I'm in the marine industry, so all my connections are crimps. USCG requires it, as does NMEA. Yeah, I carry around a big, expensive crimper for just that reason. I originally came from an electronics background where I'd have laughed my ***** off at somebody suggesting a crimped connection was preferable to soldered, but there's quite a difference between the two industries. For starters, I regularly work with 4/0 cables in the marine world, typically fab'ed on board the boat I'm working on, whereas in the electronics world a 12-ga wire would have been HUGE.
Heavy gauge wire/cable Crimp or Solder for Offroad use?
- Thread starter Rezarf <><
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comptiger5000
Adventurer
For big cables, if you want to solder it and don't trust your crimping ability / equipment, the solution is to crimp it first, then fill with solder afterwards (if the crimp is good, it won't take much, if any solder, but it'll fill the voids in a mediocre crimp).
Airmapper
Inactive Member
When I was installing my winch I decided on 2/0 welding cable, and after much research, discussion, and asking for advice settled on a crimped connection, although what I did I could more accurately be called "pressed."
I seen photos online but I tried it myself on some scrap pieces, and the resulting pressed on lug is indeed a solid piece of copper when cut through the crimped section, it is cold fused, a solid piece. As far as energy transfer, and a secure hold through vibration and tension, I can't imagine any better connection. I mean it quite literally becomes part of the cable, it's not coming off.
Here is a photo of the tool like the one I use, I think mine might be the 16 ton version, I forget:
I seen photos online but I tried it myself on some scrap pieces, and the resulting pressed on lug is indeed a solid piece of copper when cut through the crimped section, it is cold fused, a solid piece. As far as energy transfer, and a secure hold through vibration and tension, I can't imagine any better connection. I mean it quite literally becomes part of the cable, it's not coming off.
Here is a photo of the tool like the one I use, I think mine might be the 16 ton version, I forget:
LeishaShannon
Adventurer
This isn't a great idea because the heat from soldering will cause expansion of the lug and affect the crimp... Just crimp it properly and be done with it.
4x4junkie
Explorer
Pretty funny then how it is I have to occasionally solder up a so-called "properly crimped connection" because it's developed some resistance, suddenly I never have trouble with it anymore... Whether it affects the crimp or not is quite irrelevant when the whole entire joint is fused (alloyed) into a solid mass (that also happens to be air & water-tight).
I'll say it again: Solder it, forget it.
I'll say it again: Solder it, forget it.
Joe917
Explorer
If it was crimped properly ( with a 360degree compression crimper) there would be no issue.
Probably the crimp was done with a hammer, v notch or the hit it with something pointy method. Pouring solder on it will work for a while but is not the way to go. Cutting the lug off and crimping properly followed by quality adhesive heat shrink is.
The thread is how to do it right not how to half *** it to work.
Quality crimpers are expensive so are good starter lugs and heat shrink, that is why it is rarely done.
Robert Bills
Explorer
My take on the crimp vs. solder debate:
I am going to take advantage of the tip in Post #13, take my cables and lugs to my local Interstate Battery dealer, and let them make up my cables.
By doing that I won't have to acquire more expensive tools that I will use almost never, and the only technique I will need to know is how to get my credit card out of my wallet. :ylsmoke:
I am going to take advantage of the tip in Post #13, take my cables and lugs to my local Interstate Battery dealer, and let them make up my cables.
By doing that I won't have to acquire more expensive tools that I will use almost never, and the only technique I will need to know is how to get my credit card out of my wallet. :ylsmoke:
4x4junkie
Explorer
Half *** it... That's funny.
So you're saying respected companies like Warn (on their winch power cables) and ARB and virtually every maker of molded connector products such as inline fuseholders, plugs on DC power cords, and other items pound on all their terminals with hammers & pointy objects?
Sorry, but they looked to be done with a proper crimp tool to me... I have ones that developed resistance in the crimp 20 years ago that I subsequently soldered that are still trouble-free today.
Perhaps a very specific set of requirements exist that if met, can lead to a reliable crimp (and indeed there are many crimped connections still on my rig I have not (yet) had trouble out of)... But without knowing exactly what those requirements are (and apparently many product OEMs not knowing what they are either), you saying a crimped connection is better is meaningless (apparently it goes beyond having an "expensive" tool).
Soldering has no special requirements beyond ensuring the wire itself is free of dirt/oil/tarnish (something I would assume is true when crimping also), and that you get the connection hot enough for the solder to flow freely, coating and bonding all of the wire strands to the connector. Nor does it require expensive tools, or lugs for that matter.
We can go on & on about this, but three decades of experience completely says otherwise.
Incidentally I just bought a well-respected brand of welder for my vehicle... Interesting is that all of the connections (small & large) within the unit have a crimp followed by solder. Seems there must have been a reason for them to go the extra step on this... ?
Rezarf <><
Explorer
Thanks for the lively discussions guys, this has been helpful... now I need to decide if I want to make/buy a proper crimping tool (if I go that route).
Joe917
Explorer
http://www.ftzind.com/store/main.aspx
No affiliation.
No affiliation.
paranoid56
Adventurer
4x4junkie, we get it, your soldered connection worked. i think what most people are saying is that its a proven fact that a properly crimped connection is better for most automotive applications. yes, solder works also, but solder does have its issues, i still solder stuff all the time but for large stuff i crimp them with a hydro crimper.
4x4junkie
Explorer
Can you provide something that breaks down in detail what exactly these "issues" are that you speak of with soldered connections then? Because so far the only one I've ever seen cited by the anti-solder folk here that seems to have any hint of credibility is one about solder "wicking" it's way up the strands of a cable causing it to become less flexible, however this only affects 1/8"-1/2" or so of the cable immediately above the connector, depending on it's gauge. I also think it would be exceptionally poor practice to leave a cable flopping around in such a way to where this would even become a factor, so what makes it an "issue"? Obviously I've never had a cable fail because of this...
These are the terminals that are on my winch (they seem like a proper terminal to me, not a piece of tubing squashed flat). I drilled a small hole into the end so that I could fill the connection with solder. I had the one up at the battery connection start smoking where the wire was crimped into the terminal. It was bad enough that I had to cut the terminal off and solder a new one on as the old one was too badly burnt for solder to take to it reliably.
I recall someone here made mention of a crimp tool that will put a crimp around the entire circumference of the terminal, which does not seem to be the type of tool that was used here... So maybe this was part of my issue? Why is it then that a major OEM such as Warn doesn't use this type of tool if it's so much better?
Looking at some of the smaller crimps I've had to follow up on with solder, most appear to be the type where the two ends of the split round barrel part of the connector are squished into a "B" shape down onto the wire strands... Are there better types of tools for this type of connection also? And if so, why are they not commonly used? (I had a connector of this type fail on the motor lead of the ARB harness going to my compressor, among others I've hopelessly lost count of, most recently (just over Memorial Day weekend) one of the crimped connections inside of a molded SAE-type connector I had used on the back of my solar panels completely lost it's connection, with no apparent separation of the wire from within the connector).
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Joe917
Explorer
4X4 Junkie, the cables on your winch have been crimped with a V notch tool. Totally unacceptable in the marine, aviation and apparently nuclear industries. Why does Warn do this? Money. They save a few cents a unit and if they don't fail under warranty they win. Henry ford had every piece of the model T checked constantly. Parts that did not fail ever were great right? wrong. Parts that were too good were down graded, reduced in size to save metal and money, more profit. Rolls Royce on the other hand went the opposite way, any failed parts were re-engineered for more dependability. Ford is now one of the automotive giants, Rolls Royce cars is a small specialty that has been sold and resold.
Rolls Royce also make Jet engines, in that industry where quality is vital they are the world's second largest.
Everything manufactured today by large corporations is analyzed for a cost, lifespan. Make it cheap and make a new shiny one to replace it fast, it pisses me off. There is quality out there but people won't pay for it if they don't understand the difference. Don't even start on batteries!
For all you want to know about marine grade wire terminations , tools and methods and cable connections read the following:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/wire_termination
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/battery_cables
Cheers.
Rolls Royce also make Jet engines, in that industry where quality is vital they are the world's second largest.
Everything manufactured today by large corporations is analyzed for a cost, lifespan. Make it cheap and make a new shiny one to replace it fast, it pisses me off. There is quality out there but people won't pay for it if they don't understand the difference. Don't even start on batteries!
For all you want to know about marine grade wire terminations , tools and methods and cable connections read the following:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/wire_termination
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/battery_cables
Cheers.
Crimps, done with the proper tool, followed by adhesive-lined heat shrink.
I bought the harbor freight hydraulic crimper to do my 2awg aux battery wiring, and it worked great. I did some very unscientific destructive testing of the connectiond (generic copper lugs) and I was happy with the results. I made a 6" cable, crimps on both ends. Used some chain repair links to connect the eyes to a tree and a chain hoist. The eyes ripped out of the lugs, and the crimps stayed put. I was impressed. My boss borrowed it to do the battery bank in his camper, and he was really impressed with it too.
I bought the harbor freight hydraulic crimper to do my 2awg aux battery wiring, and it worked great. I did some very unscientific destructive testing of the connectiond (generic copper lugs) and I was happy with the results. I made a 6" cable, crimps on both ends. Used some chain repair links to connect the eyes to a tree and a chain hoist. The eyes ripped out of the lugs, and the crimps stayed put. I was impressed. My boss borrowed it to do the battery bank in his camper, and he was really impressed with it too.