Got a winch, now need a battery
- Thread starter Mayne
- Start date
crawler#976
Expedition Leader
I'm using Orbital batteries in my Taco. The Blue Orbital deep cycle battery is rated at 950CCA, the Yellow Orbital starting battery 850CCA. Not sure if they are cheaper, but I do know the performance is similar to the Optima.
Mark
Mark
Colorado Ron
Explorer
Orbital is a good alternative. I have one in my truck, but I do run the yellowtops in my Suburban.
kodiak1232003
Adventurer
optima's have been having spotty reliability and quality the last 2 or 3 years for a lot of folks.
i'd still run them if i bought mine at costco (cheaper,warranty, etc.)
some other alternatives are
-odessey(sp?)
-orbital, check out exides other stuff,too
-walmart brand(truly. lots of bang for the buck)
i'll try to think on some others..
i've winched a couple times on my stock battery and its still going strong, so i'd try to figure out how much you'll really use the winch and match to the battery.
personally i'm not a fan of dual battery setups unless they're setup in series (whichever setup makes two batteries act like one big one,)
i've heard too many stories about duel battery solonoids draining the 2nd battery for one reason or another or not charging properly.
i'd still run them if i bought mine at costco (cheaper,warranty, etc.)
some other alternatives are
-odessey(sp?)
-orbital, check out exides other stuff,too
-walmart brand(truly. lots of bang for the buck)
i'll try to think on some others..
i've winched a couple times on my stock battery and its still going strong, so i'd try to figure out how much you'll really use the winch and match to the battery.
personally i'm not a fan of dual battery setups unless they're setup in series (whichever setup makes two batteries act like one big one,)
i've heard too many stories about duel battery solonoids draining the 2nd battery for one reason or another or not charging properly.
HenryJ
Expedition Leader
How about EastPenn/Deka - DEKA Intimidator 9A78DT
The rep says the Deka Intimidator 34/78 dual terminal was built to compete directly with the Optima Yellow top. He said the ratings are under estimated and it will test higher than advertised. East Penn / Deka impressed me with their customer service.
I promptly received an email with the warranty information I requested. "Hello, below is the answer to your question.
36 months warranty and 12 months free replacement
Thank You and have a great day "
I also made a phone call to the 800 number. There was a message on my machine from last Friday. Today I received another call. The rep said, " Mr.Lehman?" , I said "Yes". "I understand you have a problem with your battery?". I said "No, I was just inquiring as the the warranty. I was told it was 12 months free replacement and prorated after that for a total of three years warranty." He said "That is correct".
I went on to ask about the recycling. That is true. They have their own lead and plastics recycling. 70% of the lead used is recycled and 30% new. 100% of the battery is recycled. The gases are made into fertilizer. This is one reason they have been able to keep their costs low.
I like the "Green" aspects of this battery.
I took recommendation for this battery from a member here. It is an AGM battery. I like that it uses all the available space, whereas the spiral cells lose some due to the voids between round cells.
Right now I would buy the Deka again. The price is nearly half that of the Optima. I don't see any difference in performance so far. Time will tell.
I had been a diehard Optima user, but between the price increase and lack of consistent reliability in the newer batteries, I have lost confidence in Optima.
In my research I considered Odyssey, but the battery for my application is not dry cell. It is AGM. I did not see paying twice the cost for the Odyssey name.
Lifeline was another consideration. Again cost was the deciding factor. I do hear quality is good.
The rep says the Deka Intimidator 34/78 dual terminal was built to compete directly with the Optima Yellow top. He said the ratings are under estimated and it will test higher than advertised. East Penn / Deka impressed me with their customer service.
I promptly received an email with the warranty information I requested. "Hello, below is the answer to your question.
36 months warranty and 12 months free replacement
Thank You and have a great day "
I also made a phone call to the 800 number. There was a message on my machine from last Friday. Today I received another call. The rep said, " Mr.Lehman?" , I said "Yes". "I understand you have a problem with your battery?". I said "No, I was just inquiring as the the warranty. I was told it was 12 months free replacement and prorated after that for a total of three years warranty." He said "That is correct".
I went on to ask about the recycling. That is true. They have their own lead and plastics recycling. 70% of the lead used is recycled and 30% new. 100% of the battery is recycled. The gases are made into fertilizer. This is one reason they have been able to keep their costs low.
I like the "Green" aspects of this battery.
I took recommendation for this battery from a member here. It is an AGM battery. I like that it uses all the available space, whereas the spiral cells lose some due to the voids between round cells.
Right now I would buy the Deka again. The price is nearly half that of the Optima. I don't see any difference in performance so far. Time will tell.
I had been a diehard Optima user, but between the price increase and lack of consistent reliability in the newer batteries, I have lost confidence in Optima.
In my research I considered Odyssey, but the battery for my application is not dry cell. It is AGM. I did not see paying twice the cost for the Odyssey name.
Lifeline was another consideration. Again cost was the deciding factor. I do hear quality is good.
What is the rating of your alternator? I ask because no one's battery can long provide the amperage needed to run a winch under load without support from the alternator. The best dual battery setup going will not work for long if you have a 45 amp stock alternator to support them. Alternatively, the average auto battery will work as well as any if supported by a 145 amp alternator. To support the high draw of a winch, you need to review your entire electrical supply system, which includes but is not limited to a good battery. Simply using larger supply leads to the winch than are generally supplied by the manufacturer can increase performance and decrease demand on the system. Remembering to increase your engine RPM during winching will greatly enhance performance because no alternator makes its full rated output at idle speeds.
Point is that while it may be a good idea to choose a battery that performs well while winching (high output and fast recovery), it is not entirely necessary if the balance of the system is rated to provide good support, and if the system is not adequate, switching batteries won't allow you to use the winch for significantly longer than with your original battery.
Point is that while it may be a good idea to choose a battery that performs well while winching (high output and fast recovery), it is not entirely necessary if the balance of the system is rated to provide good support, and if the system is not adequate, switching batteries won't allow you to use the winch for significantly longer than with your original battery.
kodiak1232003
Adventurer
madizell said:
good point. might be the best money spent if you can upgrade your alternator to a high output one like a mean-green or something.
the premier power welder usually comes packed with a new alternator...you get a welder, an alternator, and a ac/dc outlet all in one...
HenryJ
Expedition Leader
The whole system needs to work together for maximum performance. I am sure you have heard the electrical system described in terms of water. Lakes , streams and other charging system things: The battery is the reservoir, or lake. The system is fed and serviced by wires , which are the streams, or probably a better analogy would be pipes. And the alternator is the water supply , faucet or pump.
Voltage is the lake or a static measurement. Amperage is the flow. The alternator is the supply.
When the alternator supplies all the amperage , or flow needed voltage is maintained and the battery or lake stays full as demand increases and supply is unable to maintain all of the load the lake is drained.
Obviously a bigger lake will help a system with a small pump, although the pump will need to run a long time to keep up. Add a bigger pump to keep the lake full and you may need bigger pipes to make any difference in filling the lake.
Never underestimate the value of a good deep lake.
This lake has several ponds. Lets say six. One of these ponds just will not completely fill no matter how much you pump into it. This makes the pump heat and it is unable to maintain the depth for the whole lake. As a result the depth of the lake suffers as does the supply available to the whole system. Be sure your lake is as full as it should be and it will fill to the proper level. This all comes from a recent adventure with my charging system. I play with things way too much, probably. I was having some regulator problems, and alternator problems. Finally I got those resolved and the charging system beefed up to maintain voltage.
After reading an article on batteries I became aware that AGM batteries hold a slightly higher voltage. I started to suspect I may have a bad cell in mine. It would maintain reasonable voltage around 12.3-12.5 , but would dip to 11.8 sometimes. It would not go less than 11 during cranking and under a load.
I did not know that the battery should be 12.8-13.5 with a full charge and maintain that level pretty easily. Roughly .5 volts higher than I expected.
Once replaced the whole system must have sighed a huge sigh of relief.
The system now maintains closer to 14.7 volts , whereas prior to this it stayed closer to 14.2. I really didn't think that the battery would so greatly affect the charging voltage. Live and learn.
All the system parts need to be upgraded as demands are increased. Each plays a part and needs to be in good working order.
Voltage is the lake or a static measurement. Amperage is the flow. The alternator is the supply.
When the alternator supplies all the amperage , or flow needed voltage is maintained and the battery or lake stays full as demand increases and supply is unable to maintain all of the load the lake is drained.
Obviously a bigger lake will help a system with a small pump, although the pump will need to run a long time to keep up. Add a bigger pump to keep the lake full and you may need bigger pipes to make any difference in filling the lake.
Never underestimate the value of a good deep lake.
This lake has several ponds. Lets say six. One of these ponds just will not completely fill no matter how much you pump into it. This makes the pump heat and it is unable to maintain the depth for the whole lake. As a result the depth of the lake suffers as does the supply available to the whole system. Be sure your lake is as full as it should be and it will fill to the proper level. This all comes from a recent adventure with my charging system. I play with things way too much, probably. I was having some regulator problems, and alternator problems. Finally I got those resolved and the charging system beefed up to maintain voltage.
After reading an article on batteries I became aware that AGM batteries hold a slightly higher voltage. I started to suspect I may have a bad cell in mine. It would maintain reasonable voltage around 12.3-12.5 , but would dip to 11.8 sometimes. It would not go less than 11 during cranking and under a load.
I did not know that the battery should be 12.8-13.5 with a full charge and maintain that level pretty easily. Roughly .5 volts higher than I expected.
Once replaced the whole system must have sighed a huge sigh of relief.
The system now maintains closer to 14.7 volts , whereas prior to this it stayed closer to 14.2. I really didn't think that the battery would so greatly affect the charging voltage. Live and learn.
All the system parts need to be upgraded as demands are increased. Each plays a part and needs to be in good working order.
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UK4X4
Expedition Leader
"personally i'm not a fan of dual battery setups unless they're setup in series"
best in paralell 12 V twice the current.....
in series you end up with 24V......and blown ecu's
use the winch with the engine running, don't turn off the engine just after winching
any large capacity battery will do, more current larger batteries are best.
Upgrading to the largest capacity battery that fits your tray, will do for most things
best in paralell 12 V twice the current.....
in series you end up with 24V......and blown ecu's
use the winch with the engine running, don't turn off the engine just after winching
any large capacity battery will do, more current larger batteries are best.
Upgrading to the largest capacity battery that fits your tray, will do for most things
robert j. yates
Explorer
Odyssey PC1200 or PC1500's are pretty nice but I'm a little biased. I run 2 PC1200's in a dual battery set-up. No problems ever which I cannot say when I ran Optimas.
SAR_Squid79
Explorer
I have heard WAYYYYYY too many Optima horror stories.
I am also a BIG FAN of Odyssey batteries. I also run the PC1200MJT, I will be adding a 2nd PC1200 VERY SOON...
I am also a BIG FAN of Odyssey batteries. I also run the PC1200MJT, I will be adding a 2nd PC1200 VERY SOON...
RAM5500 CAMPERTHING
OG Portal Member #183
I wouldnt put an Optima in my worst enemies truck! They flat out suck! Sure, some people will argue that they have had them for years with no issues, etc.. I gave up on them after my 2nd one crapped out in over a year. Have had several friends with similar results.
I would either go with Odyssey of Lifeline
I ran Lifelines in my 80 and will be installing them in my 100 soon!
If ya got any doubts, Scotty B ran the lifelines on his artic expo with zero issues!! :victory:
I would either go with Odyssey of Lifeline
I ran Lifelines in my 80 and will be installing them in my 100 soon!
If ya got any doubts, Scotty B ran the lifelines on his artic expo with zero issues!! :victory:
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I have used Optima and Odyssey both with good results. One vehicle uses dual Optima batteries simply wired together, nothing fancy, and this arrangement has been working since 2001. In that time, only one battery has failed, a Red Top Optima, and it was on its third season of continuous use and had just made a 30 day sea voyage. Pretty sure something was still attached and draining that one battery during the trip (radio or interior light). That one I left in Australia. The replacement Optima, as well as the original Red Top that was the twin to the one that failed, are still in use and still working fine. Two Blue Tops replaced the Red Tops in late 2003, and have been in service since without issues. The Jeep now sits more than it gets used, but after sitting all winter in the yard, it started instantly the other day, and was showing 12.6V prior to startup.
I figure I have beaten these batteries severely, yet they still work just fine. In 2003, my co-driver and I winched our 5,300 pound Jeep for 30 minutes continuously up a 40 degree slope a quarter mile long because of a broken rear drive shaft so there was no drive line support, never saw the voltage drop below 12V, the batteries recovered more quickly than they discharged, and one of those batteries is now in my Ford PU where it has been since 2003, still working perfectly. I can't find anything wrong with Optima batteries. Why would one person's success with a particular brand be less persuasive than another person's failure? It has been my observation that there are some folks in this world that could break a steel wreaking ball. That would not be the ball's fault. Without knowing the details of the Optima battery failure it would not be fair to brand them all as junk.
My only issue with the Odyssey is the cost.
I figure I have beaten these batteries severely, yet they still work just fine. In 2003, my co-driver and I winched our 5,300 pound Jeep for 30 minutes continuously up a 40 degree slope a quarter mile long because of a broken rear drive shaft so there was no drive line support, never saw the voltage drop below 12V, the batteries recovered more quickly than they discharged, and one of those batteries is now in my Ford PU where it has been since 2003, still working perfectly. I can't find anything wrong with Optima batteries. Why would one person's success with a particular brand be less persuasive than another person's failure? It has been my observation that there are some folks in this world that could break a steel wreaking ball. That would not be the ball's fault. Without knowing the details of the Optima battery failure it would not be fair to brand them all as junk.
My only issue with the Odyssey is the cost.
RAM5500 CAMPERTHING
OG Portal Member #183
madizell said:
I will reply in short to prevent this from turning into a personal opinion argument.
As mentioned above (and by dozens of others over the years). Optimas have and have always had reliability issues. People that run Optimas have either had them for years and years trouble free and love them or have them less then 6 months, they crapped out and they replaced them with something else. They are hit or miss and there are DOZENS of reports on www.ih8mud.com to prove it, as well as 2 of my own personal bad experience.
Search around and see what you come up with, check on www.pirate4x4.com and www.ih8mud.com lots of folks all having the same issues.
Glad to hear yours work well, i wish you many years of life out of them.
For me, and several of my friends, the results werent as good, and IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, i am think they are highly over rated and unreliable, that is my opinion, based on actual experience, and that is that! :sombrero:
Thanks for listening but lets not get off topic!
My only issue with the Odysseys are the funky sizes and none of them fit nicely in trays!