Gen 1 Tundra Rear Suspension Questions

[High Country]

Sounds like you'll have to comprises somewhere. Can't have a nice ride unloaded. Loaded. Towing capacity. Performance on and off road.

You'll have to pick what is important. With my current set up. I can run a topper. Heavy rear bumper. Rides great and performances well for on and off road. Plus I can tow.

Overland spring isn't recommend for a stock truck. The spring is built with the truck unloaded but with topper and heavy duty rear bumper with swing out on all the time. This is what is considered unloaded for these springs. Loaded would be all that current weight plus 500lbs


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Would you tow the trailer I listed with your setup? You mentioned earlier a 3000lbs number so was curious if the AG Deavers could handle the larger trailer.
I don't have a heavy rear bumper now, nor do I envision do to much there in the future. I do run a hitch mounted cargo carrier occasionally, with fuel and whatnot on there.

 

[toyick]

I have no input on this because it sounds like your on the right track, But I have a set of custom deavers with extra 250lbs added to them and its not enough. I have the Deaver SUA, pack and 16in shocks going threw the bed, outside of the frame. I have a custom Stanley Fabrication leaf hanger set that moves the pivot.
The springs are old and sagged a bit, so i need to get them re-arched from deaver, how ever i may go with the archive garage setup.. since he has done the math already, but i dont think he as an SUA pack with added weight, just the normal c27's which i have already with added weight. Also i tow a 21ft wake-board boat every now and then...

 

[Kpack]

I have no input on this because it sounds like your on the right track, But I have a set of custom deavers with extra 250lbs added to them and its not enough. I have the Deaver SUA, pack and 16in shocks going threw the bed, outside of the frame. I have a custom Stanley Fabrication leaf hanger set that moves the pivot.
The springs are old and sagged a bit, so i need to get them re-arched from deaver, how ever i may go with the archive garage setup.. since he has done the math already, but i dont think he as an SUA pack with added weight, just the normal c27's which i have already with added weight. Also i tow a 21ft wake-board boat every now and then...

Do you sag when you tow the boat, and does it make it harder to control while towing? That's what's holding me back from redoing my rear suspension. I also tow a 21' wakeboard boat and need something that can do that safely. In my case it will all be about compromises since the truck will be used to do a wide range of things: tow, moderately difficult trails, daily drive, camp, normal truck use (rocks in the bed and such).

 

[High Country]

@toyick Wow! That is an unique setup! What do you use that set up for? Thanks for your input.
@Kpack Sounds like we are on the same pursuit.

 

[toyick]

Well i sway more then an average truck because i have Long travel in the front and NO sway bars what so ever, Im more concerned about stopping then swaying. The suspension is setup to sway a bit, i mean LT trucks have a lot of travel. So its sorta comes with the territory. Does it tow like my Excursion? no def not, but it does the job. I just towed a heavy trailer and a RZR XP4 1000 to pismo loaded with tent, all my gear, 70mph the whole way and i didnt feel like i was going to die at all.... These trucks just dont like to stop...
I do beleive you guys will be happy with the Archive Garage setup. There is no perfect world when it comes to towing, comfort, and offroading... esp on a midsize truck like the first gen tundra. So you have to give and take. I personally went the full LT setup front and rear, because thats the flavor i prefer. With that said, Thier are many other options, but i think the AG deavers would be a perfect spring over setup for most offroaders out there, who want extra spring weight, height, comfort.
Match that with an Icon, or some other smaller 8-10in shock valved and the truck would be pretty legit....

P.S. i have a build thread with all the different suspension setups ive had on this truck.....stock, bilsteins, icons and kings....

 

[toyotech]

Sounds like you'll have to comprises somewhere. Can't have a nice ride unloaded. Loaded. Towing capacity. Performance on and off road.

You'll have to pick what is important. With my current set up. I can run a topper. Heavy rear bumper. Rides great and performances well for on and off road. Plus I can tow.

Overland spring isn't recommend for a stock truck. The spring is built with the truck unloaded but with topper and heavy duty rear bumper with swing out on all the time. This is what is considered unloaded for these springs. Loaded would be all that current weight plus 500lbs


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Would you tow the trailer I listed with your setup? You mentioned earlier a 3000lbs number so was curious if the AG Deavers could handle the larger trailer.
I don't have a heavy rear bumper now, nor do I envision do to much there in the future. I do run a hitch mounted cargo carrier occasionally, with fuel and whatnot on there.

If I didn't have a topper or my heavy dual swing out bumper. I would pull the trailer listed if the tongue weight is less than 500lbs.

If I keep my current configuration and had to pull the listed trailer. I would add air bags with cradles but this would also compromise a little up travel but everything else would be the same.


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[Lotsoftoys]

So I just talked to Solo motors ports today and a few other friends that have a lot of experience with sua. I'm wanting to now keep the inverted shackle. I don't like the idea of shackle flip after lots of research.



Sua is obviously intriguing for travel reasons but not as much weight carrying ability... still would like to research this a bit more. I know sua springs are auper flexy and alot of leaves, ut can they be made to support weight? I'm thinking 750-1000 pounds over stock payload ability should do it.

kinda leaning towards a soa with a nice set of expo style springs and relocated shocks. Should pull decent numbers and support all the expo ******** i carry.

 

[Flyer69]

My 2 cents...?
Go with an overland pack like the AG, which will allow around 500# extra payload yet still behave nicely while empty. Then, for towing, slap on a set of good airbags or, my preference, Timbrens. The bags/Timbrens will give you the support and stability that you are looking for.
Another option that you can add and remove easily for towing is a Hellwig EZ-990 top helper spring. I think a set is about 100 bucks. I ran a set on my old spring pack and they helped quite a bit when trailering. If you look at my build page you can see them in the "before" photos.

Your old leaf packs are no doubt a little tired, so I'd recommend starting by upgrading those. The extra load capacity from the springs alone will help handle the tongue weight, and the more progressive rate is an improvement over stock anyway. Then if you still feel you need some more support, try one of the 3 options I mentioned above (or maybe something different). At least this way you are starting with a solid foundation. And... if you decide you dont like the new springs, I'm quite sure you could recover most of your cost by selling them here on ExPo.

So I just talked to Solo motors ports today and a few other friends that have a lot of experience with sua. I'm wanting to now keep the inverted shackle. I don't like the idea of shackle flip after lots of research.



Sua is obviously intriguing for travel reasons but not as much weight carrying ability... still would like to research this a bit more. I know sua springs are auper flexy and alot of leaves, ut can they be made to support weight? I'm thinking 750-1000 pounds over stock payload ability should do it.

kinda leaning towards a soa with a nice set of expo style springs and relocated shocks. Should pull decent numbers and support all the expo ******** i carry.

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[toyotech]

My 2 cents...?
Go with an overland pack like the AG, which will allow around 500# extra payload yet still behave nicely while empty. Then, for towing, slap on a set of good airbags or, my preference, Timbrens. The bags/Timbrens will give you the support and stability that you are looking for.
Another option that you can add and remove easily for towing is a Hellwig EZ-990 top helper spring. I think a set is about 100 bucks. I ran a set on my old spring pack and they helped quite a bit when trailering. If you look at my build page you can see them in the "before" photos.

Your old leaf packs are no doubt a little tired, so I'd recommend starting by upgrading those. The extra load capacity from the springs alone will help handle the tongue weight, and the more progressive rate is an improvement over stock anyway. Then if you still feel you need some more support, try one of the 3 options I mentioned above (or maybe something different). At least this way you are starting with a solid foundation. And... if you decide you dont like the new springs, I'm quite sure you could recover most of your cost by selling them here on ExPo.

So I just talked to Solo motors ports today and a few other friends that have a lot of experience with sua. I'm wanting to now keep the inverted shackle. I don't like the idea of shackle flip after lots of research.



Sua is obviously intriguing for travel reasons but not as much weight carrying ability... still would like to research this a bit more. I know sua springs are auper flexy and alot of leaves, ut can they be made to support weight? I'm thinking 750-1000 pounds over stock payload ability should do it.

kinda leaning towards a soa with a nice set of expo style springs and relocated shocks. Should pull decent numbers and support all the expo ******** i carry.

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500lbs extra capacity not including the weight of a topper and rear bumper with dual swing outs.

So on a stock tundra. It will provide if I had to guess 700-900lbs of extra capacity while maintaining 1.5 lift over stock.


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[High Country]

Here is where I think we have gotten to so far.

1) An Add a Leaf kit works ok to get lift, but if the OEM leaf springs are old & tired, it won't last as long, or work quite as hoped. Keep in mind most of these Gen 1 trucks are 10 years + old. An AAL might work just fine for a newer application, but is dependent on usage and application for long term success. IMHO, its the quickest and easiest way to reduce sag, gain a little lift, and introduce yourself to building something up.
2) Replacing the Leaf Pack with a new pack is a sure way to increase performance.
a. Many options exists for this, and leaf packs can be tailored to a chosen performance range
b. You can't have amazing articulation, load hauling capacity, washboard superiority, and a plush ride down in the freeway with a standard leaf pack; and perhaps all 4 desires would be hard pressed to be met in a full on custom system.
3) Shackle kits, Long Travel Kits, and SUAs complicate the matter and are best done if you really know what you want, have the money, and are willing to make some compromises on certain performance options.

So, for me my answer is a new leaf pack. I've narrowed it down to the Archive Garage Deavers (mainly because a lot of work seems to have been done with a focus on Gen 1 Tundras on these) or a custom ALCAN tailored to my truck), and I'll probably go with the Archive Garage U Bolt Flip with AG's 2" or 2.7" Super Bumps as I plan to tow.
In reality I will probably run my OEM Leafs with the Wheeler 3 Leaf Progressive AAL system and my Bilstien 5100s for a while longer as I continue to research options. I installed my AAL and left the OEM overload spring off, I plan to add that back in as soon as I can make the time.

The biggest remaining question for me lies around what shock to match to this new system. I know I want something 2" or bigger, and maybe with a reservoir. I run Kings on the front and research says my rear shocks should match my fronts in terms of performance. I've spoken via messaging to the folks at Accutune and even reached out to King. I've gotten enough info to know this step won't be cheap.... I also think I need to make up my mind on the springs and get them installed before I will know exactly what length of shock I will end up needing. Perhaps I sell the perfectly fine Kings and get the whole suspension from a place like Accutune... Lots to ponder on, and lots to save for!! LOL In the meantime I can still enjoy what I have and as I get out more, perhaps my experiences will help guide my final decision.

 

[Lotsoftoys]

Here is where I think we have gotten to so far.

1) An Add a Leaf kit works ok to get lift, but if the OEM leaf springs are old & tired, it won't last as long, or work quite as hoped. Keep in mind most of these Gen 1 trucks are 10 years + old. An AAL might work just fine for a newer application, but is dependent on usage and application for long term success. IMHO, its the quickest and easiest way to reduce sag, gain a little lift, and introduce yourself to building something up.
2) Replacing the Leaf Pack with a new pack is a sure way to increase performance.
a. Many options exists for this, and leaf packs can be tailored to a chosen performance range
b. You can't have amazing articulation, load hauling capacity, washboard superiority, and a plush ride down in the freeway with a standard leaf pack; and perhaps all 4 desires would be hard pressed to be met in a full on custom system.
3) Shackle kits, Long Travel Kits, and SUAs complicate the matter and are best done if you really know what you want, have the money, and are willing to make some compromises on certain performance options.

So, for me my answer is a new leaf pack. I've narrowed it down to the Archive Garage Deavers (mainly because a lot of work seems to have been done with a focus on Gen 1 Tundras on these) or a custom ALCAN tailored to my truck), and I'll probably go with the Archive Garage U Bolt Flip with AG's 2" or 2.7" Super Bumps as I plan to tow.
In reality I will probably run my OEM Leafs with the Wheeler 3 Leaf Progressive AAL system and my Bilstien 5100s for a while longer as I continue to research options. I installed my AAL and left the OEM overload spring off, I plan to add that back in as soon as I can make the time.

The biggest remaining question for me lies around what shock to match to this new system. I know I want something 2" or bigger, and maybe with a reservoir. I run Kings on the front and research says my rear shocks should match my fronts in terms of performance. I've spoken via messaging to the folks at Accutune and even reached out to King. I've gotten enough info to know this step won't be cheap.... I also think I need to make up my mind on the springs and get them installed before I will know exactly what length of shock I will end up needing. Perhaps I sell the perfectly fine Kings and get the whole suspension from a place like Accutune... Lots to ponder on, and lots to save for!! LOL In the meantime I can still enjoy what I have and as I get out more, perhaps my experiences will help guide my final decision.

The correct way to do that is to buy your springs and cycle the suspension to measure for shocks. Like this.... and ome u get compressed ad extended lengths it's easy. Pick a shock body, then pick if u want remote residential or piggy backs or no resi. Down south motorsports know their ********, custom valved my piggy back kings for me

 

[smokeysevin]

Its always going to be a can't have your cake and eat it too situation if you keep just the leaf springs. You either get a good ride when unloaded and sag when loaded or harsh while unloaded and regular when loaded. If you add bags to it you can change the rate but its tough to fit. Not to mention that the amount of damping that is required when loaded is much higher than when empty (not really a good way to fix that though)

Sean

 

[Kpack]

Here is where I think we have gotten to so far.

1) An Add a Leaf kit works ok to get lift, but if the OEM leaf springs are old & tired, it won't last as long, or work quite as hoped. Keep in mind most of these Gen 1 trucks are 10 years + old. An AAL might work just fine for a newer application, but is dependent on usage and application for long term success. IMHO, its the quickest and easiest way to reduce sag, gain a little lift, and introduce yourself to building something up.
2) Replacing the Leaf Pack with a new pack is a sure way to increase performance.
a. Many options exists for this, and leaf packs can be tailored to a chosen performance range
b. You can't have amazing articulation, load hauling capacity, washboard superiority, and a plush ride down in the freeway with a standard leaf pack; and perhaps all 4 desires would be hard pressed to be met in a full on custom system.
3) Shackle kits, Long Travel Kits, and SUAs complicate the matter and are best done if you really know what you want, have the money, and are willing to make some compromises on certain performance options.

So, for me my answer is a new leaf pack. I've narrowed it down to the Archive Garage Deavers (mainly because a lot of work seems to have been done with a focus on Gen 1 Tundras on these) or a custom ALCAN tailored to my truck), and I'll probably go with the Archive Garage U Bolt Flip with AG's 2" or 2.7" Super Bumps as I plan to tow.
In reality I will probably run my OEM Leafs with the Wheeler 3 Leaf Progressive AAL system and my Bilstien 5100s for a while longer as I continue to research options. I installed my AAL and left the OEM overload spring off, I plan to add that back in as soon as I can make the time.

The biggest remaining question for me lies around what shock to match to this new system. I know I want something 2" or bigger, and maybe with a reservoir. I run Kings on the front and research says my rear shocks should match my fronts in terms of performance. I've spoken via messaging to the folks at Accutune and even reached out to King. I've gotten enough info to know this step won't be cheap.... I also think I need to make up my mind on the springs and get them installed before I will know exactly what length of shock I will end up needing. Perhaps I sell the perfectly fine Kings and get the whole suspension from a place like Accutune... Lots to ponder on, and lots to save for!! LOL In the meantime I can still enjoy what I have and as I get out more, perhaps my experiences will help guide my final decision.

This has been an awesome thread. Very informative and helpful, with useful insight from lots of members who have experience with different setups. Too often threads devolve into useless bickering and all the helpful information is buried. This has given me a lot to consider as I plan my rear suspension. I'll likely do the same as High Country.....AG Overland Deavers with bumps and call it a day. Seems to be a good compromise between all the expected uses.

 

[Flyer69]

Here is where I think we have gotten to so far.

1) An Add a Leaf kit works ok to get lift, but if the OEM leaf springs are old & tired, it won't last as long, or work quite as hoped. Keep in mind most of these Gen 1 trucks are 10 years + old. An AAL might work just fine for a newer application, but is dependent on usage and application for long term success. IMHO, its the quickest and easiest way to reduce sag, gain a little lift, and introduce yourself to building something up.
2) Replacing the Leaf Pack with a new pack is a sure way to increase performance.
a. Many options exists for this, and leaf packs can be tailored to a chosen performance range
b. You can't have amazing articulation, load hauling capacity, washboard superiority, and a plush ride down in the freeway with a standard leaf pack; and perhaps all 4 desires would be hard pressed to be met in a full on custom system.
3) Shackle kits, Long Travel Kits, and SUAs complicate the matter and are best done if you really know what you want, have the money, and are willing to make some compromises on certain performance options.

So, for me my answer is a new leaf pack. I've narrowed it down to the Archive Garage Deavers (mainly because a lot of work seems to have been done with a focus on Gen 1 Tundras on these) or a custom ALCAN tailored to my truck), and I'll probably go with the Archive Garage U Bolt Flip with AG's 2" or 2.7" Super Bumps as I plan to tow.
In reality I will probably run my OEM Leafs with the Wheeler 3 Leaf Progressive AAL system and my Bilstien 5100s for a while longer as I continue to research options. I installed my AAL and left the OEM overload spring off, I plan to add that back in as soon as I can make the time.

The biggest remaining question for me lies around what shock to match to this new system. I know I want something 2" or bigger, and maybe with a reservoir. I run Kings on the front and research says my rear shocks should match my fronts in terms of performance. I've spoken via messaging to the folks at Accutune and even reached out to King. I've gotten enough info to know this step won't be cheap.... I also think I need to make up my mind on the springs and get them installed before I will know exactly what length of shock I will end up needing. Perhaps I sell the perfectly fine Kings and get the whole suspension from a place like Accutune... Lots to ponder on, and lots to save for!! LOL In the meantime I can still enjoy what I have and as I get out more, perhaps my experiences will help guide my final decision.

This has been an awesome thread. Very informative and helpful, with useful insight from lots of members who have experience with different setups. Too often threads devolve into useless bickering and all the helpful information is buried. This has given me a lot to consider as I plan my rear suspension. I'll likely do the same as High Country.....AG Overland Deavers with bumps and call it a day. Seems to be a good compromise between all the expected uses.

I think you will be very happy with your choice.

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[High Country]

This has been an awesome thread. Very informative and helpful, with useful insight from lots of members who have experience with different setups. Too often threads devolve into useless bickering and all the helpful information is buried. This has given me a lot to consider as I plan my rear suspension. I'll likely do the same as High Country.....AG Overland Deavers with bumps and call it a day. Seems to be a good compromise between all the expected uses.

Now all we have to do is figure out what size shock and what one best compliments our front end!