How good can a full-size solid axle suspension be?

[nitro_rat]

Or you can go low-budget.

Skyjacker 2" taller springs up front, a 2" long-leaf add-a-leaf in the rear, and Bilstein 5100 series shocks all around. Extended bump stops in the front, and Timbren bump-stops in the rear. Figure a couple hundred dollars total for all the suspension stuff, which leaves me more money for other cool stuff.

View attachment 562744

I don't think that's the direction he's headed in...

 

[Metcalf]

Or you can go low-budget.

Skyjacker 2" taller springs up front, a 2" long-leaf add-a-leaf in the rear, and Bilstein 5100 series shocks all around. Extended bump stops in the front, and Timbren bump-stops in the rear. Figure a couple hundred dollars total for all the suspension stuff, which leaves me more money for other cool stuff.

Yeah, I guess I am looking for 'more' than just functional. The custom valved shocks on the last build spoiled me, worth every penny.

 

[rnArmy]

I don't think that's the direction he's headed in...

I know; I was doing a Monty Python "And now for something completely different" kind-of viewpoint.

 

[nitro_rat]

I know; I was doing a Monty Python "And now for something completely different" kind-of viewpoint.

Sorry, I never "got" Monty Python. I'll stop commenting here as I don't think I have anything constructive to offer to the OP.

 

[mk216v]

Im not an expert, but I trust guys who are... for my ram 2500 - I've been told 2.5s. The move to 3 inch shocks would push me into trusing my axle to see the benefit.

Thuren and Carli seem to be the guys to trust with the RAM trucks. I like how Thuren has 6 different valving profiles.

 

[rnArmy]

And I thought I was stepping up my game when I went to the Bilstein 5100 series shocks. I've never had custom-valved shocks, so I guess I don't know what I'm missing (or those special mini leaf-spring packs Carli is famous for). At least I've heard of Thuren and Carli.

This thread interested me because I've got a full-sized truck with solid axles front and rear (96 Ram 1500 4x4) that I think rides ok. It is fun to see what can be done to these full-sized solid axle vehicles to make them ride better, since a lot of manufacturers are going to independent front suspension (at least on the half-tons).

 

[luthj]

A custom tuned shock, especially on a heavy vehicle, is a big difference. The level of adjustment possible is pretty significant, and the results can be tailored for your needs. 2.0 IFP shocks aren't even that expensive, and still allow for application specific tuning.

 

[shade]

A custom tuned shock, especially on a heavy vehicle, is a big difference. The level of adjustment possible is pretty significant, and the results can be tailored for your needs. 2.0 IFP shocks aren't even that expensive, and still allow for application specific tuning.

That, and the volume of oil and the larger shocks ability to dissipate heat make a significant difference in what a vehicle can do on some terrain. There's nothing wrong with less expensive options, but they'll hit their limits much quicker on surfaces that cycle the shocks frequently, like washboard roads.

 

[luthj]

I have about 80k miles on my fox 2.0 rears, at least 15k of dirt and unimproved roads. All of it heavily loaded. At ~70k miles I pulled apart my left rear shock due to a seal failure. A rock had chipped the plating on the shaft, which killed the seal. Other than the shaft seal, there was no significant wear. The shaft bearing, teflon seal, etc were all in nearly new condition. There was a bit of wear on the IFP bore (external resi).

In this time period I went through 2 sets of OE style front struts. They just stopped damping, though none blew the seals.

So the fox units were both more durable, and had much better damping.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

OKAs use twin low cost shockers on each corner.
I made some protectors from HDPE pipe to protect the rears from rock damage.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[Metcalf]

I've been doing some thinking and measuring on the front spring issue. I am still pretty convinced that the front end spring rate is WAY too high for the vehicle weight and suspension travel. While custom springs are an option, it doesn't seem like the easiest thing to get right the 1st time.

Is there any reason that I couldn't just use an off the shelf 3.75" ID Eibach coilover spring? They seem to have 18 or 20" springs that seem like they would be very close to the free length I need to allow for a lighter spring rate while still maintaining some preload at max droop. The stock springs I have are about 400lbs/in. It looks like they have springs in 350, 300, and 250lbs/in in those sizes.

It seems like it would be pretty easy to make some kind of derlin isolator for the upper spring mount to replace the factory rubber part that has a notch for coil tail. The eibach coil will just need a flat round mount.

The lower end seems like the bigger challenge, but still pretty easy. The factory lower coil mount is a reduced diameter pigtail. It fits into a mount that bolts to the knuckle. I think the lower mount could just be remade to accept the flat round Eibach coil. I think it could be made out of steel or aluminum easy enough. It just needs to lock into the ridge on the knuckle. The mount for the coil just needs to be high enough to clear the knuckle and balljoint area.

Here is a pic of that area.....

 

[nitro_rat]

I'm surprised at your reluctance to have custom coils wound when you seem to be willing to drop thousands of dollars on shocks. A set of custom wound coils will run less than $500, potentially a lot less. A reputable maker may even be willing to redo them if the first set isn't satisfactory.

The shock will not have to work nearly so hard if the spring rate is correct.

 

[luthj]

Sure, off the shelf coils would work. Some vendors even off a spring exchange (with modest fee) if you need to change the rate in the first 30 days.

It should be pretty easy to pick a good spring rate though. Start with what you got, do the load calculations for the ideal rate. Then pick the length which gives you the desired ride height. Should be plus/minus 1/2" if your weights are accurate.

Either way you can get spares if needed. Factory design might be easier, but either way you can get them in a few days in the unlikely event you break one.

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

I'm surprised at your reluctance to have custom coils wound when you seem to be willing to drop thousands of dollars on shocks. A set of custom wound coils will run less than $500, potentially a lot less. A reputable maker may even be willing to redo them if the first set isn't satisfactory.

The shock will not have to work nearly so hard if the spring rate is correct.

I would venture to guess that because the art of making custom suspension is basically gone in the last few years. Used to be ample competent custom spring makers.

I've wasted $2k+ in the last couple years trying to get custom springs made for my Tundra, from both Deaver and from Boise. Both once reputable shops. Now just cranking out premade stuff.

I know you're talking coils, which are easy to swap, but when youre a one man show and do all youre own work, swapping out 4 different sets of LEAF SPRINGS that incompetent morons cant even get close to right, your faith disappears.

My .02

 

[Metcalf]

I'm surprised at your reluctance to have custom coils wound when you seem to be willing to drop thousands of dollars on shocks. A set of custom wound coils will run less than $500, potentially a lot less. A reputable maker may even be willing to redo them if the first set isn't satisfactory.

The shock will not have to work nearly so hard if the spring rate is correct.

I'm not against custom coils. If you have any vendors that you have experience with I would love to hear about it.

Guessing at the 'correct' spring rate is a bit of an issue. I have my theories, but it would be nice to be able to try a few things easily if I get it right. Even the eibach coils have decent 50lb/in jumps....and 2" length changes.