Honda CR-V!

Hi everyone!

I was gone for 12 days (supposed to be 11 days with a day of rest before going back to work), a day longer than I had planned. I went to Columbus Ohio to meet with some of my family there before we drove in their cars to Boston, Massachusetts for the family reunion. I had a great time and will be putting up a link from my America Overland web page to reflect a change in vehicle ownership and document what was an epic trip it was for me.

To head off some questions right away, I did not let go of my Scout, which is still in restoration, and I'm not going to. I have a good reason for keeping the Scout now. I am now the owner of a 2003 Honda CR-V, 4WD with automatic transmission and real-time all-wheel drive (suitable for green-laning or two-tracking, not off-roading) and even comes with a picnic table that is the floor under the carpet when it's stowed. The fact that it's electronic everything scares me and could be expensive to fix years down the road (even though Honda has the best thing going for a vehicle in its price range of all the makers). Hence, the reference to the posting in the electronic gizmo thread in which I said that I would probably have to eat my entire wardrobe of undergarments for disparaging electronics in general and having to buy it at the car lot.

This is how it happened. I had my Toyota Corolla checked out thoroughly, because I would be driving 2600 miles roundtrip in the car (Houston-Columbus and back). I took off for Columbus on Sunday, July 25th, just before 10 AM. Barely 200 miles into the trip, the AC failed. At the time, I understood that the AC compressor had a slow leak, so it would hold a recharge for just under a year (because for the last four years, I had it recharged), which was last done about 5 months ago. What happened was that the compressor was really getting clogged up (this, I was not told), and when it stopped up, the fuse in the middle of the dash blew. This would have been an expensive repair by itself. I kept going and made it to Columbus by changing from driving during the day to night time, which I learned is how people without AC used to travel long distances sometimes. Halfway through Tennessee on the way to Nashville to get to the REI store before they closed for the night (I made it in time), I started to feel the car lurch lightly, momentarily. I thought, "Now what? Fuel pump? Bad gas?" I texted my aunt, preparing mentally for a tow across two states. That never happened, fortunately.

I dropped off the Corolla with my aunt's mechanic, who later told us what happened with the AC. The lurching I felt was supposedly the motor mounts wearing badly, allowing the motor to shift in place whenever I was coming up through the acceleration from 45 to 60 MPH. It was looking bad. I already owed $1,200 I was getting ready to pay off within 6 months alongside two other bills at the same time. It did not make sense to me to triple that bill, especially an 18-year-old car that limited me in my carrying capacity.

It took some time to find the vehicle, but the paperwork was a nightmare because of the interstate nature of the transaction. We're still getting the paperwork completed, even though I already drove the CR-V home and have been home a week now. I wanted a Honda Element and then the CR-V as a VERY CLOSE second. Reliability was a priority for me, because I would be paying out the loan for maybe two years (even though I have a 5-year/100,000 mi service contract on it). I could not find a SINGLE Element that was a 2005 or older at any of the decent lots or better. Not a one. They were all 2006 and up, and costing a pretty penny, I remember around $12,000 for a very high mileage model to $15,000 or more for one with less than 100,000 mi on it. I decided that was too much for me. I opted for the CR-V, and had looked at the first generation, but fortunately, I didn't get it because the second generation has 1,500 lbs towing capacity compared to the older model's 1,000 lbs limit. Even if I had the money and was stuck on the CR-V, I wouldn't get the third generation because of their appearance, the fact that you can't haul as much as before because of the curves in the ceiling and sidewalls, and the fact that they moved the spare inside into the floor. They simply look too much like a car, and I suppose they even ride more like a car as well. I also found out a few days ago that the models 2005 and up have drive-by-wire throttle. This means that unless we return to mechanizing critical functions of future vehicles, I better get started on a restoration fund for the CR-V NOW (even though it's in excellent condition, and will be for several years). I bought the vehicle from Auto Pawn USA in Columbus (www.autopawnohio.com and ask for John Cordell). John seems to be a nice man, straight up. My aunt and I watched him closely, and it helped that we have family who works in the business in the area and knows John. We were able to get the CR-V at a lower price than most places simply because he was willing to give her a break for giving him the business.

I had a few issues come up; before we even left the lot, we discovered that the rain/roof rack trim strips at the front was not tightened down properly, and after driving through 50 MPH winds and rain so solid you couldn't see the stripes on the road even at 20-30 MPH on the way to Cincinnati, and some hail, the windshield gasket across the top started coming undone from the left side. I just popped it back it, and it came out again after driving another 500 miles, once again through that same massive storm after it passed me during my nap at a rest stop. I popped it back in again. I discovered a noise in the very first parking lot after picking up the truck (and the lot closed as soon as we had left at 8 PM that night). It sounded and felt like driving on the warning washboard strips on the side of the Interstate, and it would do it in both directions in tight turns. Also, driving down the highway, it felt like the front wheels were unbalanced. It turned out to be the rear differential fluid, which for some reason was missed during the prepping of this truck for sale. Now, the truck drives like a dream and has plenty of room! I had no chance to find out these issues because I had to leave for home at the last minute. I was already a day and a half late for home (I arrived home 4 hours before my work shift was to start, and I had been awake for 48 hours as of 9 AM and traveling for 34 hours (including driving, napping, eating, and refueling), and I had communication problems with Relay service for the phone while trying to talk to my boss while about 10 hours from home, the night before I was to show up for work). My boss understood that my situation was beyond my control and and that I was doing the best I could, so she let off for the day to get sleep and make up for the lost hours the following week.

I estimate I traveled somewhere around 4,500-4,700 miles if you include all the riding I did in Columbus as my aunt showed me the pretty rural area of Sunbury, Ohio and went to see my cousin and her family rock climbing at the Rock Gym there, etc., plus the riding during the time my aunt was in driving mode during the drive from Columbus to Boston (we took turns driving for 14-16 hours).

I have yet to search who else has CR-Vs here so that I can learn more about it and see what options I have with it. I already tried getting inside the cargo area to see how much room I have. It's too bad I can't remove the rear seats to get me a pad and sleeping bag back there, but I have three options I'm looking at, but I don't think I'm going to want to try anything right now until I have paid quite a bit towards the truck and other things. I want to have a little bit of pocket money so that I can do local trips and start saving for the next big trip next year. I'm going to either pull a friend's popup camper (depending on the Scout's completion) or simply borrow a tent for camping later this fall. Something valuable I learned HERE is that I don't have to have all the gear in place to enjoy a trip in exactly the way "it's supposed to be done."

I did NOT expect to leave Texas with my Corolla and come back in a new-to-me vehicle. I still can't believe all the things I had to do to make this happen, and still enjoyed a great, fantastic trip, that won't get repeated like this again in the same way, ever. Anyway, here we go!
 

Attachments

  • DSCN2022.JPG
    DSCN2022.JPG
    170.2 KB · Views: 47
  • DSCN2023.JPG
    DSCN2023.JPG
    162.3 KB · Views: 39
  • DSCN2028.JPG
    DSCN2028.JPG
    185.3 KB · Views: 77
Last edited:

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
Congrats on the new truck Stephanie. From what I've seen the CR-V has a bit more clearance than the Element (I considered an element years ago when I still had my Outback and was thinking of trading it in.) Honda earned their reputation for reliability so I think you can count on having the CR-V for quite a while. I take it it's an automatic? I know the 1st gen CR-Vs were available with 5 speeds (knew a girl who had one) but I don't know about the 2nd gens.

Wife and I actually looked at a 2nd gen CR-V two years ago when we were shopping for her new truck. I thought it was OK but she didn't like it.

I agree with you about the 3rd generation, IMO moving the spare inside was a mistake - I'm pretty sure that means a crappy temporary tire vs a real spare (which I presume is what you have.)

I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the places you can get a CR-V into. Back in 2008 I followed a 2nd gen CR-V along one of the really bumpy trails in the Maze District of Canyonlands National Park. I was really impressed by where the CR-V could go.

Of course, they were driving to one of the parking areas so they could hike - no sane person would take a CR-V down to Cleopatra's Chair! There are rock ledges 12 - 18" high that would probably crunch the CR-Vs sheet metal, to say nothing of the way lack of low range would make it difficult if not impossible for the vehicle to get back up those ledges.
 

SVS

Observer
My wife has one. Her's is a 2003 LX 2wd, we bought new and it sits at just under 100k. We use it often and it's outstanding. The AWD would be better. We went all throught the Carrizo Plane with it this spring with never an issue. Not a heavy duty off-roader but many adventures don't require that.

Good Mileage, comfortable and Honda quality. Excellet ascent and descent angles and easily upgrade-able.

Here is ours. Cheers!

841633226_TARnk-M.jpg
 
Congrats on the new truck Stephanie. From what I've seen the CR-V has a bit more clearance than the Element (I considered an element years ago when I still had my Outback and was thinking of trading it in.)

I agree with you about the 3rd generation, IMO moving the spare inside was a mistake - I'm pretty sure that means a crappy temporary tire vs a real spare (which I presume is what you have.)

I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the places you can get a CR-V into. Back in 2008 I followed a 2nd gen CR-V along one of the really bumpy trails in the Maze District of Canyonlands National Park. I was really impressed by where the CR-V could go.

Of course, they were driving to one of the parking areas so they could hike - no sane person would take a CR-V down to Cleopatra's Chair! There are rock ledges 12 - 18" high that would probably crunch the CR-Vs sheet metal, to say nothing of the way lack of low range would make it difficult if not impossible for the vehicle to get back up those ledges.

I didn't realize that the CR-V has a bit more ground clearance and is apparently slotted between the Pilot and the Element in terms of size (according to wiki). Yes, it is an automatic with overdrive (updated my signature, thanks).

Yes, there's no granny gears on these things. I'm keeping that for the Scout if I decide to upgrade it to manual transmission with 4WD, which is a ways off. I don't want to bite off more than I can chew right now.

While I was trying out the cargo area, I also found that I have about 18 inches of clearance under the lowest part of the car port. I wonder what I can get under there. I haven't decided if I want a RTT, a sub-300-lbs camping trailer made by LeesureLite, or some kind of telescoping tent that comes out of the cargo area and expands out onto the ground (a bed platform with a leaf that swings up and out over the threshold to extend the bed platform area is an option). I have time to think about this while I make my financial obligations a bit more comfortable to handle.

Thanks!
 
My wife has one. Her's is a 2003 LX 2wd, we bought new and it sits at just under 100k. We use it often and it's outstanding. The AWD would be better. We went all throught the Carrizo Plane with it this spring with never an issue. Not a heavy duty off-roader but many adventures don't require that.

Good Mileage, comfortable and Honda quality. Excellet ascent and descent angles and easily upgrade-able.

Here is ours. Cheers!


Easily upgradeable? I'll have to go hide my wallet...

The AWD is something I've never had before, and I've done muddy roads without it. It's tricky, but I never got stuck in it when I was a kid. I had a Datsun 210 Hatchback with a manual transmission. I don't remember if it was front-wheel or read-wheel drive. I drove it on properties we owned at the time and never had to lock the hubs and move into 4LOW on Dad's trucks when my car was down.

I'm glad to hear your input. Now, where did I put my wallet...
 

BigAl

Expedition Leader
we have an 08 with 100k on it. My wife runs the wheels off of it and it never even coughs. I think you made a good choice. Some of the early CRVs have a removeable card table in the back. Did you get one of those?
 

toy_tek

Adventurer
Congrats. I like the CR-V, ex g/f has a 97 with 170k and I've done some work on it over the last couple years (timing belt, pan gasket, brakes, etc) and it is very easy to work on and the parts are quite inexpensive. Runs like a top, the bottom insides of the engine is one of the cleanest I've ever seen. It'll go another 100k I'm sure if she doesn't wreck it.

I've had it offroad a little, it does fine considering the ground clearance and street tires. Nice vehicle!
 

paulj

Expedition Leader
I have a 2003 Element and am active on the Element Owners Club forum. There's a sister CRV Owners Club forum. I used to follow an old HondaCRV forum, but don't know if that is still active.

The best description of the CRV AWD mechanism is a pdf that was originally posted on a QuebecCRV forum. I suspect it is still around someplace (I have a copy). All the 'logic' is in that extension at the front of the rear diff. If the rear drive shaft (i.e. the front wheels) spins faster than the differential, a clutch pack tightens, and temporarily sends power through to the rear wheels. The shift in torque may be up to 70% for a matter of seconds.

On rough roads the main problem that I've read about was damage to the emissions canister behind the fuel tank. This could happen if you follow deep ruts and drag the bottom. In the worse case the canister gets dislodged, in turn hitting a half shaft, and leaking fluid from the diff.

And if you hear noises from the rear, or when turning, it may be time to change the AWD fluid.

I drive my Element as a front wheel drive, viewing the AWD as a backup in case I put the front wheels on a slick spot. If people get stuck its because they've lost traction on both a front wheel and a rear one.
 
we have an 08 with 100k on it. My wife runs the wheels off of it and it never even coughs. I think you made a good choice. Some of the early CRVs have a removeable card table in the back. Did you get one of those?

Are you talking about the green picnic table with folding legs? If so, yes. It's in the third photo.

Stephanie
 

BigAl

Expedition Leader
Are you talking about the green picnic table with folding legs? If so, yes. It's in the third photo.

Stephanie

duh, sorry i was posting from work and couldn't see the photos. My buddy has that table. we use it all the time. it makes a trail side lunch so much more civilized:elkgrin:
 
I have a 2003 Element and am active on the Element Owners Club forum. There's a sister CRV Owners Club forum. I used to follow an old HondaCRV forum, but don't know if that is still active.

The best description of the CRV AWD mechanism is a pdf that was originally posted on a QuebecCRV forum. I suspect it is still around someplace (I have a copy). All the 'logic' is in that extension at the front of the rear diff. If the rear drive shaft (i.e. the front wheels) spins faster than the differential, a clutch pack tightens, and temporarily sends power through to the rear wheels. The shift in torque may be up to 70% for a matter of seconds.

...

And if you hear noises from the rear, or when turning, it may be time to change the AWD fluid.


Ah! You name is familiar, because I've seen you over on EOC. I'll check out COC (is that on EOC as a subforum, or a forum that stands on its own?). I was the one wanting to mechanize an E because of all the electronics in it.

I do have a few questions about the rear diff. Why does it make that noise? is it because the rear diff. is unable to sense that the operating environment changes out of spec because of the breakdown in the fluid from use and aging? It sounds like per computer instructions, the fluid's impact on actual performance causes the result or action to not perform like it's supposed to.

What is happening when it makes the noise? Is either of the rear tires spinning out of spec, making the washboard noise, or is it the diff. itself making the noise that I hear and feel? What about when it happens on the highway - are the rear tires skipping on the pavement because they are turning slightly slower than the front tires, being slowed down by the inability to completely disengage the rear axles from the diff. via the hydraulic pressure plates in 2WD mode? I would like to learn more, as I don't know a THING about these things. As I understand, it is a limited slip differential that addresses the shortcoming of getting stuck with an open differential.

One last question - does the rear differential with its expired fluid have an impact on gas mileage? It would seem as though it would, because the expired fluid apparently caused the vibration from the rear to occur and be transmitted to the front wheels, making it feel like (with no sense of acoustic direction sensing from hearing aids - I just know it's happening, and I feel it in my hands on the steering wheel) the steering wheel bounces back and forth like the tires were unbalanced and thusly dribbling on the road). I would hear a fluttering sound. I noticed that after a nap break at a rest stop, the fluttering feeling and sound would be kind of loud, but ease up as the fluid warmed back up, and I learned in the 1,300-mi drive home to speed up to a certain speed range where the vibration was minimal, but still there. It would seem like that the vibration might have been the rear tires skipping because it couldn't go as fast as the front tires.

I hope someone here can explain this. Both the tight-turn noise and the highway noise went away completely after changing out the rear diff. fluid.

Thanks!
 

paulj

Expedition Leader
My guess is that oil in the rear diff breaks down or gets dirty, but I don't know how or why this causes noises. I've changed mine at about 30,000 mile intervals, so have never had this problem, and can't describe them firsthand.

The fluid is shared by the diff and AWD mechanism. In the AWD mechanism it constantly circulates, moved by two small pumps. One pump is connected to the rear drive shaft, the other to the 'input' of the rear diff. Normally that 2nd one is turned by the rear wheels rotating as car rolls. As long as both pumps turn about the same rate, the oil circulates freely (passing through a small filter along the way).

When the drive shaft pump spins faster, pressure builds up, and presses on a piston connect to a clutch pack. When this pack closes, the rear drive shaft is connected to the rear diff. I think the same oil lubricates the clutch pack.

So when the oil deteriorates, one of several things might happen:
- the right/left action of the diff is impaired
- the dual pump mechanism becomes more sensitive to front/back rpm differences (on curves the front and rear diffs spin at different rates, hence the need for some sort of open diff between them on all AWD cars).
- the clutch pack sticks
Regardless of the cause, the rear diff oil change seems to solve the problem for most people. Having to repair or replace the AWD mechanism is pretty rare.

I don't think the RT4WD (or dual pump AWD) mechanism has changed that much since the days of the Honda Civic wagon. Sometime in the last 5 years the CRV has added a faster acting cam mechanism that transmits a limited amount of power (something like 10%).
 
Last edited:
Thanks paulj, but I'll have to see if I can shave off another two hours of sleep. :Wow1: :fallasleep:

The nature of the AWD system as you describe seems to explain why I would not hear or feel the noise when backing up in a tight turn, but only in a forward direction.

Did you mean to say that the left and right sides of the differentials turn at different speeds, not front and rear differentials?

Thank you for shining some light on this mysterious machine in my truck! I'll be looking at this PDF soon!

Stephanie
 

paulj

Expedition Leader
When going around a corner, the outside wheel travels further, so turns faster. That's the difference that an ordinary differential accommodates. It sends equal torque to both sides, but allows for different rpms.

But there is also a difference between front and rear wheels. The rear ones never track the front ones exactly. That's why you should not use a conventional 4x4 on dry pavement. That original style turned the front and rear drive shafts at the same rate, and tension built up in the system if you took a corner on dry pavement.

So AWD systems that are meant to be used on dry pavement have some sort of open differential (or viscous clutch) between the front and rear driveshafts. They have different ways of responding to the situation where you want different torque front and rear.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
189,971
Messages
2,922,753
Members
233,207
Latest member
Goldenbora
Top