GMT-800 Suburban lift options?

[Martinjmpr]

T-bar key help!

Wanted to put this out too, to see if there are any possible solutions.
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As I said, Tom came over with his power tools and helped me with the lift. We got about 80% of the lift done: 2 x rear Z71 springs, 2 x Bilstein rear shocks, 2 x Bilstein front shocks (man, were THOSE a PITA!) and 2 x Moog front sway bar extensions.
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BUT, we were NOT able to get the T-bar keys out. I don't know why - but there is a fair amount of surface rust on the underside of my 'Burb courtesy of 8 years in Wisconsin. I sprayed the crap out of the key area with PB blaster but no joy. We unloaded the keys using the unloading tool, removed the screw adjuster, but we could NOT budge the T-bars to move them forward so the keys would drop out.
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Does anyone have any recommendations as to how we can do this? I'm at a loss: You can't access the back of the T-bar to tap it forward as there is a crossmember in the way. The only way I can think of to move the T-bar forward would be to put some kind of jaw on the t-bar itself and somehow "lever" it forward.
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I think at this point I'm resolved to see if I can find a shop that can do the T-bar keys but I'm sure I'm not the only person who's ever tried to put a key lift on a rusty Chevy. How do I get those dang T-bars to slide forward so the key will drop out? Did we miss a step somewhere?

 

[Martinjmpr]

Just did some google searching, I'm afraid I might be in for something like this:
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http://www.gmc4x4.com/topic/2739-leveling-kit-with-stuck-rusted-on-torsion-bars/

 

[rayra]

Drive the torsion bar REARWARD, from the exposed end in its socket in the lower control arm. It doesn't have to go far, it just has to be broken free of the rust lock in the torsion keys. Then it should easily come out forward.
You can still see the residue of the penetrating oil I shot on the front end of my torsion bar durign my own key install. But that was overkill, iron bar aluminum lower arm, should be any sort of serious corrosion-'welding' there.

BTW, there should be a hole in the torsion key crossmember specifically for driving the torsion bar forward out of the key. A large flat punch or a 1"x6" piece of black iron pipe, driven with a sledge or 3# maul should be sufficient.

Note too, the hex shape of the torsion bars is irregular and smaller than the keyhole, in both the lower and the key. Like a 12mm bolt head turning in a 13mm socket. It contacts and binds only on those shoulders.
With everything supported, the suspension hanging in space, and NO unloading tool on the key, you should be able to bang on the underside of the round part of the key OR use a simliar punch and hammer to ********** sharply upward on the end tab of the key to break the rust weld in the keyhole. Then drive the torsion bar out normally.

OR

with the vehicle / tire on the ground and the vehicle weight supported on jack / jackstands, torsion key unloaded, the keeper and bolt removed, then lower the vehicle on the jack until the frozen key rotates enough for the end to hang out, then hammer on that end tab to jar / rotate it free.

OR

you insert a crowbar up into the frame crossrail above the end of the key and use that for leverage to jar or bang the key free

OR

put a torch on the key and get it damned hot. It will expand and break the rust-weld.



DON'T use any sort of powered jackhammer directly on the torsion bar ends. Use an intermediate hunk of metal to beat on and transfer the shock to the torsion bar.


There's lots of ways to do it. There will be blood.

 

[rayra]

Just did some google searching, I'm afraid I might be in for something like this:
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http://www.gmc4x4.com/topic/2739-leveling-kit-with-stuck-rusted-on-torsion-bars/

It worked, but what's described at that link is some hamfisted brute force hack bull****e.


Seriously, take a couple minutes this evening and slop some naval jelly everywhere you can reach on both ends of the torsion bar - especially thru that frame hole I pointed out above - and on the sides of the torsion key inside the crossmember and let it work until you can try again. Then apply some force in the ways I described above and it should come out.

Use TIME to your advantage. Go hose everything with penetrating oil some more. Let it work ALL WEEK.

 

[Martinjmpr]

So a liberal dose of PB blaster, a steel rod and a BFH should do it?

 

[rayra]

That is my assertion. There's really nothing holding it in there except rust and the rotational binding.

After you take the keeper out, take the unloading tool off, before you try beating it loose. Watch for the falling torsion key.

 

[ExplorerTom]

We tried the hammer method (although it was just a framing hammer) on the forward and aft side of the T-bar. We didn't have great access to the front and the CV boot was in danger of getting whacked. A longer steel pipe would have worked better than what we used. When I was hammering the aft side, something fell into my eye and that pretty well put me out of commission. Note to self: wear safety glasses.

I don't think we tried much on the left side. We did have to unload the T-bar to let the LCA drop out enough to be able to put in the longer Bilstein shock.

If it wasn't for that rust, it would have been a pretty simple swap.

 

[rayra]

Rust laughs at your puny 16-24oz framing hammer. You need at least a 3-lb maul.

Jack the front up and attack the front end of the torsion bar from below, that way you are nowhere near the CV boot. Get a length of 1" black pipe to use as your punch, that way you aren't flailing around delicate stuff or in an awkward position under the vehicle. Black pipe in short lengths is about $3/foot. A top quality 3-lb hammer is only $16.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Estwing-48-oz-Steel-Drilling-Hammer-MRF3LB/202183868

 

[Bear in NM]

Martin,

Like the link to the thread you posted, I had watched one youtube where they took the entire cross member out, due to rust. In that video, with the entire cross member out, they still had to torch the key, and beat on it like crazy. My Av is pretty rust free, and it still took a 2.5 pound small sledge. Trying to lay on your back while pounding is not a lot of fun. If I had lots of rust, I would certainly let the parts soak in penetrating oil for a week, bang with a proper sledge, and then try the torch. For myself, if those did not work, I probably would have opted for the shop to do it, rather than pull the cross member out.

I guess only you can gauge your limits, as we do not know just how bad the rust really is. Good luck.

Craig

 

[Martinjmpr]

I think at this point I may just call up a local shop and explain the situation to them. As long as the cost is reasonable I don't mind farming it out. It's not so much that I 'can't' do it, more just that a shop is going to have a lift, heavy hammers and the experience (as I said, I can't be the only person with a rusty Chevy who wants to lift it) to do it quickly.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Post-lift measurements and pics!

Measurements and pics:

Measurements were taken from the ground to the bottom lip of the fender, measured at the center line of the wheel hub, and to the very bottom of the trailer receiver hitch.

Before lift:

LF: 35 1/2"
LR: 36 3/8"
RR: 36 5/8"
RF: 35.5"
Hitch bottom: 13 3/8"

After Lift:

LF: 35.5
LR: 38"
RR: 37 7/8"
RF: 36"
Hitch Bottom: 15 7/8"

As you can see by those measurements I got about 1 1/2" on the rear axle and a negligible increase on the front (though I could probably crank my keys up a bit if I wanted some lift.)

Pics: I'm not sure how to do those fancy animated GIFs so I'll just post these up. Not sure you can really see the difference though:

Before:



After:



The angle of the photos is slightly different but I think you can see that there is a noticeable "rake" to the front.

Side by side comparison of the stock (LT) and replacement (brand new Z71) springs. Difference in length was about 2 1/2":



Rear shocks:



I didn't do a photo of the front shocks but the difference wasn't that much. However, the front shocks were really trashed, rusty and just crappy. I'm hoping the Bilsteins give me a nicer ride.

 

[Burb One]

Looks great! I'm sure those Bilsteins will do wonders! Everyone loves them

In terms of the torsion bar. You need a BIGFH. I wouldn't worry too much about wacking those bars. You need to break the rust. One of mine in my nice CA condition slid right out but my other one spent some time in NV and needed a BFH.

 

[Arizona Native]

Nice, bigger tires and you'll be right where I'm at. Yours sags to the right too! Mine is almost an inch difference though, drives me nuts! I've heard its just a thing, but I have too much OCD and want to fix it.

 

[Burb One]

Nice, bigger tires and you'll be right where I'm at. Yours sags to the right too! Mine is almost an inch difference though, drives me nuts! I've heard its just a thing, but I have too much OCD and want to fix it.[/QUOTE

I noticed that on mine too when it was stock. I am 99% sure is is the (full) gas tank and battery are both drive side, much less if measured with a driver. Thats ~400 pounds on one side.

 

[Ramblejam]

Thanks for the link and info!

Took a look at my 2004 Suburban 2500; 6GK and 7GK, which are rated @ 8615.

I looked at my torsion bar codes on the 2000, 6XL and 7XL. That is the second lightest bar you can have at 4626 torque capacity.
As a comparison my daughter has a 92 Z71 2 door full size Blazer here and it has GF torsion bars rated at 5826.
My 1993 Suburban has GH torsion bars rated at 7161.
My son has his 1993 extra cab shortbed light duty with him so I can't get the bar code from it.

To find out what you have/had from the factory, look at the white service replacement sticker in the bottom of your glove box.
The torsion bar codes are toward the end of the list and will have a 6 and 7 in front of the 2 letter torsion bar code.
Using the two letters of the code you can look up your torsion bars and determine their torque capacity. The most complete list I have seen is the "GM torsion bar 401" list.

I am not sure if torque capacity is the correct term, but it is obviously not spring or load capacity because even the XL torsion bars rated at 4626 would be an extreme spring rate or corner load capacity rivaling a 1 ton truck. So I am going to stick with torque capacity as a measure of torsion bar tension.

The "GM torsion bar 401" states that Tahoes and Avalanches and maybe Suburbans have shorter torsion bars in them. Possibly 2" shorter. My daughters 2004 Tahoe has XL bars in it also, so I will have to measure the length of my torsion bars in my 2000 when I work on the front suspension next week. If the XL bars are shorter, then the Ford keys may be my only lift option.

Oh and yes I am pretty sure you can have those valve stems swapped to the 16" wheels.