Gas vs. Diesel for International Travel

[skysix]

What about extreme cold and diesels?

I see diesels starting to really struggle when it gets below -20 f
and colder.

Obviously it takes way more battery to overcome the compression, and you can use synthetic oil in the crankcase, but what is the limit before diesel just gells up and refuses to work?

Some trucks certainly do better than others I know.

Cold climates where that is a problem (northern Canada) switch to a winter blend of diesel for the cold months Some operators insulate the metal lines to the fuel filters and I've seen a few with custom waterjackets that keep the filter and water separator from freezing. Many also run larger capacity or dual batteries. Some also have ether cannisters to inject a squirt and help the initial ignition (make sure glowplugs are good quality and working / hot!)

If you are talking about the engine being hard to turn over, that is more due to thick oil and cold batteries - only have 40% of rated capacity (if fully charged) at -40. I run 0W30 fully synthetic in my (gasoline) truck in the winter.

Also virtually everyone will have electric block heaters, usually electric 60W or 80 W battery 'blankets' or pads to go underneath, often oil pan heaters on larger engines (although I saw one on a VW type 2 Westphalia) and sometimes even electric transmission oil pan heaters or electric heating tape wraps aroud the transfer case and differentials etc.

It all depends on how cold it may get, how large a heatsink the engine is, how long between uses and so on. In the less PC days many rigs ran non-stop for months to preserve the engine and the haul trucks at some mines still do. Lately however I see smaller diesel engines running to generate power for the electric warmers and provide hot coolant to keep the main engine from freezing - or ESPAR type heaters...

 

[lostworldexpedition]

I put a lot of money into our diesel conversion and even though I have had (minor) second thoughts, mostly because of the cost of the swap. Now that I have the diesel engine we doubled our MPG's and consequently our range, the truck is practically unstoppable offroad, we haven't had any problems finding diesel (granted after five months of travel we still have not left Mexico) and man do I love the sound of the 12HT!

As far as quality of fuel I have 3 filters before the engine, the stock filter is preceeded by a Racor 4 micron filter/water separator and a very cheap plastic see through filter right at the fuel tank (this third one can be replaced easily and very inexpensively)... it may be overkill, but...

I also like the idea of being able to add 20% or more veggie oil once the weather is warmer. We know and know of quite a few folks that are doing/have done trips around the world using diesel with no problems.

In my humble and inexperienced opinion: if you have the engine go for the swap, but talk to Andre and perhaps the folks at Dieseltoys a little more...

Good luck and hope to see you on the road some day!

 

[haven]

"I see diesels starting to really struggle when it gets below -20 f and colder."

You can leave the engine running constantly, or install an oil pan heater and run it off an auxiliary motor, or use an engine coolant heater that's powered by a small diesel flame, like Webesto makes. Or just build a small fire under the oil pan when you need to start the engine!

On his winter drive along the Road of Bones in Siberia, Gary Wescott used a diesel-powered electric generator to heat his vehicle's battery, engine block, and to power a ceramic heater in the camper. But he found that the external engine components (belts and power steering pump are mentioned) were not kept warm, and didn't work well when the engine was started. So he switched to leaving the engine running constantly. Temperatures were regularly below -40F.

Read Gary's account here
http://www.turtleexpedition.com/adventures/intro.php

 

[VicHanson]

Back in July (winter here) of this year, I was stuck in a small village here in Peru because the road home was buried under about 3 feet of snow. After the first few tries, and running into the snow at 14,000 feet, and went back down lower to wait for more snow to melt. The last day I drove up to 14,000' and was going to spend the night there and leave early in the morning, along with a trucker in a Mitsubishi Fuso. I knew the temp be down to 25 deg. F, or lower, and that my van wouldn't start if it sat all night. At first I planned on starting it every couple of hours, (it's a diesel too) then saw that the trucker had his engine covered with blankets. I covered the front with a thick blanket, then a couple of tarps and went to bed. We ended up leaving about 3 hours later, after seeing another truck coming from the other way, but my van started right up and ran with no problems. Usually it would have been a hard start at that temp, even after just 2 hours.

The truck had been sitting for a couple of days, so he started it up in the late afternoon before to warm it up. But he used a fire under the oil pan first.
Anyway, if you can cover the engine while it is still warm, it helps a lot.




:REOutCampFire03:

 

[RusM]

For the price of the diesel swap you could totally rebuild and update virtually every system in your truck and still have money left over. An auxilliary gas tank and you are good to go if range is a concern. Also, consider the availability of parts in the region you are going to be travelling in. Several people have been stranded recently due to not having access to parts in foreign countries.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

I am having an engine that is having a little trouble starting at 25F and that is because something is wrong with it (burnt out glow plugs) so my theory is maybe you had a similar issue with your van in Chile...

My Ford has started at -11F this winter just fine (I haven't ever had it not start yet) and my 2H Toyota would start at -5 or -10F all the time after sitting for even a week or two under a couple feet of snow up in Alta at 9000 feet during the 2001-2002 winter when it snowed close to 700 inches and I lived up there. They do run rough though until until warmed up and during winter it is hard to keep them running warm as diesels also generally run cool when under low-medium load.

But you do have to make considerations for all this and it's food for thought for anyone running a diesel in general... Two batteries I think is a must as sometimes you need to stay on the starter to get it to start and and using thinner oil in the winter also goes a long way. 20 minutes of block heater does amazing work as well, if it helps...

 

[007]

I am having an engine that is having a little trouble starting at 25F and that is because something is wrong with it (burnt out glow plugs) so my theory is maybe you had a similar issue with your van in Chile...

My Ford has started at -11F this winter just fine (I haven't ever had it not start yet) and my 2H Toyota would start at -5 or -10F all the time after sitting for even a week or two under a couple feet of snow up in Alta at 9000 feet during the 2001-2002 winter when it snowed close to 700 inches and I lived up there. They do run rough though until until warmed up and during winter it is hard to keep them running warm as diesels also generally run cool when under low-medium load.

But you do have to make considerations for all this and it's food for thought for anyone running a diesel in general... Two batteries I think is a must as sometimes you need to stay on the starter to get it to start and and using thinner oil in the winter also goes a long way. 20 minutes of block heater does amazing work as well, if it helps...

I Live where the yearly average temperature is below freezing, (the record is -70 f) It seems the main advantage to running diesel is the better mileage, but when it gets severely cold, the diesels seem to idle that advantage away.

I imagine that diesel is generally the best fuel for international travel.

But there is that .001% of the population that ventures into the cold for hunting, photography, and adventure that will always want the added start up security of gasoline when they are out in the wilderness for a week or so in extreme cold.

I suppose technology could change that though.

 

[dzzz]

What about extreme cold and diesels?

I see diesels starting to really struggle when it gets below -20 f
and colder.

Obviously it takes way more battery to overcome the compression, and you can use synthetic oil in the crankcase, but what is the limit before diesel just gells up and refuses to work?

Some trucks certainly do better than others I know.

In this type of travel we're generally trying to avoid those type of temps. Diesels in these temps are going to be running heaters. I understand that gas can be mixed with diesel for extreme cold.

Personally I would go gas with smaller trucks, and diesel with bigger. Diesel is over-rated here for trucks that don't require high torque.

 

[Metcalf]

Diesel Diesel Diesel

-Mechanical injected diesel engine preferred. As long as you don't get too crazy with the power you can expect 200K miles or more. My dodge has 250K+ and runs like a top. Mechanical diesels are generally more tolerable of dirty fuel and/or water.

-The biggest bonus to a diesel is the ability to get fuel whenever where ever. You don't really have to worry much about quality, mileage and/or power might suffer a little bit if you have fuel that is low on the Cetane scale or low in BTU, but the engine will run and its very hard to damage a 'simple' diesel with poor fuel as long as it is not dirty fuel or full of water. Get the best fuel filter and water separator you can and carry spares.

-Flexible fuel use. A 'simple' diesel engine can run on anything from kerosene to jet A. In most extreme cold weather areas you can expect to find something like jet-A instead of 'diesel' fuel. You can also run vegetable oil, biodiesel, and many other fuels with slight modification.

-Mileage. Most diesel engine are about 30% more efficient per unit of power than a gasoline engine. This basically comes from the higher compression ratio, more air, less fuel.

 

[Christian P.]

Guys, a new year is coming and the recession is not over...I think it's time to be a bit more realistic and serious with our dreams.

First off, where do you want to go with the truck? The planet is rather large.

Second, have-you looked into cost of shipping? Shipping a car to/back from Europe/Africa is going to cost almost more than the value of your 4Runner.

If you are heading to Australia, just buy a vehicle there and sell it when you are done.

If you are going to Africa, you can pick up a nice Defender diesel for pretty cheap in South Africa right now.

If you are heading to South/Central America, you won't have any problem finding petrol.

I have never been to Eastern Europe/Siberia so I can't comment on that area.

Also please keep in mind that no matter what, keeping your vehicle stock and simple is the key to be reliable. I do not believe that the conversion will be more reliable than the V6 and more fun to drive (I happen to own a 2001). Also factor the time and money you will be putting in it - this has a value. Your 99 4Runner in good shape will already gets you 20 mpg, that's good enough.

As Andre said, it is not worth it 95% of the time.

Actually, I personally think it's never worth it - at least in a Toyota.

 

[Mr. Leary]

First off, where do you want to go with the truck? The planet is rather large..

Interested primarily in North and South America at this point. Aussieland is a place I would love to visit, but the shipping from there back to the states is very expensive, so if I shipped my truck over, it would only be for a long jaunt, not for a regular length trip.

Second, have-you looked into cost of shipping? Shipping a car to/back from Europe/Africa is going to cost almost more than the value of your 4Runner. .

Transportation is what I do. Shipping can be expensive, but if you wait around for a ship going that way who needs the extra cargo, then you can get a pretty good deal. Shipping a shaken down reliable vehicle over would be less expensive then breaking down in an unreliable one and having to pay to fix it.


The availability of parts is problem enough to cause worry. The one thing you can count on in life is that stuff happens, and you must react (see my sig line). Having a repairable vehicle is safer than one with no parts on this side of the Pacific. I am still on the fence, but right now the cons seem to be outweighing the pros.

 

[SunTzuNephew]

My diesels only get the engine heaters plugged in when the temps are colder than -20F, for more than 3 hours (actually the heaters only get turned on for 3 hours prior to my departure). This has worked in Montana, and across Canada and Alaska... I've never had a problem starting with outside temps as low as -70F (free air temp, not windchill), but use good batteries and Mobil-1TD 5W40 synthetic oil. Oh, I use synthetic gearbox lubes as well - I had a gearbox get so stiff I broke a u-joint once (in a Datsun King Cab 2WD, back in 78 or so).