HELP ME DECIDE!!! Newbie needs advice

[hove102]

Hey all,

I've been lurking on this forum for probably about a week now, and after ignoring my responsibilities and digesting a lot of info on here, I figured I'd go straight to the people and see what they thought. A little background: I'm from Southern California, though I'm currently studying abroad in Australia, and when I get back I'm looking to get into the 4WD scene and build a capable rig that will go a lot of places without sucking (too much) fuel or being uncomfortable for the day-to-day. Also, I've got a price cap of about $3K (tight budget, I know) to get a rig, and then once I get back to the States and start working, I'll start pouring money into whatever I end up with. I've seen a few rigs on here that have opened my eyes to other trucks that I wouldn't have thought about before, but that's made my decision that much harder! :Wow1:

Anyway, after mulling this over for about three months, doing a crapton of research, exploring other forums, looking at aftermarket availability, etc, this is the list I've kinda narrowed it down to:

1. ZJ Jeep Grand Cherokee
2. 2nd Gen Toyota 4Runner
3. 80-Series Toyota Land Cruiser
4. Gen 2/2.5 Mitsubishi Montero
5. Mitsbushi Montero Sport
6. R50 Nissan Pathfinder (and its Infiniti twin)

Now, I know these all have their problems, as well as their strong points, so I'm looking for peoples' honest opinions on which rigs are good for someone on a budget who's looking to get out into the wild and explore! My dad has had both Jeeps and Toyotas in the past, which is why those two are at the top of my list, but my cousin has an Xterra that he loves and I've read a few Montero builds and been genuinely impressed...so now I really can't decide. If money were no object, I'd go for an FJ/FZJ80, but they're few and far between in my price point. If I can find a good one, I might go for it, but if I can't, it's down to the other 5. So, from your guys' (and girls') experience, which do you think would suit me best and be a good platform to wheel with for a newbie like me?

(P.S. Yes, I do realise that the rigs down here in Oz are vastly cooler than the ones we get here, and I would ship one back if I could! So many rigs with solid axles and diesels...literally a LC on every corner! :bowdown: Fortunately, I have a giant stack of Aussie 4WD mags to give me my fix when I return to the States. )

 

[Martinjmpr]

Any reason the Jeep XJ isn't on your list? There are bajillion of them out there in your price range. Not the most sophisticated vehicle available (you're basically talking about a 1984 design that was used until 2001) but inexpensive and as reliable as anything else that's in that price range. Also a ton of aftermarket support. Solid front axle is a plus if you want to build it up.
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Another candidate might be a 2nd gen Trooper. Again, lots of them in that price range.
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I'm presuming that you understand that with the $3k cap, you're likely going to have to do some work on any 4x4 you get. To me that again favors the Jeep just because there is such a huge support network out there. Get a Montero or a Trooper and you'll find parts and accessories much harder to come by (and I speak from experience as I owned a 1990 Montero from 1992 - 99.)
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A 2nd gen 4runner could be nice if you find one with the 22r 4 cyl and 5 speed transmission. Not fast but stone-axe reliable. V6's are somewhat problematic and not well regarded (although FWIW I sure see a ton of them running around here in CO.)
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A "sleeper" candidate might be a 1st or 2nd Gen Ford Explorer. Throw out the "soccer mom suspension" and it's a pretty capable little vehicle. Dirt cheap on the market, too. Just a thought.

 

[AFBronco235]

Another vote for the Fords, but I'm biased.

Any F150 made between 1980 and 1997 with 4WD is a good candidate. Even with the TTB front suspension, its a tough rig. Parts are cheap and easy to fix. Plenty of cargo for gear too. Simple, reliable and cheap. If you find one with the I6 300 engine and you'll get pretty decent gas mileage too.

Bronco's of the same period are even better though, especially if you have buddies to bring along.

 

[hove102]

Any reason the Jeep XJ isn't on your list? There are bajillion of them out there in your price range. Not the most sophisticated vehicle available (you're basically talking about a 1984 design that was used until 2001) but inexpensive and as reliable as anything else that's in that price range. Also a ton of aftermarket support. Solid front axle is a plus if you want to build it up.
.
Another candidate might be a 2nd gen Trooper. Again, lots of them in that price range.
.
I'm presuming that you understand that with the $3k cap, you're likely going to have to do some work on any 4x4 you get. To me that again favors the Jeep just because there is such a huge support network out there. Get a Montero or a Trooper and you'll find parts and accessories much harder to come by (and I speak from experience as I owned a 1990 Montero from 1992 - 99.)
.
A 2nd gen 4runner could be nice if you find one with the 22r 4 cyl and 5 speed transmission. Not fast but stone-axe reliable. V6's are somewhat problematic and not well regarded (although FWIW I sure see a ton of them running around here in CO.)
.
A "sleeper" candidate might be a 1st or 2nd Gen Ford Explorer. Throw out the "soccer mom suspension" and it's a pretty capable little vehicle. Dirt cheap on the market, too. Just a thought.

Thanks for the help! As for the reasons the XJ isn't on my list, it basically came down to lack of availability (in Southern California), too high of a price, or way too beat down for me to consider. I've always wanted an XJ, and I know it'd be a base for a killer rig but when the only ones that crop up are $800 and unable to be driven home, it makes it really easy to look the $1700 ZJ with the same engine and basic suspension design, but just a bit bigger. Do you know anything about the Trooper parts support or enthusiast community? I was looking at Troopers for a while but I just couldn't find a good resource for how-to's and support. And good point about the Monteros...I hadn't considered that. I guess that would make it a bit difficult to work around my limited budget.

Another vote for the Fords, but I'm biased.

Any F150 made between 1980 and 1997 with 4WD is a good candidate. Even with the TTB front suspension, its a tough rig. Parts are cheap and easy to fix. Plenty of cargo for gear too. Simple, reliable and cheap. If you find one with the I6 300 engine and you'll get pretty decent gas mileage too.

Bronco's of the same period are even better though, especially if you have buddies to bring along.

I've thought about Broncos, but the one thing that holds me back is fuel mileage...judging by your name, I'm assuming you have a Bronco; what kind of mileage do you get? And is the TTB suspension as hard to keep aligned as everyone says? My uncle has a Bronco with the TTB, and that thing eats front tires because of the suspension. (However, I suspect that has more to do with the lack of care the owner gives his vehicle.)

 

[Martinjmpr]

I think you're going to have to be realistic about MPG. The only way to get anything close to 20 is to buy something with a 4 cyl and manual transmission. Most of the later model SUV's (1992 and later) are V6 or V8 only. An older 4runner with a 4 cyl/5 speed or a similar size/type vehicle (Nissan Pathfinder, Isuzu Rodeo, etc) can also get you close to 20mpg but consider that something that old is likely to need work. You can buy a lot of gas for the cost of repairing or rebuilding that wheezy old 4 cyl engine.
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A 3rd gen 4runner can get close to 20mpg but you're unlikely to find one for $3k unless you find one that has very high miles and/or is thrashed.
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If MPG is a critical factor you might have to bite the bullet and consider a 2wd. I regularly get 23 - 26 MPG on my little Mazda B2300 (aka Ford Ranger) Reg cab with a shell. 4 cyl, 5 speed. Not fast, not pretty but she's been stone axe reliable for over a year. You'd be surprised the places you can go with a 2wd with decent tires, especially in the desert.

 

[hove102]

I think you're going to have to be realistic about MPG. The only way to get anything close to 20 is to buy something with a 4 cyl and manual transmission. Most of the later model SUV's (1992 and later) are V6 or V8 only. An older 4runner with a 4 cyl/5 speed or a similar size/type vehicle (Nissan Pathfinder, Isuzu Rodeo, etc) can also get you close to 20mpg but consider that something that old is likely to need work. You can buy a lot of gas for the cost of repairing or rebuilding that wheezy old 4 cyl engine.
.
A 3rd gen 4runner can get close to 20mpg but you're unlikely to find one for $3k unless you find one that has very high miles and/or is thrashed.
.
If MPG is a critical factor you might have to bite the bullet and consider a 2wd. I regularly get 23 - 26 MPG on my little Mazda B2300 (aka Ford Ranger) Reg cab with a shell. 4 cyl, 5 speed. Not fast, not pretty but she's been stone axe reliable for over a year. You'd be surprised the places you can go with a 2wd with decent tires, especially in the desert.

Good points, Martinjmpr. I guess I should have quantified what I meant by decent; the Volvo 940 wagon I just sold got 17 around town and 19 on the highway, and that thing was a sled. Barely got out of its own way. Point being, I'm used to something that gets crappy mileage and is slower than molasses! Haha. I know that getting a 4WD rig means sacrificing a bit at the pump, so if I could get something that got low to mid-teens around town and high teens on the highway, I'd be satisfied with that. Realistically, I know that something with 31-33" tires and a mild lift isn't likely to get great mileage.

I am looking at Pathfinders and 4Runners though, as well as Troopers, but the manual gearbox ones are nearly impossible to find in SoCal.

 

[east_tn_81]

First gen explorer should be on your list. Cheap plentiful and tons of easy upgrades. They came pretty stout to begin with . Check it out I don't think you will be disappointed .

 

[AFBronco235]

I've thought about Broncos, but the one thing that holds me back is fuel mileage...judging by your name, I'm assuming you have a Bronco; what kind of mileage do you get? And is the TTB suspension as hard to keep aligned as everyone says? My uncle has a Bronco with the TTB, and that thing eats front tires because of the suspension. (However, I suspect that has more to do with the lack of care the owner gives his vehicle.)

Gas mileage is a bit of a killer. I get about 11 mpg city in mine and around 16 on the highway. The TTB is one of those things you either love or hate. But any decent mechanic can get it aligned with something as simple as a measuring tape. And by mechanic, I mean someone who actually looks at the system to see what's wrong and not just read from a computer program. What kind of wear is your uncle getting on his tires? That can tell you all you need to know to fix it.

If you want better mileage, you need to get one with a 6 cylinder. Only a few hp less than the 302 V8, but far better on gas and practically indestructible. Put and M5OD behind it and you'll be golden. Surprisingly, the F150's with the I6 getter better mileage than the Broncos with the same setup, simply because the F150 is lighter. The biggest fuel saver you have though is yourself. Just get rid of the lead foot for starters. Figure out how much you really need to drive. I spend about $2K a year on gas, assuming a $4/gal price. I drive it every day, but I don't drive it far and I don't floor it either. I do regular oil changes and I'm constantly checking it over for problems.

On the subject of 2WDs, they can go just about anyplace a 4WD can go, except for the most extreme terrains, like rock crawling and sand. You just have to know how to drive them and drive smart.

For what you're wanting, get an old F150 with an extended bed, put a cap on it and that's your base. No need for a RTT since you can just throw a pad and a sleeping bag in the back and sleep there.

You could also go with a 4WD Ranger if you can find one. Just as reliable as the F150, but much smaller, better mileage and you can still get a cap for the bed and sleep there.

 

[hove102]

AFB, that's the kind of mileage I'm expecting to get. My commute to school, if you can call it that, is something like 3 miles one way, and then my work is about another 3 miles from school. Barely enough to get warmed up. I just don't want to be filling up once a week, but most of these trucks have big enough tanks that I can make it two weeks without a fill up. Gas is cheap in CA, from what I hear from my family back home! You make a good point about the straight 6. I didn't know the Ford 300 was that tough, but I'll definitely keep my eyes open for any trucks with them. I need to stay away from V-8s anyway...otherwise my fuel bills will be giant because I'll get hooked on the noise!

The only reason I'm inclined to go with a Bronco (or something smaller) is because this is still my DD, and something too long will be hard to park down at the beach or in the narrow streets around my school. If I had an unlimited budget and I was building something I didn't have to DD, I'd definitely go with a pickup or something long-wheelbased...my dream is to build an mid 70s Ford F-250 into a a desert rig, and use the twin I-beams to get huge travel. Someday...

 

[crick]

Maybe I'm about to let my Portland, OR show, but if you are really concerned with a big gas bill due to low MPG then you should consider riding a bicycle to school and work. Based on door-to-door time, I bet you could ride a bike to school faster than you could drive it in a car. Plus you'd save a lot of wear and tear on your drivetrain by driving in 10 minutes, shutting it off, driving another 10 minutes, shutting it off,.....

Heck, you could even get a mountain bike and take your 4x4 out on the weekends to hunt for some sweet bike trails.

 

[bob91yj]

XJ and ZJ with a 4.0L and factory tire size will get close to 20 MPG if not flogged on the freeway (driven both, 87 XJ with 150K on it and a '95 ZJ with 120K on the clock).

To clarify a point, XJ?ZJ front suspensions are similar, nothing in common but the axle housing in the rear. ZJ's are links and coil springs, XJ's are leaf springs. Of the two, the ZJ will give improved ride quality, but the XJ is cheaper to modify/lift.

 

[AFBronco235]

That's a good point about the bike. Even though I had my pickup in college, I still rode my bike to class when I could. I only drove my truck to class twice and both times were during finals week when my schedule was crazy. There's a whole forum on here just for bikes. Check it out and see what you can learn. I don't know much about bikes these days, but I will say that its a great workout, especially when you go 3 miles, uphill both ways, with 50 lbs. of books and laptop on you. And yes, it really was uphill both ways. I had to ride through a river valley from my apartment to campus.

Not really sure it will save you on the wear and tear of whatever vehicle you pick, but it will save on gas money.

 

[hove102]

Maybe I'm about to let my Portland, OR show, but if you are really concerned with a big gas bill due to low MPG then you should consider riding a bicycle to school and work. Based on door-to-door time, I bet you could ride a bike to school faster than you could drive it in a car. Plus you'd save a lot of wear and tear on your drivetrain by driving in 10 minutes, shutting it off, driving another 10 minutes, shutting it off,.....

Heck, you could even get a mountain bike and take your 4x4 out on the weekends to hunt for some sweet bike trails.

It's not just a Portland thing, I love my bike! I've got a sweet old Peugeot that I ride all over the place. The problem is that I am a sweaty person, so it makes it hard to remain clean and fresh before I sit through class for 3 hours...plus my work doesn't have showers, so I wouldn't be able to clean up before I put my "business attire" on. Trust me, I'd ride my bike everywhere if it were more practical! There's no arguing with the shape it puts you in, and it's pretty inexpensive. AFB brought up that point!

XJ and ZJ with a 4.0L and factory tire size will get close to 20 MPG if not flogged on the freeway (driven both, 87 XJ with 150K on it and a '95 ZJ with 120K on the clock).

To clarify a point, XJ?ZJ front suspensions are similar, nothing in common but the axle housing in the rear. ZJ's are links and coil springs, XJ's are leaf springs. Of the two, the ZJ will give improved ride quality, but the XJ is cheaper to modify/lift.

Thanks for the help Bob! I didn't know that about the mileage. Do you have any experience with what 30s or 31s will do to mileage if you drive with a light foot? And thanks for clarifying my point...I guess I should have been more specific. I just meant that they have solid axles front and rear. To be honest, I'm leaning towards the ZJ because nothing beats 4-wheel coils when it comes to ride comfort, especially with a good set of shocks.

 

[BigSwede]

Do you know anything about the Trooper parts support or enthusiast community? I was looking at Troopers for a while but I just couldn't find a good resource for how-to's and support.

Apparently you didn't find the forums at Planetisuzoo.com

Troopers are one of the best bargains out there, and you can lift and fit 33s with very little effort. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[rlynch356]

i'd go with a toyota tacoma or 4runner
the 80 series LC is going to be on the high side of the LC high miles (read a LOT of miles) or completely crapped out at that price point
my 2 cents