Help wanted - Overland Camper Build Direction

[Zybane]

I have a dilemma of finding the right "trail capability" and comfort compromise that my fiancé would like to join me regularly. Obviously the largest factor would be trail size and height for branches.

I have a 23' F150 Raptor with 37" tires.. it's an amazing vehicle and so comfortable, but limited payload and I'm finding it's rather large for Colorado trails.

I've been looking back at Gladiators, but I don't know if there will be enough room for us, no matter what camper I would put on it. It's me, her (she's small 95lbs), a possible baby/car seat in the near future, and four German Shepherds who currently ride in the bed of the Raptor with a bed mat and an RSI Smart cap. They really like it.

The obvious choice is some sort of soft-sided pop up camper, sleep two (plus possible baby) up top and the dogs below. But once you take into account just the weight of living beings being like 600 lbs, then add in all the supplies and a camper, not sure if it's doab-able.

Ideally I'd like a rig that could do the Rubicon trail, or Black Bear Pass, or Lake Como/Mount Blanca trail (since that's local to me), but I'm just not sure if such a build is possible with my requirements.

The other option would be to keep the Raptor and put a front locker in, and a light Scout or pop-up with some air bags. Or maybe a Power Wagon or AT4X, but I know those also have limited payload.

Another option would be to look into trailers, but it seems like having an off-road trailer with something like a Gladiator would limit you just as much as a Full-size pickup camper would.

She also thinks I should look into the Cybertruck dual motor, which surprisingly has front and rear locking differentials, 35" tires, 17" ground clearance and 2,500lb payload. Of course range could be an issue, but EV's actually get good range driving slow. It's high speed air resistance driving that kills them.

So I've budgeted around $150K for my build, but don't know what route to take as everything is a compromise. What have you guys found to be the best trail capability/living/comfort compromise?

 

[fourfa]

Replying here instead of your post on the gladiator forum...

Black Bear Pass is only rated 4-6 in Jeep's BOH system, less than Engineer Pass (5-6) which was trivial in my JTRD + Alu-Cab. (Black Bear was still snowed in on my only CO wheeling trip so far.) 4-6 is basically mostly a graded dirt road with steep parts (unless something awful has happened with weather). Pretty much any stock high-clearance 4x4 can do these; I wouldn't use these to gate your build - too easy.

Don't know Lake Como or Mount Blanca. I've had no trouble at all with Big Bear CA trails rated 6-9 with my heavy build on 37s, 3.5" lift, some extra armor and sliders. The 9 bits are steep, long fields of large boulders with frame and axle contact all over the place. I've seen plenty of people doing the Rubicon (1-10) with built midsize trucks and GFC campers - many of the 9-10 bits are also long boulder fields. I'd say this is definitely possible with the right build choices.

(Fullsize trucks, Raptors etc is outside of my experience so I'll leave it alone)

Trailers seem to work for some people, for sure. And I'm sure someone somewhere has dragged one through every trail imaginable. But I sure like the simplicity of being able to, you know, back up whenever you feel like, or get out of a bad line. Trailer seems like it would just double or triple the complexity of hard driving, without a double or triple payoff in build and camping simplicity. I get that it makes much more sense for a short wheelbase trail rig, where you can drop it at a campsite without compromising any hardcore ability on the vehicle, and do day trips where you return to the site. But that kinda eliminates the possibility of multi-day or multi-week point to point thru trails, which are the most interesting of all to me...

Four GSDs is a lot. My setup is me and the lady and two 60-70lbs dogs who ride in the back seat, and sleep up in the ACCC with us. The enclosed ACCC downstairs would be a no-go for dogs - quickly gets extremely hot in the fully enclosed space (100+ in just mild fall weather!), no ventilation or light at all as delivered. We eliminated a rack + RTT as impossible, as getting dogs up and down the ladder would be a big ordeal compared to the internal entry of something like ACCC or GFC. My dogs jump up from the ground to the fridge to the bed all by themselves, and are working on getting down by themseves. But with four GSDs they're probably not getting up with you. So why not a RTT and ladder? Then you can really optimize for weight, as you're spoiled for choices in RTTs and different full and half-height rack designs. And kennel the dogs in the semi-open space while driving?

I am definitely curious to see real Cybertruck and Rivian overlanding buildouts. Won't be me, but I'm certain that people will succeed at this soon. I did find some people who are charging Tesla SUVs from portable gasoline generators while camping to the tune of ~15 mpg. Which TBH is not that different than loaded up, heavily modified gasoline Gladiators... The downside of listening to a generator all night long on every single trip would be intolerable for me, but people vary.

 

[robgendreau]

You are going to need to set some priorities. Even more so when and if the child comes.

If the priority is get over tough trails, then no camper. Use tents. And maybe a smaller vehicle, although you've already got a large crew.

If the priority is comfortable camping, maybe a bigger HD truck and camper. And give up trails with tight turns that might be impossible (IIRC Black Bear eg was tough for big trucks to turn on). It's not like there aren't tons of trails that are perfectly enjoyable in a bigger vehicle.

Or keep using your rig and tow a decent trailer, not necessarily a "offroad" one. You pull into a spot like in Silverton, stay a few days, and day trip all the trails out of there rather than haul a camper up and over.

Or go full on 4x4. Bigger RV, tow a serious 4x4 machine. We did a lot of that towing all sorts of stuff for offroading, from dirt bikes to side by sides to non street legal rigs.

The EVs? not sure they're there yet. Not for frequent long camping trips. And stay tuned; Ram has a series hybrid coming out (basically an EV with a generator on board; the gennie, a 3.6L, never itself powers the wheels). 600+ range if you factor in a full fuel tank. And you can leave it to just idle in generator mode and charge itself.

 

[simple]

What are the comfort needs vs wants?

 

[trabs00]

@Zybane
Some good advice from folks already in this thread but I thought I would add my experience.

Sorry this is long, but I thought I would share my experience and it turned into a rambling essay.

This process is a lot to think about and can be very overwhelming when trying to do the "perfect build" and analysis paralysis is definitely easy to get lost in.

A lot will depend on what you really are going to do and enjoy most... are you looking mostly for long weekend trips that focus on driving truck on challenging trails. Or are you looking to take weeks long trips across many areas of the U.S. with different activities along the way.

This will need to be collaborative process with your SO and as @simple brings up. accessing needs vs. wants are the only way to start making any progress.

My example.
I have a 2012 Toyota Tundra Crewmax. 100k miles, and for me I expect to get at least another 200k with the way I maintain it, and all of the new parts I continually am upgrading. Mine is lifted with 37s and a full RR King 3.0s front and rear with custom leaf pack to match the weight of my truck... which is at max payload.
I sometimes flirt with the idea of a different truck, but keep coming back to I have spent so much time and $ on my labor of love that I really see it lasting us another 10 years.

for ~7 years I went with a regular truck canopy with Decked drawers and a hard shell RTT. My 2 dogs at the time road in the bed of the truck (where they slept at night too).

What was important for her initially:
She's fine using nature as a loo, so that helps.
Hot shower every 2-3 days (weather, activity depending). She is fine with outside with a portable hot water on demand shower and a small, cheap pop up privy, if it's not warm enough outside.

We also figured out, that 7-9 days is about all she really wants to do for our road trips.
I like longer trips, so for us when I want to do a longer trip (2-3 weeks) I will either drop her off at an airport mid trip or after I have been out solo for a while. She gets a shorter trip, saves some PTO for a girls trip somewhere, and I get to go and do more challenging wheeling, scarier and more challenging slot canyons, hiking trails than she is generally up for.

The last few years with Covid put more people out on trails, dispersed camping etc. I have started going to my favorite spots later in the year and experiencing much colder temperatures. My RTT in 8 degree weather was getting old for me, and my wife just stopped going with me.

What to do now?

Re-assess needs vs wants with the wife, enter a few new things.

Wife:
Need heat if we are going to be places in colder weather
Need to be able to stand up to change clothes, clean up
Need to have a place inside (other than sitting inside truck cab) to sit and have a meal, drink, while waiting out ************ weather.

Me:
Need to maintain roughly the same level of off road capability.
Need heat; 8 degrees in a RTT is something that I really have grown tired of.
Want a setup that is not too comfortable inside that I end up hanging out inside a lot of the time, when for me it is really about being outside that is a big reason I take these trips.
Really want to keep my truck.

I do like to wheel quite a bit and accept that with my truck, there are places that with my width and turning radius will be difficult . I am pretty experienced and keep an axes, shovel, hi lift etc. and often do a lot of trail / road clearing, as well as have a lot of pinstriping, have replaced side mirrors several times. I end up getting out a lot and jogging ahead to scope out the terrain,keeping an eye out for places to turn around if needed, making sure if I go up / down some challenge I can go back make it back if I need to turn around. Having a front camera angled down a bit helps with seeing obstacles and when you can't see over the hood. I am always of the "just a little further" attitude, but I have had to learn to say no mas when it has turned into a place only heavily offroad rigs should be.

My latest (and evolving) setup I decided on is a canopy topper from Hiatus (hard sided pop up). I ran into some difficulty early on (they installed a fan incorrectly and I had a water leak). They fixed it, I'm moving forward.

Mine is a complete barin interior moment and I am planning, starting to put together a relatively simple interior build that will try to address both our needs and as many wants as possible. Doing some myself, hiring an experienced van builder to help with some other stuff.

We have no kids, one 60lb Belgian Malinois. He now rides in the cab with a rear seat delete and platform.
I think this is going to work for us. It will be a work in progress over the next ~9 months as I fine-tune things during / after some shorter solo trips

My setup would not work for us if we had a kid(s) and 4 large dogs. There simply wouldn't be enough room to put everything and have a comfortable, safe place for them with a 5'7" bed.

But who knows, next month I might just go buy a built out Unimog or Earthroamer!

 

[Zybane]

Thanks for all the replies. Ya, I'm in a difficult spot having four dogs, a child and a wife. I think I will scratch off the off road trailer as that has a lot of negatives and you are basically always off working in the weather. Plus it's going to limit off-road capability enough that it will basically nullify having a real built up/capable tow vehicle.

And I don't like the idea of having a trailer I have to always "come back to". Weather that's risking leaving it somewhere in the wilderness and getting stolen, or going to over-crowded and expensive RV parks. I like to go to a remote destination, camp and then move on and not back-track.

Some of our requirements: Room to stand up, small shower capability (even if it's a put-up/tear-down setup. A dry flush toilet. A mattress at least full size and 4" thick. I think with the four GSD's, I'm limited to sleeping "above" them. I'd prefer a hard sized pop up like the Anti-Shanty or Hiatus camper, but haven't completely ruled out a winterized dual layer canvas.

I mentioned Black Bear pass, as not to it's difficulty but it's size limiting factor. There is one switch-back up the top that I don't think anything longer than a full-size truck would be able to do comfortably without a ten point turn. Blanca peak is rated an 8, and the Jaws obstacles aren't nothing to sneeze at. I just don't think anything that could do Blanca peak would meet my size requirements. I think a full size truck is my minimum size, any midsize like a Gladiator or ZR2 isn't going to cut it.

I'm also contemplating just getting a 19' Sprinter AWD like a Revel, Terrain or Launch with like 10 kWh of battery to run the A/C heat during the night. This gives us two comfortable front seats, two small seats for child/extra passenger, a shower, small kitchen, a large bed for the dogs to travel on. Of course, even if I put the aftermarket rear diff locker in and two speed transfer case, locations I can do to are going to be really limited. Those Sprinter vans can only fit tiny tires too.

And of course you will be driving around with a small 188hp diesel that doesn't have the tech of a modern truck.

 

[simple]

This is a tangent but I might consider scaling back and putting a small slide in camper on the Ford or pulling a trailer to take the fam to fire road turnouts, family camp spots etc. Pulling a trailer would still allow for the dogs to continue riding in the back of the truck. Sounds like your not quite there and are future planning.

Side note:
Most parents coordinate adventures with other families because having other kids to play with frees the parents up for a bit to take in the surroundings, drink a beer etc. More of a factor starting around 3yrs old.

If you like running trails then a second dedicated trail rig is the only way to fly. Run trails with your dogs and buddies and leave the family at home to do less rigorous things.

 

[trabs00]

Thanks for all the replies. Ya, I'm in a difficult spot having four dogs, a child and a wife. I think I will scratch off the off road trailer as that has a lot of negatives and you are basically always off working in the weather. Plus it's going to limit off-road capability enough that it will basically nullify having a real built up/capable tow vehicle.

And I don't like the idea of having a trailer I have to always "come back to". Weather that's risking leaving it somewhere in the wilderness and getting stolen, or going to over-crowded and expensive RV parks. I like to go to a remote destination, camp and then move on and not back-track.

Some of our requirements: Room to stand up, small shower capability (even if it's a put-up/tear-down setup. A dry flush toilet. A mattress at least full size and 4" thick. I think with the four GSD's, I'm limited to sleeping "above" them. I'd prefer a hard sized pop up like the Anti-Shanty or Hiatus camper, but haven't completely ruled out a winterized dual layer canvas.

I mentioned Black Bear pass, as not to it's difficulty but it's size limiting factor. There is one switch-back up the top that I don't think anything longer than a full-size truck would be able to do comfortably without a ten point turn. Blanca peak is rated an 8, and the Jaws obstacles aren't nothing to sneeze at. I just don't think anything that could do Blanca peak would meet my size requirements. I think a full size truck is my minimum size, any midsize like a Gladiator or ZR2 isn't going to cut it.

I'm also contemplating just getting a 19' Sprinter AWD like a Revel, Terrain or Launch with like 10 kWh of battery to run the A/C heat during the night. This gives us two comfortable front seats, two small seats for child/extra passenger, a shower, small kitchen, a large bed for the dogs to travel on. Of course, even if I put the aftermarket rear diff locker in and two speed transfer case, locations I can do to are going to be really limited. Those Sprinter vans can only fit tiny tires too.

And of course you will be driving around with a small 188hp diesel that doesn't have the tech of a modern truck.

It would be cool if Ford still made the E-250 or E-350 van platform with something like the 7.3L Godzilla gas guzzler engine. That with a 4x4 conversion and sportsmobile type of interior would check a lot of the boxes you have.

Sprinter AWDs have their purpose, and limitations. Sand is a killer for Sprinters with the tiny pizza cutter tires. Three years ago we met up in Utah with friends who rented an AWD sprinter they drove from CA. I had to winch / tow them out of sand probably 5x one day... I adjusted the roads we went on after that, it was my bad for overestimating the sprinter platform.
I have since pulled out several other sprinters stuck in the sand, mostly due to driver error in those cases, like not paying attention to warning signs like "caution, Deep Sand!" and not taking into account poor weather conditions.

 

[simple]

It would be cool if Ford still made the E-250 or E-350 van platform with something like the 7.3L Godzilla gas guzzler engine. That with a 4x4 conversion and sportsmobile type of interior would check a lot of the boxes you have.

Sprinter AWDs have their purpose, and limitations. Sand is a killer for Sprinters with the tiny pizza cutter tires. Three years ago we met up in Utah with friends who rented an AWD sprinter they drove from CA. I had to winch / tow them out of sand probably 5x one day... I adjusted the roads we went on after that, it was my bad for overestimating the sprinter platform.
I have since pulled out several other sprinters stuck in the sand, mostly due to driver error in those cases, like not paying attention to warning signs like "caution, Deep Sand!" and not taking into account poor weather conditions.

Have you seen these over in the van forum?

 

[Zybane]

Also looking into an E series van RV with U-joint off-road conversion. My worry though is basically any RV isn't put together well enough for any type of off-roading, even with a big soft lifted suspension.

This one has caught my eye since it's fiberglass shell.

New 2024 Coach House Platinum 220 Motor Home Class B+ - Starting at $218,855

Call for details.

www.coachhouserv.com

Another option would be to get a Rossmonster Sprinter 3500 EXT 4x4 with rear locker with large lithium and 12v A/C for slight off-road comfort and space and tow behind a built JK or JL Unlimited for day trips to really do the hard trails. This would allow me to stay out of RV parks and use the Jeep for difficult trails.

But still I run into the issue of returning to the van and being more limited to out and back trips and then having a $250K van sitting by itself in remote locations.

 

[Zybane]

Some more thoughts since my wife said we are still young, might as well do the hard-core off-roading now while we are still young and get the comfort later in life.

I'm considering getting a 2024 Rubicon X and going with portal axles, 40" tires and a Hiatus hard-side camper. I'd like to be able to do 8 rated trails with it and camp in some serious remote spots and would like to get your guys thoughts. I will be doing all the work myself and have $150K for the build. Some initial estimates:

Gladiator: $72K
74 Weld Portals: $20K
Skid plates: $2K
Second Fuel tank: $3K
Winch: $2K
Bead lock Wheels and Tires: $6K
Parking Brake: $1K
Rear tire carrier bumper: $3K
Hiatus Hard-shell popup camper: $20K
Lithium Batteries: $5K
Inverter: $1K
12v Air conditioner: $3K
AEV Overland Suspension: $3K
Steering: $2K
Solar: $1K
Air pump system: $1K
Rock rails: $2K
Window tint: $1K

With the beefier Gladiator axles and 22% gear reduction portals, you guys feel trussing would be enough to get axle reliability?

What items am I missing or would you get to make such a build more reliable?

I understand the 2025 Gladiator may come with a 4xE edition. That would make the electrical packaging better but I'd also likely lose the second fuel tank possibility of the 3.6L. Long range fuel is important to me.

Other concerns: dog on the highway, loud, top heavy, center of gravity high for off road... etc.

 

[simple]

I'm not sure what an 8 rated trail is. What your describing sounds like an awesome build.

A couple thoughts.
I spent a lot of time wheeling and it's more fun in something that you're not going to be bummed if it gets messed up.
It's also more fun when your rig is closely matched with whomever else you might be out with.

After having a lot of fun with production bodied builds I eventually moved on to this thing around 06-07.

 

[Spencer for Hire]

Some more thoughts since my wife said we are still young, might as well do the hard-core off-roading now while we are still young and get the comfort later in life.

I'm considering getting a 2024 Rubicon X and going with portal axles, 40" tires and a Hiatus hard-side camper. I'd like to be able to do 8 rated trails with it and camp in some serious remote spots and would like to get your guys thoughts. I will be doing all the work myself and have $150K for the build. Some initial estimates:

Gladiator: $72K
74 Weld Portals: $20K
Skid plates: $2K
Second Fuel tank: $3K
Winch: $2K
Bead lock Wheels and Tires: $6K
Parking Brake: $1K
Rear tire carrier bumper: $3K
Hiatus Hard-shell popup camper: $20K
Lithium Batteries: $5K
Inverter: $1K
12v Air conditioner: $3K
AEV Overland Suspension: $3K
Steering: $2K
Solar: $1K
Air pump system: $1K
Rock rails: $2K
Window tint: $1K

With the beefier Gladiator axles and 22% gear reduction portals, you guys feel trussing would be enough to get axle reliability?

What items am I missing or would you get to make such a build more reliable?

I understand the 2025 Gladiator may come with a 4xE edition. That would make the electrical packaging better but I'd also likely lose the second fuel tank possibility of the 3.6L. Long range fuel is important to me.

Other concerns: dog on the highway, loud, top heavy, center of gravity high for off road... etc.

Can an air conditioner go on the Hiatus? I didn't think the design would accommodate one.

 

[fourfa]

I assume something like the EcoFlow Wave? Not a traditional RV roof unit

 

[trabs00]

Some more thoughts since my wife said we are still young, might as well do the hard-core off-roading now while we are still young and get the comfort later in life.

I'm considering getting a 2024 Rubicon X and going with portal axles, 40" tires and a Hiatus hard-side camper. I'd like to be able to do 8 rated trails with it and camp in some serious remote spots and would like to get your guys thoughts. I will be doing all the work myself and have $150K for the build. Some initial estimates:

Gladiator: $72K
74 Weld Portals: $20K
Skid plates: $2K
Second Fuel tank: $3K
Winch: $2K
Bead lock Wheels and Tires: $6K
Parking Brake: $1K
Rear tire carrier bumper: $3K
Hiatus Hard-shell popup camper: $20K
Lithium Batteries: $5K
Inverter: $1K
12v Air conditioner: $3K
AEV Overland Suspension: $3K
Steering: $2K
Solar: $1K
Air pump system: $1K
Rock rails: $2K
Window tint: $1K

With the beefier Gladiator axles and 22% gear reduction portals, you guys feel trussing would be enough to get axle reliability?

What items am I missing or would you get to make such a build more reliable?

I understand the 2025 Gladiator may come with a 4xE edition. That would make the electrical packaging better but I'd also likely lose the second fuel tank possibility of the 3.6L. Long range fuel is important to me.

Other concerns: dog on the highway, loud, top heavy, center of gravity high for off road... etc.

you mentioned in your first post "Obviously the largest factor would be trail size and height for branches."

Do you really need 40s on your jeep to do the trails you want to do Obviously this makes the jeep much taller. This and a popup, if you have an AC on the top aren't are going to be pretty tall, with a very expensive AC unit (if able to be installed) as your highest point.
Hiatus does do custom work, but the amount of weight you can have in your roof and still pop I think is pretty limited. Also, based on the folding geometry they told me that fans can only be installed in certain locations.

My 2 cents, if you buy a new vehicle, maybe start very slow with your build so you are sure as you add things that it is truly what you want.
You may have $150k to spend, but I would be cautious about throwing all that money at something only to have it for sale on here is a couple of years at a big loss to you.