gas vs diesel

Dalko43

Explorer
I think diesels are about to make somewhat of a comeback here in North America.

Granted, diesels have maintained a presence in the heavy-duty pickup segment, but diesel Nissan Titans and Chevy Colorados are hitting the sales floors. Rumors of the next gen Jeep and Frontier also having diesel options.

IMHO, diesel engines, so long as they are relatively reliable, make far more sense for trucking and overlanding purposes than a gasser V6 or V8.

Better mpg; the gap between gas and diesel is still significant (even accounting for turbo gas engines). I'm lucky if I can get +22mpg on the highway with my 4.0L V6 in my 4runner. The new I-4 duramax diesel in the Colorado produces 100lb-ft more than my engine and gets 30mpg on the highway....a huge advantage. And when you start throwing weight on the truck or add a towed trailer, gas mpg really starts to suffer while diesel mpg doesn't degrade nearly as much.

Better torque; diesel engines provide much better torque which is far important to me when offroading and towing.

Engine longevity; I get that most people won't own a diesel vehicle for its entire life expectancy. But a longer engine life means that a diesel rig will fetch a much better sales price on the used market (go compare diesel Ram 2500's to gas 2500's to see that price difference).

The main issues that modern diesels have to contend with is emissions regulations and their affect on reliability. The pre-emissions diesels were generally known for being bullet-proof. But it seems the after-treatment systems to reduce certain emissions can lead to some reliability issues for some of the more modern diesels (which of course no wants to deal with).

If these new diesel offerings can manage to maintain reliability in the face of these emissions requirements, I think a lot of the traditional truck and SUV crowd will be more than happy to jump onto the diesel bandwagon.
 

boxcar1

boxcar1
I'll wade in on this from a practical experience point of view.
I will preface this with a disclaimer : I'm a builder ......
I will always opt for gas over diesel. Even when towing large loads is added to the mix.
A gas powered rig can be configured in such a way as to nearly bomb proof on the trail . No computer , turbo's , or un wanted and deadly weight.
Diesels are heavy . plain and simple. Fuel is not always available and when they break are not always easily repaired in the field.
The rigs we build can be repaired with basic hand tools in nearly all conditions. ( save catastrophic failure )
The added torque advantage of a diesel can be overcome with proper gearing.
And there is the range issue... Due to the lighter weight of a gas vs diesel rig , one can carry enough fuel to match the range.
Cost: A diesel of any kind will cost at the very least twice if not three times the gas engines maintenance cost over the life of the unit. And initial cost is nearly double.
And the big one for me.
Emissions: Look at VW and what they had to do just to pass USA's standards..... Need I say more.....
History: The greatest teacher. There are many examples of simple gas fired 4wd vehicles that have served there owners well for nearly 70 years and are still doing the job they were designed for, the lowly MB for example.
I doubt there will be many 2016 diesel rigs on or off the road in 2086.
In fact there are very few 50 year old diesels on the road today. ( of the same class )
The clincher : A modified Suzuki Samurai ( gas fired ) holds the world altitude record at 20,064 feet. Wow think of the nose bleeds.

One of my babies at work: 25 mpg average with a very torque'y 2 liter.

5715.jpg


My favorite tow rig : Gas 401 stroker 465 hp 650 lbs torque and 12 - 15 mpg properly tuned.

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tin

Observer
In my humble opinion you really need to think about what kind requirements you have for the engine. How much weight you need to carry, what range you need, what terrain you intend to pass through. For example if you want to go to Alaska in the winter, you'll have much less of a headache with a gas power plant, especially if compared to an older IDI diesel. Diesels don't like to cold and need all sorts of systems to be practical to run in cold weather. But if you anticipate to be fording river after river on a trip I would choose a diesel for reliability in water. Range is a big plus for a diesel as well as low end torque, it's very nice to be able to navigate most obstacles just off idle. Like it was said earlier there are issues with fuel quality in some parts of the world in respect to newer DI / common rail diesels with emissions funk. But a higher compression gas engine will also have issues running on low octane, low quality fuels. I wouldn't agree that diesel is more complex to maintain or costly, especially if its an older IDI with a mechanical pump and a simple turbo. It's just less familiar than gas and modern gas engine are not that simple to work on either especially in the bush, I find a mechanical injector pump not more complex than a carb / dissy setup for gas ignition, let alone injector + efi.

All in all I would choose the most simple power plant you can for the job you need done. If you can diagnose and repair problems without hard to find parts or electronics, then that's a big plus to me. I can say from personal experience of running a 1994 4M40 diesel in Canada that having an engine that doesnt need electricity to run is simply awesome and I've fixed issues in the bush with what I had on hand. The downside is it doesn't like the cold at startup and will not start at all below 25C without the block heater being plugged in.
 

PPCLI_Jim

Adventurer
All that being said up here in Canada we dont have the SMOG issues you do on used vehicles as in the USA. MY 88.5 Sami is getting a 96 1.9 AAZ TD from a VW. this was the last ones that were completely mechanical. That means one wire to the starter one to the pump and one to the alternator. Im going that way because i want a low running cost motor for it. I am going Green and running veggie fuel. That defeats the OH diesel is so dirty. argument. If i want to take it somewhere i can run diesel or waste oil. As to the cold ehh well I also have an Isuzu that i plan as my winter /expo beast . just my 2 cents
 

boxcar1

boxcar1
Good luck finding fry oil in the outback....
Service costs on a diesel are much higher. Lets just say your average Ford or Chevy v-8 - 5-6 quarts of oil every 5,000 miles, 1 oil filter ,1 fuel filter if needed , no need for a water separator etc.
Diesel engine , Lets use the venerable 7.3 as I own one and am familiar with it. 15 quarts of oil every 5000 miles, 1 oil filter , My Ford runs 2 fuel filters ( I'm done taking chances ) and a water separator swapped out at every oil change etc.
I agree that a high compression gas engine has issues with low octane gasoline . So run a standard 8.5 -1 engine.
And with out any argument from me an all mechanical diesel is a wonderful beast . Simple , easy to repair , fairly efficient but in the end twice the weight .
 

poriggity

Explorer
I'm gonna say.. Gas. I own a dodge ram 2500 diesel that is now my expedition truck. I love the truck and since its an 04 I don't have to deal with dpf and def bs... I love The truck but it's definitely more expensive to operate, even if you compare the gas version of an identical 2500 truck... And I paid 7k more in sticker price for My truck too. I bought my truck because I wanted a diesel... That was it. I love it but it's not cheap to maintain.
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Clutch

<---Pass
Never had a diesel fetish myself. I'm sure they work well, but I'll stick to gas.

Good for earthmoving machines, after doing that for a living early in life, sitting in those damn things for hours on end, day in, day out.....now, I can't stand the smell or rattle of them. They have come a long way though. That is good or bad depending how you look at it.

The bobtail I rented for the move was diesel...couldn't wait to get out of that thing, after listening to the drone only for a few days.

Lotsa diesel trucks here...can't have my "fresh-air" vent open for the most part when I commute to work...
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
I love the torque and fuel mileage of the diesel.

By no means is it expensive to maintain compared to its gasser (460BB) counterpart.

Plus, diesel is down below $2 per gallon right now :ylsmoke:





This heap weighs in at 10k or so fully loaded, and averages roughly 15mpg.

Worst Ive seen was 10MPG (solid head-side wind for 400+ miles)
Best Ive seen is 17MPG (no wind, steady on the go pedal @ 55mph)

My range is nearly 600 miles, which give me loads of travel options.

I wouldnt see that MPG with a similar big block EMPTY,
and would have to stop at every fuel station I came across,
assuming I didnt run dry on extended trips off the pavement :snorkel:


chassis308.jpg
 

p nut

butter
Good for earthmoving machines, after doing that for a living early in life, sitting in those damn things for hours on end, day in, day out.....now, I can't stand the smell or rattle of them. They have come a long way though. That is good or bad depending how you look at it.

The bobtail I rented for the move was diesel...couldn't wait to get out of that thing, after listening to the drone only for a few days.

Lotsa diesel trucks here...can't have my "fresh-air" vent open for the most part when I commute to work...

Plus DEF, and all the other garbage that comes with diesel, no thanks.

Now, if I owned that gargantuan beast of a truck IdaSHO has, diesel makes sense. For me and my light duty set up, gas is the winner.
 

Clutch

<---Pass
Plus DEF, and all the other garbage that comes with diesel, no thanks.

Good for the environment, but overly complex now. All I see is a very expensive repair bill down the road...what little savings you get in fuel...is blown out the window pretty quick.

Now, if I owned that gargantuan beast of a truck IdaSHO has, diesel makes sense. For me and my light duty set up, gas is the winner.

Oh yeah, great for heavy loads. Now that I no longer work construction...want to travel as light as possible as I get older. Less is definitely more. Gas is fine for 99% of the things I need a little truck to do.
 

tin

Observer
As long as it runs reliably, is easy to repair and maintain, and can get the job done without costing an arm and a leg you're good. I think it's all in the individual engine designs and the transmissions that back them up. You can have a terrible gas engine with all sorts of problems and great diesel engine with none or vise versa. For example I imported a diesel SWB Pajero/Montero with the 4m40 2.8l engine simply because there is no equivalent with IFS and that could be daily driven and get 10l/100km in the city. The only SWB truck is a Jeep Wrangler and that is neither IFS or can do that fuel economy.
 

punisher1130

Adventurer
Now these are the responses that feed my curiosity and what I was meaning to get. Just simple feed back from others with more experiences then me. Most see this as trivial and meaningless stuff but to me its valuable because for e even the simplest info can give me a understanding of things I may get into and have to deal with or may never use but have the intel just incase. I am certified in both automotive and diesel mechanics so I already know cost to own and the benefits for street use but I'm new to the 4x4 world so I am hungry for info weather its something I already know or not, all though I plan on mainly staying in the southern states ( from what I can see with my finances at this time) I never know what tomorrow will bring and where I will end up so the more info I can gather the better off I can be, well as good as I can get without first hand experience lol.
 

verdesardog

Explorer
With all the modern electronics in vehicles these days gassers are just as expensive to trouble shoot and repair as diesels. I've maintained my vehicles myself since I started driving. My 06 Cummins has not been any more expensive than any of my gassers. I really like not having to change spark plugs! I am doing all the maintenance myself so that might be making a difference in cost. And this is at least twice the truck of any others (all gassers) I have owned.
 

poriggity

Explorer
I supervise a shop of 32 technicians that work on freightliner/Volvo and international diesel tractors all of which either use def of have a dpf. After seeing the hell we go through with those systems on a daily basis I'll never own a pickup truck that uses def or a dpf...

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