Going domestic, project vanilla aka the family tankster, 2004 Suburban 2500

[upcruiser]

Looking ahead here one thing I don want to add is a proper rack system for the Burb. Have any of you put a Thule or Yakima system on the your trucks? Just curious at what the bar to roof clearance is when using their kits that utilize the factory side rails. I want to be able to haul a canoe or kayaks on top, occasionally lumber for home projects.

Also, what kind of tire pressure are you 2500 Burb guys running highway and off road? These tires I have on it are load range D but 285/75. Trying to figure out what I should go with highway normally, while towing our camper, and while exploring off the pavement.

 

[upcruiser]

Congrats on the NBS Suburban, and yes I think these GM SUVs are indeed underappreciated, I love my Tahoe and it has not let me down off road yet. Though, if I had a "do over" card, I would get a 2500 Suburban, that extra bit of length can be a big difference in cargo capacity and usefulness. Good job shopping and finding a cherry of a ride.:safari-rig: If your brake lines are in good shape keep an eye on them now that it is living in salt country. My Tahoe was a Michigan vehicle when I bought it off lease and the brake lines started going bad in 2013, ended up replacing all of mine this past fall with a stainless kit. Definitely invest in some good tires for the rig, and also look into getting an engine tune. My personal recommendation is BlackBear Performance, they did a great job doing a "rolling tune" on my truck and really helped make the engine more responsive.

If you have any questions about your rig don't hesitate to drop me a PM.

Thanks! I have enjoyed reading your posts over the years. I don't expect this rig to be driven in the salt much. I don't have a commute and am only planning on using this for family trips, and adventures that we don't use the Land Cruiser for. Cutting its teeth on a 2 month trip through the southwest then back to our old stomping grounds in Jackson, WY before hitting the coast and heading up into British Columbia and working back east. We are dragging this thing along for our home on wheels, mainly living in it, but planning on some multiple day outings camping in either a ground tent or in the back of the Burb.



I have read a little about tunes and responsiveness, are there much in the way of real world mpg gains as well?

 

[upcruiser]

A couple of other things I am considering before our trip this spring. I am debating taking off the running boards, but even if I don't I want to put a set of good mud flaps on to prevent gravel pinging the bodywork of the truck. I have had rally armor mud flaps on my STi, and they make a general application version but I think they wouldn't be long enough to really provide protection for a full size truck on 33's.



Any suggestions or recommendations other than the stuff you can find at an auto parts store? The Rally Armor stuff is nice and heavy duty which is appealing. Everything I have seen that is auto parts store quality tends to be super thin and flimsy.

Tires.

Here is what is on the truck now, they only have 6,000 miles on them and are still pretty fresh.


My concern is sidewall durability when bumping around in the dirt. I have always considered tires to be one of the most important investments you can make on an overland rig. While the budget minded part of my brain says, just use these tires up, the other side says, invest in some decent tires that will give peace of mind. While some of the more technical types of stuff that we did in the Cruiser or FJ Cruiser aren't really on the menu for this truck, we still plan on big mileage in the dirt in easy to moderately challenging conditions with a lot of rock. I know the value of a dedicated winter tire but since we don't really need to drive this truck much in the winter and I have no commute or anything, I see one good set as the way to go. I have enjoyed the Duratracs we are running on our FJ Cruiser, I feel it was a good compromise of on road ride, snow performance, dry desert conditions, and even decent in mud. My eye keeps returning to the General Grabber AT2's, mostly because of their price point.

Anyone have any experience with these?

Lastly, shocks, the factory units on the truck currently seem to be in good nick but I haven't had a chance to try this truck out in slow speed, off road types of driving. While I am planning to air down for our off pavement travels, I have a fear the ride might still be a bit harsh or the shocks not up to the challenge. Considering upgrading to Bilstein 5100's while leveling the front of the truck. What kind of real world ride quality would I see? Reviews I have read express huge improvements but none I saw pertained much to off road driving. Any feedback there would be appreciated.

Most rigs I have owned or used for this kind of travel have so much aftermarket and documentation of upgrades online, its shocking to me to have virtually no info at my fingertips when google searching upgrades. Seems like these trucks are used for towing, or 6" lifted street queens that aren't really used off road. I like the challenge though!

 

[snowblind]

on 90mile drive the other day, mostly on two lane highway the avg econ was showing 15mpg on the dial, and with the 285's the speedo is 5mph off at 60 so I think that could have been realistically 16. From what I read, a 33" tire with 4.10's is essentially the same final drive as the stock tires and 3.72's. Haven't really driven it 70 yet, the closest freeway is 150+ miles away.

I'm running 285/70/17s and 3.72s. That is around 2500 rpm @ 70mph. But I have the 8.1 so keeping it low is more appropriate. Still... much above 70mph and fuel economy starts to suffer.

Looks like there is quite a bit of adjustment left on the front torsion bars so planning to level it out via the stock keys and see how it rides, if it is rough, my buddy TJ and his shop Roam Auto has the keys for it in stock to bump it up more. I think the ride is great right now, I don't want to sacrifice the ride quality or wheel droop so it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

Turning up the bars will change a lot of different angles and puts pressure on tie-rod, upper ball joint, CVs, etc, etc. You might want to consider an upper control arm replacement to help with these angles. Your stock shocks will be too short also. You will need longer shocks or relocation brackets.

When I first raised my front end there 1.5" there was little increase in stiffness. I recently went up to 2.5" and the ride is definitely stiffer. But I think it is at least better matched to the rear.




Matt

 

[snowblind]

Have any of you put a Thule or Yakima system on the your trucks? Just curious at what the bar to roof clearance is when using their kits that utilize the factory side rails. I want to be able to haul a canoe or kayaks on top, occasionally lumber for home projects.

I have a Thule set up. I prefer their square bars to the Yakima round bars. The bars attach to my 2001 with a generic foot that wraps the factory rack with a strap while simultaneously clamping down on the load bar. There is no option for a highrise foot but there is still 6" or so between the roof and the bars.



I run a Yakima Skybox18 full of tents and sleeping bags up there when we go camping. Usually leave it bare the rest of the time. Thule makes quick release load brackets for carrying lumber, etc.




Matt

 

[02TahoeMD]

. I am debating taking off the running boards, but even if I don't I want to put a set of good mud flaps on to prevent gravel pinging the bodywork of the truck. I have had rally armor mud flaps on my STi, and they make a general application version but I think they wouldn't be long enough to really provide protection for a full size truck on 33's.


......

Lastly, shocks, the factory units on the truck currently seem to be in good nick but I haven't had a chance to try this truck out in slow speed, off road types of driving. While I am planning to air down for our off pavement travels, I have a fear the ride might still be a bit harsh or the shocks not up to the challenge. Considering upgrading to Bilstein 5100's while leveling the front of the truck. What kind of real world ride quality would I see? Reviews I have read express huge improvements but none I saw pertained much to off road driving. Any feedback there would be appreciated.

Most rigs I have owned or used for this kind of travel have so much aftermarket and documentation of upgrades online, its shocking to me to have virtually no info at my fingertips when google searching upgrades. Seems like these trucks are used for towing, or 6" lifted street queens that aren't really used off road. I like the challenge though!

Definitely remove the running boards. It will give you better clearance immediately. I once had a Expedition with running boards and it got hung up on a tiny stump along a trail necessitating a multi - point turn along the trail that would have been a non-issue had they NOT been there. I don't think I would worry much about mud flaps, I have been driving dirt roads and gravel roads for years without much in the way of paint damage. Picked up some trail pinstriping but nothing worth repainting.

I put 2inch spacers on my rear and cranked the torsion bars to match and have found the ride to be more firm but by no means bad. My girlfriend used to drive a lifted Toyota and she was quite amazed at how comfortable my truck is compared to what she knew of lifted trucks.

I have the Bilstein 5100s / extended length on my truck and think they are pretty decent shocks. Definitely a step up from the factory ones as well as the Rancho's I used to have. If you are looking for some more information about our trucks check out z71tahoe-suburban and gmc4x4 sites. Agreed that there is limited support for this body style of vehicle (especially when compared to the legions of Jeep aftermarket companies) but there are things that can be repurposed to work on the GM NBS SUV.

As for tires, no experience with the brands you have shown and are shopping, but agreed that a good tire can be a game changer off road. So far, been very happy with my Nitto Terra Grapplers (never been stuck, and never had a flat in 7 years) but will probably try out some Coopers with my next set based on the Expo /O.J. tire test.

 

[upcruiser]

I'm running 285/70/17s and 3.72s. That is around 2500 rpm @ 70mph. But I have the 8.1 so keeping it low is more appropriate. Still... much above 70mph and fuel economy starts to suffer.



Turning up the bars will change a lot of different angles and puts pressure on tie-rod, upper ball joint, CVs, etc, etc. You might want to consider an upper control arm replacement to help with these angles. Your stock shocks will be too short also. You will need longer shocks or relocation brackets.

When I first raised my front end there 1.5" there was little increase in stiffness. I recently went up to 2.5" and the ride is definitely stiffer. But I think it is at least better matched to the rear.




Matt

Good info, thanks for sharing. Driving 60mph right now I am at 2,000rpm so that seems to be similar gearing-wise, need to run 70 and see where its spinning still. Did a 90mile drive on two land road the other day cruising at 60 and reset the avg economy function and registered 16mpg. The speedo is off by 5mph so that number real world-wise is even a touch higher. My FJ with the RTT gets 17-18mpg at that speed so, again, I am pleasantly happy with the economy. Around town I have been seeing around 12mpg. I am deliberately driving easy to see what kind of numbers I can get.

Do you think I will have issues with the shocks going up an 1.5" in the front? That was what I was shooting to do, about 1.5" to reduce the rake. I figure with ~450-475lbs of tongue weight for our camper I will probably be sitting close to level without weight distribution. I don't think I will need to use the weight distribution system when towing it with the Burb.

 

[upcruiser]

I have a Thule set up. I prefer their square bars to the Yakima round bars. The bars attach to my 2001 with a generic foot that wraps the factory rack with a strap while simultaneously clamping down on the load bar. There is no option for a highrise foot but there is still 6" or so between the roof and the bars.

View attachment 275193

I run a Yakima Skybox18 full of tents and sleeping bags up there when we go camping. Usually leave it bare the rest of the time. Thule makes quick release load brackets for carrying lumber, etc.

View attachment 275194




Matt

I have been running Thule stuff on my vehicles mostly and prefer it to Yakima from my experiences with both. 6" is just about right for how high I wanted the bars off the roof. Enough to mount my kayak stackers and be able to rotate them, and other random attachments. Good stuff. I was debating plopping an RTT on top for some of our outings but I think I am just going to try and use the interior space or invest in a large ground tent like an OZ tent and free up the ability to haul canoes and stuff on the roof of the truck. I have enjoyed using an RTT but it just takes up too much good real state on the roof and adds drag.

 

[upcruiser]

Definitely remove the running boards. It will give you better clearance immediately. I once had a Expedition with running boards and it got hung up on a tiny stump along a trail necessitating a multi - point turn along the trail that would have been a non-issue had they NOT been there. I don't think I would worry much about mud flaps, I have been driving dirt roads and gravel roads for years without much in the way of paint damage. Picked up some trail pinstriping but nothing worth repainting.

I put 2inch spacers on my rear and cranked the torsion bars to match and have found the ride to be more firm but by no means bad. My girlfriend used to drive a lifted Toyota and she was quite amazed at how comfortable my truck is compared to what she knew of lifted trucks.

I have the Bilstein 5100s / extended length on my truck and think they are pretty decent shocks. Definitely a step up from the factory ones as well as the Rancho's I used to have. If you are looking for some more information about our trucks check out z71tahoe-suburban and gmc4x4 sites. Agreed that there is limited support for this body style of vehicle (especially when compared to the legions of Jeep aftermarket companies) but there are things that can be repurposed to work on the GM NBS SUV.

As for tires, no experience with the brands you have shown and are shopping, but agreed that a good tire can be a game changer off road. So far, been very happy with my Nitto Terra Grapplers (never been stuck, and never had a flat in 7 years) but will probably try out some Coopers with my next set based on the Expo /O.J. tire test.

Yeah, I think my wife agrees that we don't need the running boards. Only useful thing I see with them is ease of securing stuff to the roof. The step in height is quite a bit lower than our 80 series on 33's with the OME lift. Right now she is 8 months pregnant and has been getting in and out of the burb without using the running boards anyway. While shopping Suburbans for the past 6 months I have seen so many with no paint behind the rear wheels, and with the 285's on here right now, it does a fine job of throwing dirt and mud all over the body from the front tires with the running boards right now even. I think the mud flaps are a bit of body preservation for living where I live. Bare metal or stone chips turn to rust quickly. This truck will see a lot of highway miles traveling but also a lot of gravel and dirt. We are planning a Trans Labrador trip next year and all I can picture is the endless miles of gravel pinging the body work. The truck is so mint right now it kills me, haha. I know after the first scratch I will relax, lol. I had to get rid of my STi because I was so paranoid to stone chip the near perfect paint work it took away from the experience of having a car that was partly designed to play in the dirt…. did great on the track though ;-)

Still debating shocks at the moment. What was your impression of the ride quality when you switched to the Bilsteins?

 

[02TahoeMD]

Still debating shocks at the moment. What was your impression of the ride quality when you switched to the Bilsteins?

To access my roof rack, I either just open a door and stand on the door sill, or stand on my rear tire, or stand on the rear bumper. I personally think these trucks look much better without running boards, but some rock sliders or nerf tubes ( like the Z71 package ) are a good compromise and improvement over the running boards that can allow you easier access to the roof. I can see your point about taking a trip on endless miles of gravel road. Sorry I don't have any experience with mudflaps of any kind. As for the shocks, my only regret was that I had not gotten the Bilsteins sooner. They were a measured improvement over the Ranchos.

 

[snowblind]

Yeah, I think my wife agrees that we don't need the running boards. Only useful thing I see with them is ease of securing stuff to the roof.

I load my roof rack with a cargo box and a propane tank and a camp table and the running boards make it MUCH easier to get things up, down and around the roof. I'm 6'1" and I use the rear bumper, running boards, door sills, second row seats and rear tires as my perch depending on what is going up /coming down. It would be nice to have a set of REAL sliders instead of running boards but all I've seen for these vehicles is purely cosmetic.

and with the 285's on here right now, it does a fine job of throwing dirt and mud all over the body from the front tires with the running boards right now even. I think the mud flaps are a bit of body preservation for living where I live.

I had mudflaps on the front of mine and they work a little but not much. The lower part of the body tapers so much that the front wheels always paint the body with spray. I have some fender flares I picked up used a little while ago that I hope will help with this.



Matt

 

[snowblind]

I have been running Thule stuff on my vehicles mostly and prefer it to Yakima from my experiences with both. 6" is just about right for how high I wanted the bars off the roof. Enough to mount my kayak stackers and be able to rotate them, and other random attachments.

I might have overestimated saying 6". I'm thinking it's more like 3-4". Here is a photo.

View attachment 275877

Still... I would think most/all Thule mounts will fit. Just might not have the flexibility you are used to.




Matt

 

[upcruiser]

So, have been spending more time driving the rig and thought I would document some of my impressions in case anyone else finds it useful, the type of feedback I was trying to find when debating the merits of a Suburban, painted from the background of a fairly diehard Toyota guy.

This past Saturday we did a little drive, spring weather has made the skiing terrible, the snow biking non rideable, and hiking, slushy and muddy. So seemed like a good excuse to do a little drive and sight see a bit. We probably drove 160 miles or so total. First half was nice two land paved highway. As mentioned earlier, I reset the avg econ mode and it read a solid 16mpg cruising at 60mph. Our speedo is off with the 285's so it should actually be a little higher assuming it is accurate to begin with. The first thing that strikes me with this truck is the comfort. Its like driving while lounging in your living room. Probably the most comfortable seats for spending hours in at a time I have had a in vehicle. Usually I get some sort of lower back annoyance but not in this truck. They aren't very supportive seats but they sure are comfy. At highway speeds the Burb is impressively quiet.

While there is a bit of initial harshness when hitting large bumps, the body movements seem well controlled and I feel with dropping the air temps off road would do away with that harshness. Overall the truck feels tight, no squeaks or rattles despite the door panel, console, and dash seeming a bit flimsy to the touch. So far so good, digging it, and my kiddo Kruz gets excited to ride in it which I can't say for any of our other vehicles.

The second half of our drive on Saturday involved one of the roughest, destroyed paved roads probably in the area followed by a 20 mile section of dirt road that was a mix of packed snow, ice, standing water, and mud. Thankfully the ground is still frozen as dirt roads up here become impassible once the thaw hits. The paved section we did no more than 45mph and the dirt 20 max due to the roughness. I had to use 4wd since some of the muddy sections were pretty slimy. No surprises from the truck, a 130" wheelbase lends itself to pretty stable handling. haha



Our mpg average dropped on the trip home down to 13mpg with all the slow driving, hills and mud.

Only other thing to note is that I got a Weathertech floor liner for the second row of seats to go along with the new front Weathertech mats it came with. I have cardboard laid down over the carpeting int he back right now for throwing my fat bike in and out of and not having to worry about mud or melting snow. Cool to be able to flop a bike in the back behind the second row seats without having to take a wheel off or anything. Heres a pic from an outing to Grand Island National Recreation Area in nearby Munising before the weather got crazy warm. Not truck related but this thread needs more pics. :bike_rider:





Being avid paddlers, skiers, bikers, I guess thats the beauty of this rig as it can kind of be whatever we need for whatever activity we have planned.
Next up, cranking the front torsion bars some, and designing the rear bike mounts and bed/storage platform. Our big trip is 2 months away, thankfully the needs for the trip are pretty few, just a lot of wants at this point.

 

[upcruiser]

I might have overestimated saying 6". I'm thinking it's more like 3-4". Here is a photo.

View attachment 275877

Still... I would think most/all Thule mounts will fit. Just might not have the flexibility you are used to.




Matt

The attachment didn't work for me but I saw a pic you posted in your thread. I think that will work fine. I like the fact they slide easily fore and aft along the roof rails. Makes adjusting it for different uses easy.

Also, I hear what you are saying about the way the body tapers, I think mounting mud flaps the way that you would mount something like the Rally Armors where you kick it out off of the side of the body a ways could help with that but then you would need a thicker, stiffer type of mudflap like that. I see Weathertech actually makes mud flaps for the Burbs too.

 

[upcruiser]

I thought some of this info might be helpful to folks contemplating, or better yet quantifying specs when evaluating different rigs for use overland. As mentioned I did so much reading and pondering on different options of what would work best for our fam and the specific types of traveling we were looking to do with this vehicle. While not a lot of folks use domestic rigs in general for overlanding, I think there is some pretty good value for the $ with some of these platforms. Every platform has its limitations, even the venerable 100 series Land Cruiser, arguably the go to answer for what rig you need in North America. There is what I perceive as a bias against domestic trucks, some deserved, some to me are overgeneralized and perhaps not fitting. I think everyone can agree, the drivetrains have always been pretty stout, its more the accessories and fit and finish that seemed to be the weak point in most domestic offerings. Every year practically domestic trucks have made improvements in a host of areas and have even bettered the Japanese vehicles in quality of the overall package in some cases. Still some residual hatred seems to linger. Sentiments to the tune of full size trucks being too unwieldily and too much of a compromise come to mind. So, I have compiled some stats from various rigs I have used in the past decade along with some of the ExPo favorites so we can compare stats easily in areas that I feel are important metrics for rigs used for travel off the beaten path. So, hopefully some of you find this interesting, helpful, or perhaps even a little enlightening…..

These numbers represent the max numbers for the given spec and are a bit of a mix up of random rigs, some more popular with this genre of travel than others. I realize there are more numbers that are applicable to performance off road but these were the important ones for our search and for our needs. Yes there are more exotic offerings and performance in various power trains offered in these rigs world-wide but this is more of what is available in North America (I realize the NAS 110 is low number and big $, some of these are just for the interesting factor).

Vehicle Wheelbase Length Width Payload Cargo volume Fuel Capacity Economy Towing
2004 Suburban 2500 130" 219" 79.8" 2,400lb 149.5cft 37.5 13/17 10,000 6.0/12,000 8.1
FJ Cruiser 105" 184" 75" 1,277lb 66.8cft 19 17/20 5,000lb AT
Land Cruiser 80 112" 189.8" 76" 1,636lb 90.9cft 25.1 12/15 5,000lb
Land Cruiser 100 112" 199.5" 76.4" 1,470lb 90.8cft 25.4 14/16 6,500lb
Land Cruiser 60 107.5" 184" 70.9" NA 98cft 23.8 11/18 3,500lb
Land Rover Disco I 100" 178.7" 70.6" 1,664lb 69.8cft 23.4 13/18 5,500lb
Land Rover D 110 NAS 110" 181" 70.5" 1,656lb NA 20.4 10/12 5,000lb
Jeep Wrangler JKUR 116" 184.4" 73.7" 1,000lb 70.6cft 22.5 17/21 3,500lb
2005 Tacoma DC 127.8" 208.1" 74.6" 1,685lb NA 21 17/21 6,500lb
2005 Tundra DC 140.6" 230" 79.3" 1,635lb NA 26.4 15/18 6,500lb
Ford Excursion 7.3PSD 137" 226.7" 79.9" 1,400lb 146.4 44 NA 11,000lb
2009 Ford F150 crew 157" 243.7" 78.9" 1,320lb NA 36 14/18 8,200lb