Grenadier Pricing Announced

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Configuration is live now, and I see there’s an article on the home page of Expo about it already. However I have to say not withstanding Scott’s comparisons on US pricing in his article, my perspective is very different as a Canadian.

I built out two Grenadiers on the configuration tool. The minimum spec I would accept for my needs came out to $113k Canadian.

The spec I actually want comes out to an insane $136k Canadian.

In comparison, the New Defender that meets my minimum spec comes out to under $90k CDN. My compromise would be on confidence in the platforms reliability and field repairs, and a bit of payload. I can manage a LOT of field repairs for over $40k that I’d be saving. I can damn near charter a heavy lift chopper to help retrieve my broken defender from most of the world for that kind of money.

A Jeep Gladiator built to my minimum spec would come in at under $80k. My compromise would be dustproofness of the cargo area and a few hundred pounds of payload. I can fit a super premium nice tray and canopy for about $20k which takes care of compromise 1), and I can invest in expensive but lighter weight armour, winches, etc. which makes the second point less relevant, and still have a lot of cash left over for adventures.

The American prices seem more competitive, but it seems like Ineos doesn’t want to sell too many of these in Canada. I was likely already out due to some unforeseen personal expenses (lost a house and insurance didn’t cover it), but even if I was flush with cash, I’d be hard pressed to spend it at these prices. And anyone who’s followed my posts (and enjoyed bantering against my staunch defence of the Grenadier in our friendly debates!) will know that for me to say “oof, not at those prices” is really saying something and not a perspective I’ve arrived at lightly.

Anyone other Canadians still in at these prices?

 

[plh]

Repairs will be at crazy prices for the first few years. See that Rivian with the minor fender-bender that has spread across the internet at $30k repair bill. My BIL experienced something similar on his new Volvo a few years ago - first release year for the model, bumped a curb, broke a wheel and damaged / bent? some suspension parts. $17k damage. No sheet metal was effected. 6 months out of action waiting for parts. I saw the damage and was in shock that it cost that much.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

That’s the main compromise with the Gren - it checks all my boxes, but as a new model AND manufacturer, it doesn’t have the infrastructure to support it nor does it have the history where the issues will be known and strategies to manage those issues will be freely available in communities like this.

The compromise on the Jeep is that it’s a bit light, but you can fix them in any town in North America and most of the world. The compromise with the new Defender is the complexity of the design.

The question is how do individuals value, in dollars and cents, what those compromises mean. The Gren’s compromise is doable for me if it was within $5k to $10k of those other options. But being at least $20k, and as much as $42k more expensive than the other tools that do a similar job is making it hard for me to say the juice is worth the squeeze on that compromise.

 

[GetOutThere]

Also Canadian, and I have to agree. The Ineos pricing here is absolutely ridiculous, and is not competitive with the market in any way.

Land Rover Defender 110 S - $79k
Ford F350 Tremor XLT - $83k
Silverado 1500 ZR2 - $91k
Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk 4xe - $79k
Jeep Wagoneer - $88k

Comparing pricing to a G Wagon would be completely disingenuous, as I'm sure it is a fringe minority cross shopping those two vehicles.

What the Grenadier has going for it over *some* of these models is payload, durability, or a slight bump in off road capability. The dealer and service networks still have to be proven. The overall vehicle reliability and dependability still have to be proven. Every vehicle listed above has far more features than the Grenadier, a relatively known reliability standard, and a known dealer and service network.

Additionally, more and more vehicles are coming out on global platforms. You can take a next gen Ranger to South Africa or South America and find the same vehicles being serviced, and the new Tacoma will be built on Toyota's global platform (though parts availability and model parity worldwide remains to be seen). When you have people like Dan Grec going to some of the most remote places in the world in a Wrangler or a Gladiator, you really have to wonder how necessary a vehicle like the Grenadier is, even as a global platform.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Agreed, @GetOutThere.

But I’d argue that the Gren doesn’t necessarily represent more off road capability than the Jeep or Defender - I’d put them on equal footing from the perspective of “I’m at the bottom of the mountain and I wish to be at the top” — all three will get that job done within spitting distance of each other.

Payloads are a few hundred pounds difference at most. That’s significant, but with the savings a guy can invest in a crazy expensive Dakar-quality aluminum winch and armour and still come out ahead, which makes that few hundred pounds a bit moot.

I think you are right about the durability, but that is TBD. I think the structure is very solid, but there are legitimate questions about the power plant. So, jury is still out.

But that only strengthens your conclusion in my mind — the case for the Grenadier is compelling if a twin-locked one came in at prices close to the New Defender, which is by itself at the high end of the 4x4 market prices. Given they are tens of thousands more than that in Canada similarly equipped really makes it dramatically less compelling.

 

[plh]

How do you all feel about annual production volume? The "original" Defender peaked in 1997 with 39k units. Do you think Ineos will sell more? or less? IIRC in 2025MY they are thinking 30% will be BEV.

 

[Todd780]

Configuration is live now, and I see there’s an article on the home page of Expo about it already. However I have to say not withstanding Scott’s comparisons on US pricing in his article, my perspective is very different as a Canadian.

I built out two Grenadiers on the configuration tool. The minimum spec I would accept for my needs came out to $113k Canadian.

The spec I actually want comes out to an insane $136k Canadian.

In comparison, the New Defender that meets my minimum spec comes out to under $90k CDN. My compromise would be on confidence in the platforms reliability and field repairs, and a bit of payload. I can manage a LOT of field repairs for over $40k that I’d be saving. I can damn near charter a heavy lift chopper to help retrieve my broken defender from most of the world for that kind of money.

A Jeep Gladiator built to my minimum spec would come in at under $80k. My compromise would be dustproofness of the cargo area and a few hundred pounds of payload. I can fit a super premium nice tray and canopy for about $20k which takes care of compromise 1), and I can invest in expensive but lighter weight armour, winches, etc. which makes the second point less relevant, and still have a lot of cash left over for adventures.

The American prices seem more competitive, but it seems like Ineos doesn’t want to sell too many of these in Canada. I was likely already out due to some unforeseen personal expenses (lost a house and insurance didn’t cover it), but even if I was flush with cash, I’d be hard pressed to spend it at these prices. And anyone who’s followed my posts (and enjoyed bantering against my staunch defence of the Grenadier in our friendly debates!) will know that for me to say “oof, not at those prices” is really saying something and not a perspective I’ve arrived at lightly.

Anyone other Canadians still in at these prices?

Yeah, the Canadian pricing is nuts. You could probably buy a decent wrangler / bronco for that much... plus a 2nd wrangler / bronco as a backup vehicle for the same price as 1 Gren, lol.

Many, many, many things I'd spend 140K on before a Gren. Gren might be number 185,845,943 on the list.

Sorry to hear about the house. That sucks man. Sincerely.

Some good friends of ours in town here just lost their house a couple weeks ago due to a neighbors house catching fire.

 

[BuckinghamBuilt]

Hmm, I just read this and honestly its what I expected for pricing (I was thinking $70K starting price for a US spec baseline trim). Unfortunately this is market we live in but for that price (and I expect above MSRP for a bit) I see other options from a utility standpoint (full size truck, Land Cruiser 200 series).

I'll pass (for now).

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

How do you all feel about annual production volume? The "original" Defender peaked in 1997 with 39k units. Do you think Ineos will sell more? or less? IIRC in 2025MY they are thinking 30% will be BEV.

I think they'll have no trouble hitting their targets - there's a couple billion more people in the world since 1997, and a lot of 'em are rich. And they are right - there is a need for a robust 4x4; the Ineos is really the only "commercial grade" (according to the conversations about design - real world to be determined!) 4x4 wagon on the market with modern safety standards, so from that perspective they have a bit of a captive market for some industries.

For Jim Ratcliffe-style 4x4/travel enthusiasts who share his passion but are a few billion dollars short of his net worth -- folks like me who pay attention to the price of eggs and milk and bananas -- the pricing of this in Canada at least makes it a tough stretch when compared to what else is available. So, they'll hit their targets, but I don't expect to see many of them on the road in the hands of folks like me until the used market filters out a bit (and that's assuming that market goes back to "normal", where used cars don't cost the same as new ones!)

 

[plh]

I think they'll have no trouble hitting their targets - there's a couple billion more people in the world since 1997, and a lot of 'em are rich. And they are right - there is a need for a robust 4x4; the Ineos is really the only "commercial grade" (according to the conversations about design - real world to be determined!) 4x4 wagon on the market with modern safety standards, so from that perspective they have a bit of a captive market for some industries.

For Jim Ratcliffe-style 4x4/travel enthusiasts who share his passion but are a few billion dollars short of his net worth -- folks like me who pay attention to the price of eggs and milk and bananas -- the pricing of this in Canada at least makes it a tough stretch when compared to what else is available. So, they'll hit their targets, but I don't expect to see many of them on the road in the hands of folks like me until the used market filters out a bit (and that's assuming that market goes back to "normal", where used cars don't cost the same as new ones!)

indeed there are. IIRC the last few years of the original Defender sold sub 10k units a year.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Yeah, the Canadian pricing is nuts. You could probably buy a decent wrangler / bronco for that much... plus a 2nd wrangler / bronco as a backup vehicle for the same price as 1 Gren, lol.

Many, many, many things I'd spend 140K on before a Gren. Gren might be number 185,845,943 on the list.

Sorry to hear about the house. That sucks man. Sincerely.

Some good friends of ours in town here just lost their house a couple weeks ago due to a neighbors house catching fire.

Thanks Todd - honestly it's the best kind of bad luck to have. My family is happy and healthy, and the rest is just "stuff" and thankfully we didn't lose any of our important items - photos, keepsakes, and things of emotional value were all boxed up and in storage before it happened, so our loss was just on the structure/land. We'll bounce back, and our adventure attitude means this is all part of the story we end up telling 3 times a day to the other old farts in the retirement home when the time comes!

I am sorry to hear about your friends house too - hopefully they bounce back in good fashion also!

 

[Todd780]

Thanks Todd - honestly it's the best kind of bad luck to have. My family is happy and healthy, and the rest is just "stuff" and thankfully we didn't lose any of our important items - photos, keepsakes, and things of emotional value were all boxed up and in storage before it happened, so our loss was just on the structure/land. We'll bounce back, and our adventure attitude means this is all part of the story we end up telling 3 times a day to the other old farts in the retirement home when the time comes!

I am sorry to hear about your friends house too - hopefully they bounce back in good fashion also!

That's a great attitude to have.
Glad to hear all your important stuff made it out safe.
Still sucks to lose all your stuff though. So you have my condolences.

Friends are working on it. It was only a couple weeks ago.
But so far they are doing as best as can be expected.
Thankfully everyone including pets got out safe.

 

[Grassland]

That sucks to hear about the houses.
My experience with insurance, both on the claims side, and the afterwards construction/renovation side, is that most people aren't insured the way they think they are.

Built a stripped down Gren on the builder, hit $99,9XX in short order and closed the browser.

Even in today's massively inflated market, there are tons of other things to buy in that price range.
All the talk about recession and abundance of stuff I see in online news, wondering when it's going to happen here in Canada, because everything is still sky high and put of reach of middle class people. It's 40K for a compact crossover nowadays.

Heavy half 4x4 extended cab, 2000-2200# payload, volume trim, 65k, drop a bit of payload and bed length, make it a crew cab if u want more comfortable seating for passengers.
The new midsize trucks can be specced higher trim and come in for less. 7000# towing for most of those trucks.
For 100k I could build a fancy mid size, and still have a lot of money down on a full size for work and towing.

 

[carleton]

I got $87k on the builder for what was basically the TrailMaster w/ Leather heated seats and a safari rack.
The TrailMaster has a lot included....opted out of other stuff ($1200 for a light bar) because realistically I'd rather select those myself for less $$.

So, it doesn't seem too outlandish for what will be a rare luxury vehicle in the US.
I think folks are also paying for the privilege of having a stock vehicle come from the factory exactly how you would want it. (IE, BFGs, Safari Rack, Winch, Dorkel, etc)

 

[rruff]

The American prices seem more competitive, but it seems like Ineos doesn’t want to sell too many of these in Canada.

$1 is 1.346 Ca$ currently, so $71.5k is 96.2k Ca$... I'd say you are getting a deal at 92k Ca$. But maybe other manufacturers are giving you bigger discounts?