Gentleman, lets talk solid axles!

[zukrider]

What thoughts have you on the execution of said dilemma? If you have plans or thoughts of doing it, what way do you plan to?

I have been grinding my brain the past few weeks about getting a sidekick and doing a full drivetrain swap on 37's. full expo type build, but based on rubicon capability.

$1500 sidekick in decent enough shape
$1500 2.3 Aerio engine swap, 155hp! great mileage
$5000 built the way i want Toy mini axles
$1500 toy trans, dual cases with 1= 4.7:1, and adapter to zuk engine
$2200 Qty 5, 37's, DOT beadlocks
$$$$? unknown variables of my own designed front 3 link, rear 3 link, all other parts my own fab. bumpers, roof rack, fridge, safety gear etc.....


WOW. i dont think i truly added it all up. crap.

But, case in point, i really think it will be cheaper to build the SR the same way.




So i think i will plan to work out a SAS first. but im curious what the EXPO crowd likes as the better option? I can do a custom designed 3 link around an FJ80 axle. or. i can take said FJ80 axle and the original trailing arm design, and integrate it into the design.

re-integrate the trailing arms i see being easier, but the drawback being that i think it will have to be very tall. something i do not want.

custom 3 link i think will be able to sit lower, flex better, and have just as good road manners. but will he more time consuming and costly.

for the sake of keeping things simple, lets stick to links and coils. i may decide to go with ORI struts, but i dont think i want them failing in the sticks! and i am not willing to spend the money required for coilovers.




now i know, a montero can run 35's with little lift and do the Rubi with style. i know. I LOVE my montero, but am just not the IFS fan. i dont like the way it acts while doing harder trails. so a SAS is imminent. plus, to ARB the front diff, i can get a complete Elocked FJ80 front axle. and i can 5.29 the rear for less than a FJ80 rear axle. seems like a good direction.

I like the adventure a 3 link will present me. but is it worth it? I know the trailing arm design will work, but is it going to end up to tall?


decisions!

thanx for any input you all can lend.

 

[off-roader]

Wait... Your asking a bunch of mitsu enthusiast about sas'ing a Sidekick? Wrong place to ask. If you wanted to do a SAS on a mitsu, there are several that are either done or in process on 4x4 wire so I'd recommend asking there.

As for how the ifs behaves on hard core trails, what are you thinking is hard core & what behavior worries you?

 

[zukrider]

"But, case in point, i really think it will be cheaper to build the SR the same way."


nope. was saying that i was planning a sidekick build, and got to thinking the fact i own the montero, it would be far more cost effective to build it up instead. so i want to start by planning out the SAS on my 94 SR. only downside here is fuel economy. that and weight. but whatever, **** happens.

and my opinion of hardcore or not, really doesnt matter. regardless, i dont prefer the feel and overall demeanor of IFS. Absolutely not saying it is not capable, and i knew you'd be the first to defend, so calm down kimosabe. its just my preference.

over the near 3 years ive had my SR, i have already planned out quite a bit of the EXPO KIT- roof rack, rear storage, bumpers, sliders, etc... but i never really considered doing a SAS, so this will be fun i think. just looking for input and or experience with this endeavor. im likely going to go the route of my own design on a 3 link, and then probably change the rear to a 3 link as well. but that all depends on the height i end up with.

and i dislike the format over at 4x4wire. very difficult to navigate. but ill swing over there in the coming weeks of planning this out. i might start with putting some measurements of the frame down on paper. then ill start plugging into the calculator to get an idea!

 

[shmabs]

I won't get into what vehicle is a better choice or the whole IFS vs SA debate. But as someone who has stared at the front suspension of a montero for a long time here are my concerns, thoughts, ideas etc.....

Posting the $ numbers that you did with the sidekick, i would say your montero could be done much, much cheaper. That is provided of course you can and will do the fab work yourself, you are a competent welder, fabricator, suspension engineer and overall mechanic.

I'm curious as to what specific factors make you believe that a 3 link will help you stay lower than the radius arm style front suspension found on the 80 series. The reason i ask is that the 80 series suspension works very well for what it is. Additionally the lower control arms mount under the axle, leaving plenty of room above for keeping your height reasonable. The montero frame, once stripped of its ifs and related parts, seems like it might be a nice platform to work with, altough im not sure how much up travel the frame and oil pan are going to allow you, while keeping your truck "low"

It sounds like you have some experience/seat time with a three link and i will say that i have ridden/driven a few other vehicle with a properly designed mid-arm three link and really do feel its a near ideal setup. But if you are gearing your build towards expo style with rubicon capability, i feel the 80 series suspension might have some distinct advantages:

-Parts availability, 80 series arms, bushings etc are relatively easy to come by. Where as a control arm that you have built might not be readily available.

-its already put together, and would be easier than a three link. less money on the build=more gas money, less time in the garage=more time on the trail.

My questions for you

What will your steering setup evolve into?

Will the oil pan need to be modified?

What's your target frame height and desired tire size?


Mike

 

[rxinhed]

Returning to the Suzuki, though...

How about a Samurai with the 2.0L turbo Swift engine? Wouldn't be very much of an Expo rig.

However, the Montero SR would be nice to use a Wagoneer front axle on, a DS-drop Dana 44. Some Toyota front springs because they're relatively flat, have the military wrap, and should have enough clearance for a cross-over steering conversion.

 

[zukrider]

shmabs, thats the reason i threw in the FJ setup as an option. available parts is a good thing! the biggest reason in my mind that a 3 link will allow a lower stance is that i can fab the mounts up higher, at least in theory. honestly though, i have no idea what mounting limitations ill have with the 80 setup. i need to get out and do some real world measurements. i just want to do a 3 link, as ive planned out 2 others, but never got around to actually building one.

your questions:


What will your steering setup evolve into? not sure yet. likely, the easiest will be to add the FJ80 box. i also plan to integrate a hydro assist in with it. if the forward throw of the pitman is an issue, than an IFS toyota box will work well to. but, the factory box may just do the trick to! to be determined.

Will the oil pan need to be modified? at this moment, i have not looked to see. i will not mod it, so that will likely be my up travel limitation.

What's your target frame height and desired tire size? i have not set a height just yet. but im on 32's stock at the moment and have been 33's stock previously. i dont want to go any taller than maybe 2" more than the current height. ill try to get a full set of montero measurements on sunday, and add them here. if/when i find a local FJ80 to measure, ill add those measurments as well.



rxinhed- i am done with sami's! ive had 9, and like to have more room/power! never seen a turbo swift before. but id go 2.3 anyhow. a waggy axle is stout, but i like to stay metric, and i also am not a fan of welding to cast stuff. plus, they are super heavy! and since a montero isnt exactly light, ill like to save weight in every fashion possible. this opinion is helping me lean toward aluminum for the links. also, i want to eventually build all my armor in aluminum as well. but i have to get a spool gun and do much practice first!


thanx for all the input fellas, keep it coming!

 

[78Bronco]

A high pinion dana 44 setup for an early bronco is cheaper to build. If the axle is not a high pinion then you wasting your time.

 

[LaOutbackTrail]

Give this guy a shout (if you're on facebook) he and several other guys in his area SAS monteros and other rigs...
https://www.facebook.com/9W6HLM?fref=ts

GenI with 70 series axles.
The idea has crossed my mind. To be different. But check my "thoughts" post from today on my build thread. The montero does what I need it to with the IFS. If I build our FJ62 for overlanding, then I may make the Montero a more capable offroader and consider an SAS.

 

[muravko]

SAS on Pajero in Primorsky kray, Russia)

1) Nakhodka, Primorsky kray.
4d56t + MT Hilux + tlc 70 series axles
http://4x4.primorye.ru/vehicle.aspx?id=34&stype=0&sid=3&page=0


2) Vladivostok, Primorsky kray.
4DR6t + MMC canter MT + Transfere case Nissan Safari + fr axle tlc 70 series + rear axle
http://4x4.primorye.ru/vehicle.aspx?id=11&stype=0&sid=3&page=0



3) Vladivostok, Primorsky kray.
V1.0 - 4M40 + fr axle tlc 60 series + pajero rear axle
V2.0 - 4M40 + Volvo C303 (laplander) axles
http://4x4.primorye.ru/vehicle.aspx?id=98&stype=0&sid=3&page=0


4) and other without information in internet)

 

[zukrider]

awesome pics! love the tires!


i agree the dana would be cheaper, but i am going to stay metric. thanx 78Bronco.

 

[off-roader]

Wow, 303 axles? Awesome!!

 

[muravko]

yes. 303, but we called it Laplander in Russia.