Go with all soft shackles?

[LandCruiserPhil]

Having been around when both steel and synthetic line broke makes you appreciate synthetic much more. Also, break a synthetic line you can just tie it back together, Steel line not so easy.

 

[DaveInDenver]

ASME B30.9-2018: Slings
It covers some non-metallic devices used for overhead lifting.

B30.9 has nylon web slings, roundslings, woven eye rope slings, wire rope slings, steel chain slings. I don't see anything about a knotted shackle. The industry that I thought might cover them is arborists, that's what I assumed would be the first specifying authority someone might mention.

My curiosity is how something relying on workmanship and technique can be standardized to be repeatable, inspectable and testable (thus certified and tagged as such). B30 generally outlines design margins and proof testing criteria, for example. Does this apply to soft shackles?

 

[DaveInDenver]

You can tie wirerope back together.
Of course everybody knows either rope "just tied together" is severely weakened.

As an aside,
Its amusing how rope'tards go on about synthetic rope breaking. It "simply falls in place, not dangerous at all".
Obviously they parroting something heard in the airport mensroom. They never been near a line breaking under stress.

 

[hemifoot]

anyone know what effect oil/gas/ grease/ solvent has on the integrity of a synthetic line? i know we have to discard our work safety ropes if they even get stored in the same work truck closet as petroleum.

 

[s.e.charles]

 

[DaveInDenver]

anyone know what effect oil/gas/ grease/ solvent has on the integrity of a synthetic line? i know we have to discard our work safety ropes if they even get stored in the same work truck closet as petroleum.

Attached Dyneema chemical resistance paper.

 

[Lucky j]

Personal eyes on experience.

I have seen many synthetic lines rupture over the years, and not a single wire line. I know the wire can also snap, simply have never seen one with my own eye, and even video from youtube are not many. You see hicht month, ancor points, but not many wires or even synthetic.

And btw, my Warn HS9500i has the same wire from when it was new in 2000 and was use in all kinds of recovery, including very deep mud, like fender hight moss. The synthetic line I saw break where maybe 2 years old. And one broke at the drum all the way inside probably 4 layers. So forget about slpicing that thing.

I know they are nice and light, but in my book, not as reliable for general use. And I could use lighter weight, since I have a front and rear winch. But can just not comit my self with what I have seen from my one eyes so far. Not for the price they go for.

Have you ever run synthetic line and soft shackles or are you just repeating internet rumor?

I've had the same synthetic line on the old winch on the flat fender for over 7+ years now. I haven't done anything special to it. It still works as well as day 1.
That line has been all over the country including mud, sand, snow, rocks, etc.
I've used line that was over 15 years old.

Most of the rumors about synthetic based recovery products are greatly exadurated in my experience.

 

[MOguy]

anyone know what effect oil/gas/ grease/ solvent has on the integrity of a synthetic line? i know we have to discard our work safety ropes if they even get stored in the same work truck closet as petroleum.

Most don't consider that. At work every rope used that for life safety has its own log. EVERYTIME it is used it is inspected and logged.

 

[MOguy]

Personal eyes on experience.

I have seen many synthetic lines rupture over the years, and not a single wire line. I know the wire can also snap, simply have never seen one with my own eye, and even video from youtube are not many. You see hicht month, ancor points, but not many wires or even synthetic.

And btw, my Warn HS9500i has the same wire from when it was new in 2000 and was use in all kinds of recovery, including very deep mud, like fender hight moss. The synthetic line I saw break where maybe 2 years old. And one broke at the drum all the way inside probably 4 layers. So forget about slpicing that thing.

I know they are nice and light, but in my book, not as reliable for general use. And I could use lighter weight, since I have a front and rear winch. But can just not comit my self with what I have seen from my one eyes so far. Not for the price they go for.

I have had the same winch you have and the same line since 2001. Cable lasts, rope is easier to deal with. If you want rope just keep up with and be prepared to change it more often.

I will never go with a rope cable because of the environment I am in, but that's me.

 

[Metcalf]

B30.9 has nylon web slings, roundslings, woven eye rope slings, wire rope slings, steel chain slings. I don't see anything about a knotted shackle. The industry that I thought might cover them is arborists, that's what I assumed would be the first specifying authority someone might mention.

My curiosity is how something relying on workmanship and technique can be standardized to be repeatable, inspectable and testable (thus certified and tagged as such). B30 generally outlines design margins and proof testing criteria, for example. Does this apply to soft shackles?

I haven't seen anything covering soft shackles specifically. The concept came out of the marine industry. There has been some good testing in those circles on the different designs. I haven't seen anything as far as a code goes. All the standard rope inspection guidelines still apply to the sections you can inspect.

Again, I think we are getting a lot of bleed over from overhead lifting into vehicle recovery. I have my reservations about this. The high safety margins are borderline ridiculous for vehicle recovery.
Everyone gets obsessed about the rating on the shackle.....but completely ignores the device the shackle is attached to. It's silly.

 

[Metcalf]

Having been around when both steel and synthetic line broke makes you appreciate synthetic much more. Also, break a synthetic line you can just tie it back together, Steel line not so easy.

Technically, you can SPLICE both back together. You don't want to tie either one.

The benefit goes to synthetic line in my opinion because you can splice it with a sharp pocket knife and an improvised fid made from a ball point pen.
So splice steel cable you generally need a tool to cut the strands of the hardened steel, usually something abrasive. A steel splice also has exposed strands that don't like getting wound up back on the drum.

 

[MOguy]

Every few years I break a recovery strap. I have had the same wire cable on my winch until 200l. I keep my recovery gear in a back pack, I run my cable or strap through the straps on the back pack. When a strap breaks it makes a popping noise and falls to the ground, very uneventful. One time I didn't use my back pack and my strap broke, it made the same popping noise and just fell to the ground, very uneventful. I think rope stretches more than the straps I have had so if it breaks it may be more eventful.

 

[Metcalf]

And one broke at the drum all the way inside probably 4 layers. So forget about slpicing that thing.

The attachment to the drum is something that needs to be thought about. Not properly spooling the line under tension will generally lead to this kind of failure.
There are some winches that are better or worse for the attachment of the line to the drum. If this was taken into account by the MFG it would be a non-issue.
Some of the new Warn winches....and old stuff like the 8274...have a much stronger attachment system.

The winches that use the small screw style fasteners on the drum are the worst.

 

[Metcalf]

Most don't consider that. At work every rope used that for life safety has its own log. EVERYTIME it is used it is inspected and logged.

So you are saying you do the same thing for the wire rope on your winch?

 

[Lucky j]

I do agree with what you say.

But for the abrasive splice of wire cable. For an example, ski lift wire are splice and rn on pulleys under load all winter long. So it can be done. But I consider this an art, compare to splicing synthetic cable. But again, as much as I would like synthetic, not enough reliability for the typical use I have, based on personal experience. And safety can be arange.

Technically, you can SPLICE both back together. You don't want to tie either one.

The benefit goes to synthetic line in my opinion because you can splice it with a sharp pocket knife and an improvised fid made from a ball point pen.
So splice steel cable you generally need a tool to cut the strands of the hardened steel, usually something abrasive. A steel splice also has exposed strands that don't like getting wound up back on the drum.