HID vs LED

[Hilldweller]

i was talking about running the rigid 10" light bar. the beam patter is alot more scattered even with the spot.

just making sure your opinion on the light wasnt being swayed thinking about the wrong product

Was the 10" bar independently tested and certified by the manufacturer to comply with DOT or ECE regulations for street use?
Sometimes that can be a concern. For that matter, the HIDx lights certainly don't conform to any worldwide regulations either; the mere fact that they burn at 6000K precludes onroad legality.

All things considered, a nice set of Cibie or Hella halogens can't be beat. The Hella 4000s are a relative bargain to this day.
Even a Lightfarce product is worth the bucks if you plan to abuse the heck out of it. I'd avoid their hokey and dubious "filters", especially the blue or amber ones, and I'd try to find ones with easier to replace bulbs (or carry spares).

I like LED for some applications but not what you described in your first post. Everything about their optics, throw, CRI, etc makes them ill-suited for the street environment.

HIDs make better driving lights, even foul weather lights if you color the lens or get the 3000K bulb. They too have drawbacks as described earlier.
And, as was pointed out, there is a huge difference between the Hong Kong specials and pieces from reliable sources. For one, never ever trust a company that offers 5000k and above color temperature. Period. The color temperature should be 4300 or below.

how about the military which have converted many of their lights to LED. they deal with extreme conditions i would assume.

Those lights bring the suck to the party in buckets. I think I linked some material to that in my earlier post.
Don't have enough suck at home? Buy a pair of those lights and try to use them. You'll be very pleased with your suck on the first dark foggy night; you'll cry out to the heavens, "my these lights SUCK!"
They sure do look cool in the parking lot. Hi tech. And when you switch them on and look at them; boy howdy.
But the idea is to look with your lights, not at them....

 

[gwhipp]

Here are some pictures from over the weekend. I wish I took some at night. It was pitch black.

 

[CanuckMariner/Nomad]

Another thing to consider with HID lights is that most need a ballast (powering up, surge) but some have them built-in and the ballast needs a place to reside that is water proof (ballasts do not like to get wet). This can be problematic when space in the engine bay is a premium for all those other applications (air compressor, heat exchanger for shower, dual battery set-ups, et al.) Also wiring in these ballasts (one per light) can be a PITA (if not built-in), and if one decides to put them in the cabin, then you need to go through the firewall again. Again, space in the cabin maybe a premium as well.

Although LEDs maybe a bit more expensive, given the advances they have made in quality, lighting, the price may also drop with time. They are also less weight. :costumed-smiley-007

 

[rezdiver]

Those lights bring the suck to the party in buckets. I think I linked some material to that in my earlier post.
Don't have enough suck at home? Buy a pair of those lights and try to use them. You'll be very pleased with your suck on the first dark foggy night; you'll cry out to the heavens, "my these lights SUCK!"
They sure do look cool in the parking lot. Hi tech. And when you switch them on and look at them; boy howdy.
But the idea is to look with your lights, not at them....

obviously you did not read post number 5. Have you ever run them on your truck? i have those exact same lights on my truck pictured and they are great, i have no issues whatsoever with them. I live on the west coast and get all weather and fog and do not understand what you are referring to. if its really foggy or a blizzard no light works well. and they are DOT SAE compliant.

 

[cruiserlarry]

Another thing to consider with HID lights is that most need a ballast (powering up, surge) but some have them built-in and the ballast needs a place to reside that is water proof (ballasts do not like to get wet). This can be problematic when space in the engine bay is a premium for all those other applications (air compressor, heat exchanger for shower, dual battery set-ups, et al.) Also wiring in these ballasts (one per light) can be a PITA (if not built-in), and if one decides to put them in the cabin, then you need to go through the firewall again. Again, space in the cabin maybe a premium as well.

Although LEDs maybe a bit more expensive, given the advances they have made in quality, lighting, the price may also drop with time. They (LEDs)are also less weight. :costumed-smiley-007

Actually, that is not completely accurate. Most Gen 2 and newer ballasts are waterproof, potted, sealed units that can get wet and still function. almost all new HID lighting systems offer internally mounted ballasts so mounting is not an issue, either. Gen 4 digital ballasts are less than 1/2" thick, and barely use 3"X3" footprint.

As far as weight, a Rigid 50" light bar weights more than 4 Hella HID lights, and requires a larger mounting area with less flexibility. So, it really depends on the specific needs you have, and the actual model of light you choose, in order to really see the differences between HIDs and LEDs, IMO. :Wow1:

 

[Hilldweller]

obviously you did not read post number 5. Have you ever run them on your truck? i have those exact same lights on my truck pictured and they are great, i have no issues whatsoever with them. I live on the west coast and get all weather and fog and do not understand what you are referring to. if its really foggy or a blizzard no light works well. and they are DOT SAE compliant.

A neighbor has them; I've watched them in use side-by-side with my stock H13 lights. Then, after fitting my Jeep with Hella H4 reflectors and bulbs, put the Jeep back out in the dark and took another series of beam shots.
I can honestly say that the Truck-Lite LED headlights are not at all effective for use as a headlight:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=500566&postcount=18

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=271800

Trucklite highbeam

Trucklite lowbeam

Stock H13 highbeam

Stock H13 lowbeam

Hella highbeam

Hella lowbeam

Hella plus yellow-tinted HID

 

[CanuckMariner/Nomad]

Actually, that is not completely accurate. Most Gen 2 and newer ballasts are waterproof, potted, sealed units that can get wet and still function. almost all new HID lighting systems offer internally mounted ballasts so mounting is not an issue, either. Gen 4 digital ballasts are less than 1/2" thick, and barely use 3"X3" footprint.

As far as weight, a Rigid 50" light bar weights more than 4 Hella HID lights, and requires a larger mounting area with less flexibility. So, it really depends on the specific needs you have, and the actual model of light you choose, in order to really see the differences between HIDs and LEDs, IMO. :Wow1:

I stand corrected, thanks, Larry!:bowdown:

 

[rezdiver]

Hilldweller,

I can see from the pics the reasoning behind your response. Something is not right about his lights, either a bad set or bad wiring or bad aim or something, there is no way the beam should be like that. DOT/SAE would never pass a headlamp with such a poor beam throw, my LED flashlight is brighter than those pictures, lol.
mine throw a way better beam than that, my main headlamps are eurospec E1 code 70/75w which are nice, but my LED's throw a much better beam. they are not spot lights or offroad lights so i do not expect that output or dispursement, but they put out just great for a headlamp equivelant.

 

[Skratch]

how did you find the LED's for icing up in the cold temps since they dont throw off much heat to melt the ice off the light?

I can see that being an issue depending on how and where they are mounted . . . in my case they were mounted in the stock driving light location inside my bumper and the airflow around them keeps them clear unless it is a very heavy wet snow . . . in which case even the 150w Hella lamps can't keep completely clear. I am running LED's in most locations now and the taillights are the only ones I really have a problem with keeping clear due to low heat output. However a good coating of Rain-X or non stick cooking spray every couple days in bad weather helps tremendously.

In my defense I was running them on a semi and not a smaller vehicle so I do push a lot more air and am able to keep most ice buildup to a minimum unless again it is a heavy wet snow. But in 40 below weather they worked great.

It all depends on the application to find the right lights. I have run Hella 4000's, 550's, Hella composite conversions for the headlights with 80/100w bulbs and the VisionX 8" double stack on this truck for forward lighting and each light has a specific job or time that I use it . . . I know a ton of lights on a truck may look dumb, but no one light can do all the jobs, so each has it's own specific use.

 

[skirescue]

Led vs. Hid

The first experience I had with LEDs was on a SAR team at altitude in the snow. We had been using halogen headlamps but the LEDs promised more light and less battery consumption. Climbing in the snow was no problem. Setting up an overnight bivvy and digging shelters...great work light. Skiing however was a big problem.:Wow1:. LEDs provide flat light. Anyone that has skied bumps or off piste conditions on an overcast day can tell you about flat light. You lose a lot of contrast and terrain features. Powering through Baja or the Arizona and Nevada desert at night.....we only use HIDs. Maybe at lower speeds..LEDs would be OK. But pushing our race truck and the chase trucks at high speeds at night...I'll stay with the added depth perception and contrast from the HIDs.

 

[Hilldweller]

obviously you did not read post number 5. Have you ever run them on your truck? i have those exact same lights on my truck pictured and they are great, i have no issues whatsoever with them. I live on the west coast and get all weather and fog and do not understand what you are referring to. if its really foggy or a blizzard no light works well. and they are DOT SAE compliant.

I've done much more testing with LEDs recently.

When I traded my Jeep in, it had JW Speaker LED headlights (I loved them), Truck-Lite 10" spots, & Truck-Lite 4" floods.
I had also tried the second generation Truck-Lite headlights but found them still lacking in many ways for use on a DD ----- good for a dedicated trail rig though.

Read this thread for the full shootout.

 

[Bluewater Australia]

I can comment from some experience; I have QH 80/110W low/high headlights, two of 72W LED floodlights, two of Lightforce 35W 240mm HIDs, two of Cibie Super Oscar 100W floods and a Cibie Super Oscar spot to fill the gap.

For on-road driving, the HIDs are in a class of their own. They're somewhat too bright for speeds below 45mph. By comparison, everything else is very ordinary.

For around town and off road, the LEDs and the Cibies are not much different. The Cibies do draw more power and have a somewhat yellower light. One of the LEDs has suffered water entry; they're not meant to do that. It's fogging a bit, hasn't been submerged. I believe the product may be the same as Rigid under another brand name. They're 3W x four deep x six wide each. They weigh a lot (needed for heat dissipation).

If I understood the OP's requirements correctly, the answer is definitely HIDs.

 

[Bluewater Australia]

p.s. The 'warm-up' time on an HID is inconsequential. A second or two to reach full blast first time, and imperceptible after that. Even if it was a second they're putting out more light than anything else before half that time anyway.

I believe part of the 'military' reasoning for LEDs is that you can shoot holes in them and they mostly still work. We don't need that.

 

[tbared]

I believe part of the 'military' reasoning for LEDs is that you can shoot holes in them and they mostly still work. We don't need that.[/QUOTE]

Well up in da norte US, when poachin season begins youd be surprised. Lead flies everywere.

:smiley_drive:

 

[tbared]

I can comment from some experience; I have QH 80/110W low/high headlights, two of 72W LED floodlights, two of Lightforce 35W 240mm HIDs, two of Cibie Super Oscar 100W floods and a Cibie Super Oscar spot to fill the gap.

Are Cibies quality still what they used to be, im in process of finding new yellow/amber fog lamps, and loved my old Marhcal w/ an amber lens. I am having trouble though finding a source here in the US for them.