HAM / Alaska / 2M & HF?

[Tennmogger]

Hi UCS308,

I took 2 meters and HF with me on an Alaska trip a few years ago, driving both directions. I used the HF but hardly used the 2m. Cell phone coverage was better than 2 meter coverage for emergency use! On the road, I found more CB activity than ham activity so a cheap CB with mag mount antenna could be handy. If you need it just stick it on the cab and find a gentle spot to shut the door on the cable..

The only significant use I got from 2m was using Echolink out of Fairbanks to link back to the states (by Internet) and talk to my daughter in Denver. That part was cool.

We also found open hotspots for internet activity in many places in towns.

Considering you have no license yet and therefore no operating experience, and need an antenna installer (and apparently don't have much time) I'd say forget ham radio for this trip.

Those of you who know me probably have dropped-jaws about now. Just trying to be practical.

Bob WB4ETT

 

[ucs308]

@Tennmogger Thanks for the advice and I think I am almost at the same conclusion.. But..

I went to the local HRO yesterday. Showed the guy my truck and we talked a little. He had the following suggestions.

1. CB Antenna on the rear bumper or mounted on the lip of the rear door, or on the rack I have.

2. Dualband 2m antenna (Commet SBB1NMO), mounted using an NMO mount, onto my roof rack. I have a space about 10" by 48" (width of the rack), free for mounting the antenna. He suggested putting a metal plate 48" wide and 10" deep and mounting the NMO mount to that (in the center) and then adding a small whip & rounding the corners of the piece of metal. *** Is this a good idea ***?

3. Skip HF for now, since a good spot to mount the HF won't be available until the fabricator is finished installing the bumper and even then I would need to spend some time grounding stuff. Somebody else here made a suggestion that I could just put up a simple HF antenna when we stop to camp and that could be a fun solution. Not sure how practical it really is.

So I have the wire, I have the antenna mounts. I have a simple CB radio. I'll find a sheet of metal tomorrow and mount that and run the wires. I was thinking of under the seat mounts, but have a few options provided I can find the right unit and mounting brackets and removable face.

 

[Tennmogger]

Oh Oh, HRO, you are hooked. There's no turning back now LOL.

Mounting the 2m antenna on a metal plate is a good engineering solution to get a ground plane. You got good advice. You could mount a CB antenna on another NMO mount on the same plate. I have a CB ant and 2m ant within 2 feet of each other on top of my truck and have no interaction problems. I just don't operate both at the same time (would be interesting to try....NOT. Imagine ham talk on the CB, or CB talk on ham radio, yech!). BTW, a metal roof rack makes a good ground plane for VHF even if it is not grounded to the vehicle.

Your consideration of HF only in camp is actually my preferred operating mode. I keep a G5RV antenna and LDG Z-11 Pro auto tuner for that purpose. Pulling the midpoint of the G5RV up into a tree as much as 15 feet will get you on the air. I don't work much HF while driving (preferring to sight-see). The all band rigs like the Yaesu FT-857D offer all the HF bands plus 2m and 70cm. One radio does it all. And, the face is remotable.

Here's another suggestion to get going fast with a radio(s) in the cab. You will read that it is absolutely necessary to run heavy wires straight to the battery, and fuse them both. Well, that is a lot of work and a major routing challenge. No doubt the vehicle wiring cannot provide high peak current but there is an alternative. I use a small battery in the cab, mounted next to the radio, and trickle charge it from the cig lighter or aux DC plug. That way the battery provides the immediate needs of the radio, including high amps on SSB peaks for HF, does not load the aux plug, yet the vehicle system will keep the small battery topped off. Then when you are in camp the small battery will give you a few hours of operating time. I use a home made 10AH NiMH stack, but a cheap sealed 7AH lead acid (SLA) battery ($25 bucks at a farm/auto/hardware/Walmart store) can be moved to the picnic bench at night.


Bob
WB4ETT

 

[ucs308]

Bob,

I can put a cb on an NMO mount? Can you recommend an antenna?. HRO said i couldn't do an NMO mount CB. I might have misunderstood something but i was recommended a Firestik.

Thanks,
Garry.

 

[abruzzi]

Bob,

I can put a cb on an NMO mount? Can you recommend an antenna?. HRO said i couldn't do an NMO mount CB. I might have misunderstood something but i was recommended a Firestik.

Thanks,
Garry.

CB antenna's seem to mostly use 3/8-24 threads, not NMO.

 

[Tennmogger]

Sure you can get a CB antenna to fit an NMO mount. Look at a good quality antenna company like a Larsen, model NMO 27. You can buy a spare whippy whip for the same base and coil and tune it to 10 meters, getting two bands for a few dollars more. Technician licensees can operate 10m 28.300 MHz to 28.500 MHz, SSB.

It's true that CB antennas traditionally used 3/8-24 threads, like on those big stainless whips, but there are options.

 

[tgreening]

Just use a good Larsen 1/2 wave dual band antenna and call it a day. It doesn't require a ground plane so you can skip all the plate. I'm assuming you don't plan on running gobs of power so I would adhere to the KISS principle in this case. Shoot, you could even run Larsens windshield mount antenna (270G I think?) and not have to worry about being on the roof at all. According to them the loss between that and the optimum center roof mount is minimal. I've ran them plenty over the years and saw no problem performance wise, at least not enough to entice me to worry about a roof mount.

 

[AlbanyTom]

So to the 1, 2, 3 options from the hro guy:

1 - I wouldn't put the cb antenna on the bumper. Lousy location, in my opinion, because of the proximity of the antenna to the side of the truck. But on top would be fine. I'd use either a base loaded whip or firestick/hamstick type. Just ground it to the rack, which presumably is grounded to the truck.

2 - 48x10 plate is overkill, I think. I have the factory rack on my xterra, and just put an NMO on the roof between the rack rails, and run a 1/4" wave 2m. If you do want to put a plate on top, that's fine, but more than 34" is overkill for 2m. 15 would probably work ok...I base that on using cookie sheets and overtuned trash cans as bases for mag mounts in emergency situations.

3 - Agree that I'd wait before mounting HF to the truck. Partly because 2m antenna mounting is pretty simple and also standardized. Nearly every commercial VHF high band antenna setup is a 1/4 wave NMO mount on the roof, because it's simple and effective and works well.

As far as some of the other questions:

Yep, you can put a CB antenna on an NMO. And they make adapters to let you mount a 3/8 antenna on NMO. But you might not want to do these things, if your NMO is on the roof of the truck, because a long fiberglass CB antenna, if it hits a tree/drive through/whatever, could bend up your roof. Where a 1/4 wave 2m antenna probably wouldn't hurt the roof, the antenna would break.

I used to run 2 different 5/8 larson antennas on the trunk of 2 different cars. They worked fine. Now I have a 1/4 wave 2m on the roof of my truck, and it's better in all respects. If you have a decent ground plane for the 2m, I believe a 1/4 wave antenna will work better most of the time than a 1/2 or 5/8 wave. This is from experience, from recommendation by an area radio tech, and way too much research. Plus the longer antennas cost more and break more easily. One thing that nearly all hams will agree on is that gain figures from manufacturers are meaningless...truly. And I like Diamond and I like Larson.

HF portable really is pretty easy. The G5RV will work fine, as one fellow wrote, or just a simple dipole for the band you want. If you don't have trees, you can use poles, string, and tent stakes. We use a portable 80m antenna that is a full sized dipole, 12' up, 3 poles, each are 4 3' sections of 1" EMT stuck together like tent poles w/ short sections of 1" 16 gauge tubing. Quick to put up, and packs into a bag the size of a folding camp chair. The wire is just 22 gauge hookup wire. Use mason line for guys, and plastic tent stakes for stakes. Whole thing costs less than $60, I think. There's lots and lots about portable HF on the Internet. Only really important thing is to tune the antenna, or have an antenna tuner, so that you can talk as well as listen.

 

[mm58]

As a side note, and maybe something the OP might want to look at doing for portable/emergency HF antenna options, is a dual band (80m-40m) NVIS system. I am about to homebrew my own for when I'm way out in the boonies with no cell or VHF/UHF coverage.

 

[ucs308]

The reason the metal plate was mentioned is because the platform rack that has my RTTent and the antenna is powder coated and aluminum.



Thank-you to everybody that responded to this thread. Thoughtful and very useful.

 

[AlbanyTom]

As a side note, and maybe something the OP might want to look at doing for portable/emergency HF antenna options, is a dual band (80m-40m) NVIS system. I am about to homebrew my own for when I'm way out in the boonies with no cell or VHF/UHF coverage.

That's actually exactly what we use the 80m antenna I described above as. I just didn't want to mention NVIS as extra confusion. Up in NY, and I would think Alaska, too, we've found that 40m just doesn't work reliably for NVIS. Latitude is too high, MUF too low. But for most of the US a 40/80 combo is better, you're right.

USC - glad to help! I'm here because of all the great stuff I found from everyone else here.

 

[binrat]

Just a quick comment on the popular bands used by a lot of truckers in the northern Alberta / BC. Its known as LADD 1 which 154.something VHF FM. If you get on logging roads during weekdays, it is handy to monitor the frequency. At times that frequency sounds like channel 19 in the US. Here is a link of the frequencies used. http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?aid=4691

 

[jeverich]

Just popping in; not that I have much authority on the subject... There's been some great advice given already.

2M for vehicle to vehicle - don't rely on it for getting out when you need it the most. As I've said in other threads, Discovery Channel and the Expedition Overland crew, et al. has done a wonderful job of convincing the masses that Alaska is like Mars.

It's not.

You'll be in cell coverage for most of your trip - and quite frankly, I'd rather use that for emergency communications versus trusting someone else to act as a relay/phone patch - of course, that's if anyone just happens to be monitoring the local repeater/146.520 Mhz.

Invest in a PLB like the one made by ACR. I've had mine for both trips to/from Alaska in the dead of winter... I keep one in my rig and one in my survival suit (fishing in Alaska). They're cheap insurance. If it's truly life or death - I'd sure as hell rather unfold a Mylar antenna and press a couple of buttons rather than mess with a radio. That being said, I've got both a singlebander 2M and a Yaesu 897 for when I feel like playing radioman.

I know the local repeater in Kodiak is often quiet for days at a time; and I'm sure that it's a similar situation for most of rural Alaska (that's covered by repeaters).

It sounds like you've done your research, and are well on your way to having a great trip. An HF rig could be a great thing to play around with once you get to camp; yet - as I said - I wouldn't rely on it as your sole means of rescue.

Good luck!