So this is an okay to excuse or give a pass to Hallmark? Lack of qualified technicians/trades workers so when an install goes wrong they are not at fault? Perhaps what you're saying on a more global and philosophical ideology is accurate and true, that's not the argument here. Looking at it in a vacuum, if the OP paid for Hallmark to install a sink and they did it wrong then I see no other resolution than for Hallmark to fix it or compensate the OP after he had to pay someone else to redo the job for him. If Hallmark wants to wash their hands of it then their reputation goes down with it. My point was that Hallmark should have made the OP right by making him whole. OP has every right to sound off in this situation. I guess you feel otherwise and that the OP should just suck it up...
Hallmark let me down
- Thread starter geodasher
- Start date
So this is an okay to excuse or give a pass to Hallmark? Lack of qualified technicians/trades workers so when an install goes wrong they are not at fault? Perhaps what you're saying on a more global and philosophical ideology is accurate and true, that's not the argument here. Looking at it in a vacuum, if the OP paid for Hallmark to install a sink and they did it wrong then I see no other resolution than for Hallmark to fix it or compensate the OP after he had to pay someone else to redo the job for him. If Hallmark wants to wash their hands of it then their reputation goes down with it. My point was that Hallmark should have made the OP right by making him whole. OP has every right to sound off in this situation. I guess you feel otherwise and that the OP should just suck it up...
billiebob
Well-known member
Of course he does.... but the solution is not to drive businesses into bankruptcy..... the solution is to FIX the problem and invest in EDUCATION.
I'm done here....
Regcabguy
Oil eater.
I retired from the school system in San Diego. Education without discipline and repercussions for rudeness and profanity from students is pointless. ere they are letting students take tests over and over until they pass. Everybody gets an honorable mention even if they lose. Failure prompts one to better themselves. The schools here are swimming in money. DC has one the highest per pupil monetary investment in America and the worst grades. Pouring money into education without transparency and accountability is fruitless.
billiebob
Well-known member
right on. make sure they earn that ribbon, finishing last is still last place. Pour the money into eduction and get parents get involved.... Follow the money and be responsible.... quit deferring responsibility..... education is a local community responsibility....
YOU ARE THE PROBLEM !!!! GET INVOLVED !!!!
grindmonkey
Member
Disclaimer: I own a Hallmark camper that I bought used. I have taken to Hallmark after purchase (it was a stop in) and the people working were more than happy to help me figure out the camper, even fixing a few thing the previous owner neglected. At no cost.
So just to get this straight.....
You drove 1000 miles to have some things fixed. One of them being the faucet. After they fixed you didnt check it or look at the repair. You didnt have them put water through the connections or pressure test the systems to ensure the connections didnt leak.
You didnt use water at all since the repair? Just this spring you realize it doesnt work. WHAT? Did you winterize the camper?
Not saying this didnt happen as you detailed it but I find it very odd that you failed to look over something as important as water system in such an accessible area. I also find it odd to the point of unbelievable that someone who replaces water lines would not pressurize the system to ensure it doesnt leak. Could be a newbie.....could be unskilled help.... maybe. Still I would like to think someone there pressure tested the system (if you had water in the camper) to ensure it didnt leak because the last thing they would want is water damage under the sink to come back to them.
Could they have covered the cost, yeah. Do they probably get a lot of people that have water issues in the spring due to poor winterization, heat/cool cycles, etc.... I am sure. I would not doubt they get quite a few folks wanting them to "cover costs" they believe that hallmark is liable for and they have to determine where they feel it is applicable for their business.
I havent heard their side of the story but with some of the gaps in your account I have a hard time believing they should have covered the 255.
geodasher
Observer
As I wrote in the original post Hallmark said they tested it and I trusted them. In any case I would not have had an easy time checking because the plumbing is hidden by the sink. Hallmark said that they had to remove the outside shower to access it.
We were not using the water system on this trip and when we got home I winterized it. In any case the installation failures I described (badly kinked hose, cross-threaded fitting, loose connector) were clearly their doing. And yet they denied responsibility.
geodasher
Observer
Similar experience for us. In the original build and orientation they left off several things that were ordered, added one thing we did not want (radio), installed the turnbuckles incorrectly (according to a TorkLift engineer), left out some key things in the walk-through, and overlooked a few design flaws that later caused grief. We also have the power lift which had a problem close to home and was fixed under warranty. All along I have been patient and understanding but have been put off by Hallmark’s arrogance. On this most recent trip when we waited while the repairs were being done, I discovered a little about how they treat employees. When I asked if they had a coffee or coke machine the owner said that was an unnecessary expense. Then he complained about how hard it is to get skilled workers.
Overall the camper has held up well under rough conditions. We have been to many beautiful backcountry places. However I’m done recommending Hallmark after this recent experience.
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grindmonkey
Member
Unless your hallmark is significantly different than mine I will have to agree to disagree with some of your of thought and reasoning.
I just replaced my water heater and repaired the previous owners "plumbing fixes". The sink lines are obscured by the sink and it definatly makes it easier to REPLACE without the water heater or outdoor shower installed; however, it is fairly easy to reach your hand through the cabinet and feel the hoses for water leaks. If you take the items out from under the sink you would also be able to see the water dripping (if the connections are that bad) pretty quickly.
When I winterize my camper I run RV antifreeze through the lines till they come out the fixture to ensure I dont get any broken lines throughout the camper. Not sure if you go this far but it is one of the primary ways to ensure there is no residual water in the lines. If one did this they would have identified a kinked hose as the RV antifreeze wouldn't have come out that line. Additionally, it is very easy to identify leaks with RV antifreeze.
So if the system passed all the winterizing or you didnt identify any leaks at that time I dont see how this is "clearly their doing". I again have a difficult time believing how Hallmark should cover the costs.
It seems like you have had some other issues with the company. Maybe this is yet another thing that has upset you.
As far as vending machines that is an odd item to get caught up on. Many of the people that I had seen while I was there were either looking at campers (fairly short stay) or were getting work done on their campers (longer stay). The folks getting the stuff done usually had their camper and had a stock of goods in their camper they could access, or prepared themselves accordingly. As a smaller shop I can see how they dont generally see a need for vending machines and identify it as an excess cost. Kinda strange to tie vending machine serving unhealthy items as a red flag for how they treat employees.
grindmonkey
Member
Maybe I am hardwired a little differently. If a plumber came to my house to fix my leaking sink I would open up the cabinet and verify that my sink wasnt leaking any more before I paid them for their work. That is a stationary house.
There is no way I would bless off on completed plumbing work to my camper without verifying myself that it didnt leak. So maybe that is why I have such a hard time with this storyline.
AbleGuy
Officious Intermeddler
Yeah, well as Kid Rock notes in his great song that’s too NSFW for this forum:
Years ago, we all thought it was a joke, see?
That every kid got a ********** trophy
But yo homie, here's the situation
A nation of ******** is our next generation
Every opinion has a millennial offended…
So the educational system tries to promote STEM programs to all, instead of encouraging more kids to go on to affordable trade schools and junior colleges to develop these needed tech skill sets, and also now pushes questionable programs like E-Gaming degrees. Some colleges even have E-Gamers set up as funded, recognized, organized “sports” teams! ?
Results are, we don’t have enough skilled workers to maintain our critical infrastructure like running the lathe machines needed to produce essential components crucial for producing/maintaining our country’s military weaponry. (but we’re concerned about RV repair problems lol!)
(yeah, yeah, I know I’m just being a cranky O.F… But for heaven’s sake, the skill sets of some people today are so pathetic that USA Today felt compelled recently to post as part of its series on how to do the most simple things in life correctly, an instructional video of how to change the tire on your car! So…)
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geodasher
Observer
Wow, a very long-winded trip into bending the truth. It is obvious that Hallmark made mistakes in the installation. Further, they claimed they tested it for leaks. Why are you blaming me for their crappy work and misinformation? This is about their integrity and customer care which was once a strength but no longer.
Further, I did not mention "vending machines." I was referring to a coffee maker and a small refrigerator with beverages. Everywhere I've worked has had these minor perks, and I would expect a professional shop in a remote location to have them for both employees and waiting customers--common courtesy. And, no, we didn't have access to the camper while they were working on it.
grindmonkey
Member
I will reply one last time as I see where this is going. I am not bending the truth. I dont know the truth of this situation, only your side. You stand to gain hallmark paying for your repair if they feel this negatively impacts their business. What do you have to lose..... nothing I can see. So I have to ask myself if there is any reason why hallmark would not cover the expense. What would be some reasons they would not cover it?
You seem to have had issues with Hallmark in the past and seem to not have full faith in their abilities (as demonstrated by your post about the tie downs and other issues). Yet in this instance you didnt double check. Hmmm.
They said they checked the sink. You must have had water in it at the time for them to check it. You were on a 1000 mile trip and just had the water fixed and didnt use it at all till you were done for the season. You took it and had no issues winterizing it and had no issues till this spring. Now this spring there are issues. Perhaps you can see how one could question the narrative you are giving. So no it is not "obvious" that they screwed the install. I am not saying they screwed it or not.
I am not blaming you for their work, whether correct or not, I am blaming you for just now checking it and jumping on here to complain when a reasonable person would have verified the repair. Especially if they have had reason to question the company they have doing the work. They installed a part you brought in (regardless of circumstance) which many companies refuse to do anymore so I would say that is a positive for customer service that many shops do not provide.
Now you said "coffee or coke machine". I know what a coffee maker is and will guess you interpret that as a coffee machine. But I think most people would not interpret a coke machine as "small refrigerator with beverages" but as a vending machine or a soda dispensing fountain (like soft drinks at fast food restaurants). Again maybe it is different lexicon from different areas.
geodasher
Observer
Please. Yes, I had issues with Hallmark in the past but worked with them. At the time I went there last year I could not find a local shop that would accept customers for many months. So I called Hallmark and they were happy to set up an appointment and install the sink (the exact same model on their original build) as well as other issues. We were traveling through freezing conditions--snow on the return trip--so used a dry camper with bottled water (which we always did for drinking water anyway). I explained why I didn't check their work at the time. Hallmark assured me it was go to go and I trusted them because I had a relationship with them since 2014. Seems reasonable to me given the circumstances. I just had no idea how much the pandemic had gutted their staff and honesty.
Good luck to Hallmark. Random people still come up and say, "nice camper, I'd like to get one like that some day." Now I tell them there are many choices and they may want to research other brands.
Sparse Gray Hackle
Geezer
IMO, All Terrain Campers (ATC) in Sacramento is on that list. ATC is a small builder, does custom work, and has rock solid customer support.
smlobx
Wanderer
When I was in the market for a truck camper I did a lot of research, visiting several factories.
I ended up ordering a Hallmark Everest in 2016 and we have traveled from VA to Prudoe Bay, Death Valley, Co, UT etc. In fact we are heading out next week for a 2 month trip to extreme Northern Atlantic Canada in it.
We had one minor issue that we stopped by their place on one of our trips to CO and they fixed it for free and helped me with another issue (non camper related) I was having.
The whole family is very hands on and probably know’s more than most people in the industry. I will buy from them again when I decide to get a new camper.
BTW…traveling 1000 miles to fix a faucet leak is crazy..
I ended up ordering a Hallmark Everest in 2016 and we have traveled from VA to Prudoe Bay, Death Valley, Co, UT etc. In fact we are heading out next week for a 2 month trip to extreme Northern Atlantic Canada in it.
We had one minor issue that we stopped by their place on one of our trips to CO and they fixed it for free and helped me with another issue (non camper related) I was having.
The whole family is very hands on and probably know’s more than most people in the industry. I will buy from them again when I decide to get a new camper.
BTW…traveling 1000 miles to fix a faucet leak is crazy..