help me connect my dual batteries in my truck to my solar in my trailer

[Cult Hero]

I am in the process of adding solar to my camping set up. I currently have two AGM batteries in my K5 Blazer that are isolated and combined with a hell roaring isolator combiner. Everything runs off the primary battery leaving the secondary solely dedicated as an emergency battery.

The only real draw for my system when parked is the ARB fridge which I can leave running for about two days straight before it will kill the primary battery. When that happens I just need to flip a switch and I can start off the secondary.

I have a CUCV trailer that I have set up for camping and would like to have some solar panels I can bring along with me to keep the primary battery charged and run an inverter off. I just picked up a Kisae 1000w from Don Rowe and am conflicted about how to set up everything.

I do like to keep my truck pretty self sufficient so if I take it out without the trailer I could still have all the benefits of the solar, so a mobile / packable solution for the panels would be nice.
I have looked at the Goal Zero stuff but it just seems overpriced for what it is. I am considering an ammo can I can mount the inverter and the solar controller in that I can move around between the vehicle and the trailer as needed but just really don't have much planned beyond that.

I guess I am asking what are good affordable solutions for a monocrystaline solar panel, movable mounting solutions (one reason I like the goal zero) and any ideas on the best way to set this up so I am not running wires all over the truck and trailer.

I like this setup but not sure about the robustness or portability of the panels.

https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Watts...s=renology 100w solar&tag=viglink20599-20#Ask

This is the inverter I have

https://www.amazon.com/KISAE-Techno...qid=1468969332&sr=8-2&keywords=kisae+inverter

I also like the idea of these power meters wired inline.

https://www.amazon.com/Makerfire®-P...r=8-4&keywords=watt meter&tag=viglink20599-20

My isolator

http://www.hellroaring.com

and my truck and trailer

 

[1Louder]

If your dual battery setup automatically charges your primary battery first and then your 2nd battery once you primary battery has a sufficient charge all you need to do is hook the solar panel up to your primary battery. I have a Renogy 100 watt suitcase and it works well. As for switching the panels between the trailer and the truck I would just do that manually as required. In reasonable sun my trailer battery can be topped up in 1-2 hours and my vehicle in 2-3. I then just leave the solar panel on my FJ since that's where my fridge is to keep the battery topped up.

 

[Cult Hero]

I was thinking of using one of my old ammo cans and mounting a battery and my inverter in their along with a controller. I can also get another controller for the truck and wire that up so that I just connect there. That way I just have to move the ammo can. Something along the lines of this.

My only concern would be it getting too hot, but I guess I could drill some holes for the inverter fans.

 

[DiploStrat]

Bass Backwards

I am in the process of adding solar to my camping set up. I currently have two AGM batteries in my K5 Blazer that are isolated and combined with a hell roaring isolator combiner. Everything runs off the primary battery leaving the secondary solely dedicated as an emergency battery.

The only real draw for my system when parked is the ARB fridge which I can leave running for about two days straight before it will kill the primary battery. When that happens I just need to flip a switch and I can start off the secondary.

If you have described correctly what you are doing and if I have read it correctly, this is a TERRIBLE setup.

-- Assuming that your "primary" battery is your starter battery, it is probably not a deep cycle battery and is thus a poor choice for running a refrigerator.
-- Even a deep cycle battery should not be run down until you "kill the primary battery." You don't have to follow the 50% rule, but a 100% rule is a recipe for battery replacement.
-- Using your secondary battery solely as an "emergency" battery is a waste.

There are good reasons why the convention wisdom is to use a starter battery as your starter battery and a deep cycle battery, properly isolated during discharge, to carry all of your camper loads, like your refrigerator. FWIW, a refrigerator is a big draw as it draws 24 hours a day. Do the maths: 1A x 24 = 24Ah, 2A x 24 = 48Ah.

I remain skeptical of all diode based isolators, even with sense wires.

Free advice, YMMV, etc. but I would do it differently.

 

[Bear in NM]

First, looks like you all are having way too much fun when you camp ;^)

I just went through this process, building a portable control box, a big one, with multiple controllers. Did the dual battery in my Avalanche, and have added solar.

I am using the meter you have linked, and give it 5 stars, so far. I have my entire system set up with Anderson Power Pole connectors, and wired a pair on each side of the meter, so I can plug into any line in my system. Depending upon what you want to measure, it is pretty handy.

I also have goal zero stuff, namely a Sherpa 50, and 4 13 watt panels wired together. Yes, the GZ is spendy, especially when you realize you need a new cable of some variety, but they do make it simple to use. The downside to my portable panels all wired together is that it is a bit awkward to set up and manage. With the panels zip tied to each other by the side cords, it's a little like moving a slinky around. The only negative comment I have found about the smaller goal zero panels is that as they come with a host of connectors on the back of the panel for linking, usb, GZ inverters etc., the panel connectors may not be very waterproof. I went ahead and put a small amount of painters tape and black rtv cement on all of the connectors that I do not use. This seals them, but can be pulled off if I have too. Really only using the primary solar in/out connectors for chaining. Using this as my backup, very portable system, as it is only 52 watts.

I have one, 135 watt panel as my primary, and it is about the same size as one of the Renogy panels in your link. I'll be adding a second. This size really takes some thought to be considered portable. A second will take even more thought. On my first trip, the panel rode in the back seat, on its side, glass against the back of the front seats. Sort of worked, but made the back seat impossible for my big dog, and had to be picky about what gear I stuffed around it. I have since added a Yakima bar rack to my Avalanche bed panels, and made channels that clamp to the bars. Very easy, very fast, and the panel rides rigidly away from any other gear. The kicker here that my local solar company noted to me is that drilling additional holes in the aluminum frame for mounting, might void my warranty from the mfg. After running the panel for several days at home, and one long weekend to confirm it is working, I had no reservations on drilling the frame. Will need to do this to the second, as I intend to hinge them. Might be worth a question to renogy on that.

The large panel is reasonably easy to use, once you sort out transport. Can be leaned against my truck, or a tree. With dogs and kids running around, I would probably never lay it flat on the ground.The GZ panels are easier lay on my hood, as there is no metal to metal. With wind, I would really be nervous about a big panel on the hood, without some sort of backing, and bunjee cords. No doubt one of the suitcase style portable folding panels would be a much easier portable solution. The big panels are supposed to be bad weather and hail resistant, so probably not as fragile as a glass widow pane, but I would still give reasonable consideration to transport.

Craig

 

[AndrewP]

I ran a Hellroaring isolater/combiner for years. It's an excellent unit for what it is. But it's set up to do 1 thing and that's to always keep a reserve battery charged, even at the expense of your main battery. THat's a great system for say a military vehicle where it has to start even with a dead battery, but it's a poor choice for camping. It is much better to have a start/main battery, isolated with a relay from all of your "house" loads, like your fridge and camp lighting.

So to start with, I'd recommend pulling out the Hellroaring, and installing a decent voltage sensing relay (Blue Sea ACRs are the bomb). Run your house loads off the second isolated battery, so your house loads cannot draw down your main. Use a deep cycle battery for your house loads (for a 1 battery system a Marine/RV deep cycle will be fine). Attach your solar system to the house battery and be happy.

A word about inverters. They suck. Do everything you can not to have one, especially a cheap one that wastes power like you have an unlimited supply. Most things you will need to do in a camping set up can be done on 12 volts. An inverter will double your power use but waste half the power as heat.

And, diode based isolaters are a thing of the past. Avoid.

 

[Cult Hero]

ok, this is all great information. I do like the hell roaring as it does give me the failsafe comfort that my truck will start no matter where we are. I have always been skeptical of batteries as that is the one thing on the car that I can't fix. I can repair most anything that comes along, but a dead battery is tough to repair.

I am leaning towards the all in one unit with a "true" deep cycle battery. Putting them all in the ammo can would enable me to not only move the fridge out of the truck if I chose to but also run solar to whatever I wanted. Meaning, I could have the can with the battery, inverter, controller and hookups in the trailer connected to the solar and attach whatever other load I want directly to it.

I agree about cheap inverters. I chose a pure sine wave for that reason. While I agree that there is conversion loss, the clean signal especially for cameras and laptops is nice.

Yes, Diode isolators are a thing of the past. I come from the 4x4 world, where overbuilt is better, the hell roaring is now a diode less solid state isolator.

 

[Cult Hero]

If you have described correctly what you are doing and if I have read it correctly, this is a TERRIBLE setup.

-- Assuming that your "primary" battery is your starter battery, it is probably not a deep cycle battery and is thus a poor choice for running a refrigerator.
-- Even a deep cycle battery should not be run down until you "kill the primary battery." You don't have to follow the 50% rule, but a 100% rule is a recipe for battery replacement.
-- Using your secondary battery solely as an "emergency" battery is a waste.

There are good reasons why the convention wisdom is to use a starter battery as your starter battery and a deep cycle battery, properly isolated during discharge, to carry all of your camper loads, like your refrigerator. FWIW, a refrigerator is a big draw as it draws 24 hours a day. Do the maths: 1A x 24 = 24Ah, 2A x 24 = 48Ah.

I remain skeptical of all diode based isolators, even with sense wires.

Free advice, YMMV, etc. but I would do it differently.

I appreciate the feedback and have a couple of questions.

I have two AGM batteries in the truck. One Interstate AGM and one Diehard Platinum AGM (rebranded odyssey). How is an AGM different from a deep cycle?

Also the reason I chose the Hellroaring was that it was a solid state not a diode, and I don't think it has sense wires, but I could be mistaken. It was primarily chosen for keeping the batteries in the truck either combined or isolated and I love how it works.

 

[DiploStrat]

AGM, absorbed glass mat, is a way of making a lead acid battery that cannot spill. The other common method is often referred to as FLA, or flooded lead acid. This is the classic type of battery with caps that open.

Starter batteries are designed with lots of thin lead plates; they provide lots of amps for a short period of time, perfect for starting, but they can be damaged by long or deep discharges. The typical advertising point is CCA or cold cranking amps.

Deep cycle batteries, sometimes also referred to as golf cart or forklift batteries are designed with fewer, but thicker plates. They provide few amps but for a longer period of time and are less damaged by deeper discharges.

(Marine batteries are typically a hybrid between the two, but, as there are no real standards, a "marine" battery is anything the manufacturer wants it to be. Most have different, screw type terminals.)

Any type of battery, from starter to deep cycle can be made as either AGM or FLA. My 2013 Chevrolet, for example, as an AGM starter battery.

I would have to see the specs on the exact model of Hellroaring isolator that you have, but most appear, at first glance, to be diode based with a sense wire. (The sense wire boosts the voltage to compensate for the drop introduced by the diode.) Hellroaring's literature seems to support this as they advertise low voltage drop - but only at 5 amps. As dwh has pointed out, many times, voltage drop is only an issue at HIGH amp flows, which is, of course, what you want to speed the charge process. As a lead acid battery charges, the amp flow will always drop and thus voltage drop becomes a bit of a non-issue during the absorb stage. I am not an engineer, but methinks that all of their diagrams show a diode symbol in the circuit.

Chris Gibson unloads on diode based isolators here: http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/diodes.html

In addition, I don't like them because, in my installation, they would prevent my solar charger from maintaining my starter batteries. (CTEK gets around this with their D250S/SmartPass combo.)

N.B. Andrew and I tend to repeat each other. The difference is that I have never used a Hellroaring isolator.