket lift combined with lowered knuckles. But the knuckle lifts increase the width of the front end. It's customary to use wheels that are spaced in narrower to keep the front from being too wide. Then useing a wheel spacer in the rear to make it as wide as the front if you plan on having the same sized wheels all the way around, which most do as tire rotations are important with trucks.

Even with the wheels spaced in 1" you'll still be about 1" wider in the front. If you use a 1" spacer on the rear, then the rear will be an inch narrower than the front. But at least you can get them close.

If it's a knuckle lift and the truck is level with the lift blocks or springs in the rear, I recommend lowering it an inch in the front by adjusting the torque rod keys. Usually the knuckle kits are 4-5" with the keys cranked to get that last inch. I like my trucks to be an inch lower in the front like stock anyways.


Just some things to look for.

Thanks! Just did a bit of research on Bracket vs. Knuckle. I'm thinking this is the knuckle (?), although I haven't seen it in person, and this is the best pic I can find:

 

[tombodad]

Well, 'too good to be true usually is'... branded title ah well, still on the prowl!

 

[locrwln]

Well, 'too good to be true usually is'... branded title ah well, still on the prowl!

Is that the same as "salvage" title? If so, then I don't blame you. Even if there isn't anything wrong with the truck, it will always hurt the value.

Jack

 

[1stDeuce]

For future reference, if the UCA's have drop brackets, it's not a knuckle lift. The knuckle lifts leave the UCA in stock location. Of course, they give away caster, which makes some of these trucks drive poorly from too little caster. YMMV.
C