Victorian
Approved Vendor : Total Composites
Anything is possible
Here are some samples of the broad range of enclosures availabl
Hierarchy of hard sided campers that handle the snow/winter?
- Thread starter B^2
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Here are some samples of the broad range of enclosures availablSkinhyfish
Observer
Scout?
They are laughably one of the worst (if not the worst) when it comes to the composite campers. Their bravado comes from their marketing team and spawn of influencers. Pick Total Composites, Bison, Lemker, Globetrekker, Cascadia, ATO, etc etc they are all vastly superior than Scout.
DiploStrat
Expedition Leader
I'll throw in a ringer.
We have a reasonably four season camper, at least down to -15F with no freezing with the heat on. They actually made some bad decisions on placement of the water pump and heater, but with Total Composites panels it still works as long as the heat is kept a bit higher than really needed. The cat always liked that!
But here is the ringer - where are you going?
If you are going to ski resorts, backwoods camping in the winter, etc., then you may really use the four season capability and I am the first to love a hot shower when it is cold outside.
BUT, we are in Europe, touring to see things and a lot of campgrounds start closing as early as October, and stay closed until March or later. Many of the aires/stellplatz, while open, turn off the water when it starts to freeze. And worse, many of the attractions/museums/etc., close over the winter as well.
We have done it, all the way into December, and enjoyed the Christmas markets, but, as others have noted, do be sure that you really need a four season camper. N.B. We have encountered some of the same challenges in the Eastern US. We could get through the snow, but the water was off!
It really should not be that much more expensive to build a four season camper, but many manufacturers don't and I would be a bit wary of trying to retrofit the capability.
As always, YMMV.
diplostrat.net
We have a reasonably four season camper, at least down to -15F with no freezing with the heat on. They actually made some bad decisions on placement of the water pump and heater, but with Total Composites panels it still works as long as the heat is kept a bit higher than really needed. The cat always liked that!
But here is the ringer - where are you going?
If you are going to ski resorts, backwoods camping in the winter, etc., then you may really use the four season capability and I am the first to love a hot shower when it is cold outside.
BUT, we are in Europe, touring to see things and a lot of campgrounds start closing as early as October, and stay closed until March or later. Many of the aires/stellplatz, while open, turn off the water when it starts to freeze. And worse, many of the attractions/museums/etc., close over the winter as well.
We have done it, all the way into December, and enjoyed the Christmas markets, but, as others have noted, do be sure that you really need a four season camper. N.B. We have encountered some of the same challenges in the Eastern US. We could get through the snow, but the water was off!
It really should not be that much more expensive to build a four season camper, but many manufacturers don't and I would be a bit wary of trying to retrofit the capability.
As always, YMMV.
Heading North or the End of the Road (for now)
Our last visit in Provence was to Avignon, a town known for its bridge. The campground, on an island in the Rhone, was not only open but had incredible views of the walled city of Avignon and the r…
diplostrat.net
Skinhyfish
Observer
Can I ask why? Just learning.
Their build quality is really terrible for the price you're paying. Acceptable if it was a DIY project you did in your driveway but not a production level camper that costs $35-40K. The composite panels are maybe an inch thick which is much less than the other brands. The way they join the panels is also inferior to other brands. They join them together with their extrusion like a butt joint whereas other companies are joining them with the extrusion like a rabbet joint. If you're into wood working a rabbet joint is much stronger than a butt joint. If you join their FB group there are issues with the panels coming apart from their extrusion. There are also issues with delamination, bubbling of the composites and leaks around doors, windows, etc. They also recommend resealing your camper yearly. No other composite camper builder advises you to reseal the camper yearly. Not OEV, TC, Bison, Cascadia, etc etc. They're obviously using inferior adhesives. Check out the FB group and you'll see condensation form around their extrusions. With any camper condensation is a concern, no matter if they're advertised as thermal transfer free. The idea is to mitigate this and the way Scout builds their campers makes them one of the worst when it comes to that. It's a poor 4 season camper because of that. There are a lot of pop-up campers that perform better than the Scout in winter.
There are also a lot of other QC issues like direct drilling into the composite with Home Depot grade wood screws, frequent electrical gremlins due to the Goal Zero that comes in their campers, odd component choices in a fridge that takes up seating and counter top space, a gigantic stove that takes up even more space, and general cheap feeling when compared to other composites. Just go to one of the Overland Expo's and feel and touch the campers. Scout is light duty compared to others. The cushions aren't comfortable and seating position in their campers are off too. The cushion stops about midway on your thighs and your leg is unsupported when seated. Just imaging sitting on a bar stool without leg support for hours, that's what sitting in a Scout feels like. I also found their campers to feel extremely tight inside, even on the Kenai. What I've also noticed is that people will buy their Scouts and then modify the heck out of the interior. Some have even gone so far as removing the interior cabinetry, electrical and water systems completely and doing their own. At that point it just makes more sense to go with a shell from one of the other companies and build it right from the start with higher quality panels and components of your choice.
If it sounds like I'm a Scout hater it's because I researched the heck out of these campers before I made a decision on mine and there were just so many short comings with the Scout for the money. These are just my opinions of course, others may feel differently and there are still a lot of satisfied Scout owners out there. Just not up to my standards if I'm flipping that much coin over.
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s.e.charles
Well-known member
words to live by!. . . Be surprised and elated if everything is smooth sailing
TheDeliverator
New member
Whom did you end up choosing. I've been looking at Globetrekker recently and their solution for the habitat is different\interesting.
I ended up with Total Composites from Bear Adventure Vehicles. When I was purchasing there were not as many options for shell builds. As well Bear was also willing to do custom interior choices and components as to what I wanted. Some of the composite builders have pre-set builds which wasn’t totally what I wanted. It’s taken longer than I hoped but that’s to be expected with a completely custom build. I think the TC shell also hit the right price point. While not cheap by any means it was in the price range that I wanted to spend for a fully assembled unit.
The Globetrekker looks very good as well. I’ve seen their unit in person and it’s also very impressive. The panels and extrusions seem to be a very high quality. The extrusions also have a T-track so you can mount things on the outside. The one thing I would keep in mind is that with Globetrekker I don’t believe the pricing includes the assembly cost, so you’re paying for the panels, extrusion and adhesives. Depending on the shop the assembly cost could be quite expensive. You will be getting a pretty unique high quality product however.
TheDeliverator
New member
Thank you for the good info! I'll take a look a BAV
Understood about Globetrekker just being the "kit", and while they do have a list of builders... It's unknown to me if any do custom work.
Trail Talk
Well-known member
I have no experience with other brands but our OEV has "weathered" numerous trips during the Canadian winters. There are tips and tricks to be learned for coping with extreme cold but having a great cabin and reliable truck is a good beginning. The Webasto hydronic heater is getting noisy so I'm scheduling a service before this winter's travels.
Skinhyfish
Observer
The Aterra by AT has has my attention the most for quality and lightness… curious about people’s opinions on warmth?
Bison and similar you can almost build out for $40k less. Hard to justify that big of a difference
Bison and similar you can almost build out for $40k less. Hard to justify that big of a difference
rruff
Explorer
They use PP honeycomb rather than foam, and thin at that, so it isn't going to have the thermal resistance of a bridgeless foam shell. It's probably fine for most use, but it wouldn't be ideal for cold winter camping.
calameda
Active member
The Aterra was initially marketed (wasn’t it?) as 3 season for a reason. Propane as primary fuel, the 1/2” thick honeycomb panels, lots of windows, no gray tank all suggest less extreme conditions, ie not long term sub zero. Which isnt to say you can’t be comfortable in it for say a 3-4 days in the snow with the heat cranked. Just that it isn’t intended for polar expeditions. Few are!
As for price, if you like their component choices, aesthetics and layout, I think it’s more than fair. If you have someone else do custom interior buildout, you could readily exceed that 40k to do something similar. Interior build quality is v good from what I’ve seen, w thoughtful usability touches, though with an eye towards weight savings rather than ultimate durability. And cabover bed has limited headroom, will definitely bother some. But yeah their dry weight (listed as 1200 lbs base config) is really impressive. Id hazard you can’t get close to that with anything else similarly configured. (I should add that vendor supplied weights are often optimistic; I’m curious if any Aterra owners can verify.)
It will all come down to personal preferences and tradeoffs.
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