How important is GVWR?

[RoyJ]

Don't know how accurate this guy's source is, but he claims a rear axle capacity of 1600 kgs (3520 lbs) on a Hilux:

https://www.pradopoint.com.au/forum...x-safety-alert-prado-next?p=300241#post300241

That's higher than Tacoma's 3110 lbs. If they're in fact the same axle, then what limits the Taco - tires, suspension, frame, marketing?

 

[RoyJ]

This site talks about GVW (our GVWR) upgrades on a Hilux, and the increased rear GAWR is - 2065 kgs, or 4,543 lbs, holy crap!

http://www.statewide4x4.com.au/gvm-products/toyota-hilux-150-series-4x2-gvm-upgrade.aspx

Interesting how they didn't upgrade ANY internal axle component, kind of shows how much room is left on OEM ratings.

 

[Bayou Boy]

Those numbers just seem so low, but I'm sure the rear axle weight of a Taco is half the 3000# rear axle weight of my Ram.

Are the current Tacomas the same frame/running gear as the Hilux? I thought the current Tacoma was a US specific design.

 

[tacollie]

Hilux has a fully boxed frame and if supposedly stronger than the Tacoma is with a 2/3 c-channel frame. Supposedly they use the same axles but the Hilux's are rated for more weight. Probably because they don't have to meet US safety standards.

If the Hilux was sold here it would have a lower GVWR and a full size is still better for carrying 2000lbs. I mentioned my friends with a FWC on their access can taco. Dry the camper is just under 900lbs. They are athletes so maybe 280lb combined. Loaded up for a trip they are over GVWR but under GAWR. That is where I shoot for with my Taco but I am usually under GVWR because we pack light.

 

[DaveInDenver]

If the Hilux was sold here it would have a lower GVWR and a full size is still better for carrying 2000lbs.

We can say this with certainty since this was exactly the case from 1979 to 1995. Those trucks were Hilux but spec'd lower in the U.S. Marketing and regulations (import rules, tariffs, I dunno) probably had something to do with it. I notice also that many people who are using small trucks recreationally in the U.S. don't concern themselves with these things because we don't have to. In many places GVM/GVWR/GAWR is more important to people and suspension modifications require engineering, either on the kit or on your custom work. Due to that my assumption is that there's more headroom in the numbers to account for variance and that most people don't bother driving on a scale ever.

 

[Timcampsallover]

Ok, so here’s my take. Let’s not forget about Gross Combined Vehicle Weight ratings!

My Taco drives and handles like a dream. WAAAAY better than factory. When I’m connected to my trailer(3500# wet) I’m under the GCWR. I think that’s good if I’m ever in a jurisdiction that cares ....or can cite/ticket for weight.

I’ve made substantial changes to tires,gearing,springs,suspension system including shocks, reinforced some areas, and made brake upgrades. I believe my changes should increase my payload capacity by (delete “by”/add “to”) TO about 2500 pounds. I’m probably about a thousand pounds over PAYLOAD capacity in the book and about 1500# over GVWR although I haven’t scaled the truck to confirm.

I can corner at higher speeds safely, stop faster even when fully loaded and have better contact and traction in all road conditions. The manufacturer (by whatever process) bases the GVWR, GVWCR, and Payload based on the stock vehicle. There’s not much left stock on my Tacoma except the frame and I pay attention to it. So far no issues. I’d wager that my truck is safer even though it’s a lot heavier......than some I see on the road which are stock, but aren’t maintained.

 

[Bayou Boy]

I’ve made substantial changes to tires,gearing,springs,suspension system including shocks, reinforced some areas, and made brake upgrades. I believe my changes should increase my payload capacity by about 2500 pounds. I’m probably about a thousand pounds over PAYLOAD capacity in the book and about 1500# over GVWR although I haven’t scaled the truck to confirm.

You're kidding yourself. Stock 3/4 ton trucks are in the 2500-3000# payload area and 1 ton SRWs are in the 3700-4200# payload area. No way did you add 2500# of capacity to your Tacoma. You did not add the equivalent of a 3/4 ton truck's payload to your Tacoma.

 

[Ryanmb21]

Ok, so here’s my take. Let’s not forget about Gross Combined Vehicle Weight ratings!

My Taco drives and handles like a dream. WAAAAY better than factory. When I’m connected to my trailer(3500# wet) I’m under the GCWR. I think that’s good if I’m ever in a jurisdiction that cares ....or can cite/ticket for weight.

I’ve made substantial changes to tires,gearing,springs,suspension system including shocks, reinforced some areas, and made brake upgrades. I believe my changes should increase my payload capacity by about 2500 pounds. I’m probably about a thousand pounds over PAYLOAD capacity in the book and about 1500# over GVWR although I haven’t scaled the truck to confirm.

I can corner at higher speeds safely, stop faster even when fully loaded and have better contact and traction in all road conditions. The manufacturer (by whatever process) bases the GVWR, GVWCR, and Payload based on the stock vehicle. There’s not much left stock on my Tacoma except the frame and I pay attention to it. So far no issues. I’d wager that my truck is safer even though it’s a lot heavier......than some I see on the road which are stock, but aren’t maintained.

My take is you’re way out of line. You’re payload is ~1,250 and you’ve doubled it. You should split up your load and get two Tacomas or a ram 2500.

Payload and tow ratings are two different things.

You’re upgrades are nice, but what’s that saying about a chain?

 

[Clutch]

Ok, so here’s my take. Let’s not forget about Gross Combined Vehicle Weight ratings!

My Taco drives and handles like a dream. WAAAAY better than factory. When I’m connected to my trailer(3500# wet) I’m under the GCWR. I think that’s good if I’m ever in a jurisdiction that cares ....or can cite/ticket for weight.

I’ve made substantial changes to tires,gearing,springs,suspension system including shocks, reinforced some areas, and made brake upgrades. I believe my changes should increase my payload capacity by about 2500 pounds. I’m probably about a thousand pounds over PAYLOAD capacity in the book and about 1500# over GVWR although I haven’t scaled the truck to confirm.

I can corner at higher speeds safely, stop faster even when fully loaded and have better contact and traction in all road conditions. The manufacturer (by whatever process) bases the GVWR, GVWCR, and Payload based on the stock vehicle. There’s not much left stock on my Tacoma except the frame and I pay attention to it. So far no issues. I’d wager that my truck is safer even though it’s a lot heavier......than some I see on the road which are stock, but aren’t maintained.

You're kidding yourself. Stock 3/4 ton trucks are in the 2500-3000# payload area and 1 ton SRWs are in the 3700-4200# payload area. No way did you add 2500# of capacity to your Tacoma. You did not add the equivalent of a 3/4 ton truck's payload to your Tacoma.

My take is you’re way out of line. You’re payload is ~1,250 and you’ve doubled it. You should split up your load and get two Tacomas or a ram 2500.

Payload and tow ratings are two different things.

You’re upgrades are nice, but what’s that saying about a chain?

If it ain't broke, fix it until it is!

 

[68camaro]

So, this is all a bit confusing to a newbe. Specs for a 2012 3500HD long bed chevy I am looking at:

https://www.cars.com/research/chevrolet-silverado_3500-2012/specs/usc20cht47ac0/
GVWR - 11,000
GCWR - 16,000 no idea what this means
Rear GAWR - 6,390
5th wheel towing capacity - 9,200
Ok now my head is spinning........
Towing capacity - 9200 lbs
Curb weight - 6,500

So my question,
1 - is this saying I can load the truck up to 11,000 lbs AND still tow 9,200lbs? Or,
2 - does it mean total vehicle weight plus trailer cannot exceed 16,000?
If "2" is correct does it matter how weight is distributed bewteen truck and trailer? Ex. can have heavy payload in truck and liter trailer, or can I have almost no payload and heavy trailer?

Thanks in advance

 

[Timcampsallover]

I’m a little surprised by the call outs.

Could because I said “by 2500#” instead of TO 2500#?!

My mistake. Sorry about that. To clarify....I think I’ve increased the useful load, or “ payload” to 2500#. So an increase of about 1,105# over stock. As an aside, the Pre Runner from the same year starts out with a payload of 1500# compared to my 1395#. Probably springs and shocks and less the transfer case and front axles, etc?

Before you guys get too excited, let me share some specific details about my build and the vary intentional effects I’m experiencing and therefore the reason I believe I’m ok with the extra weight.

Icon Stage 7 full suspension. This remote reservoir dual control shock and UCA replacement system provides better spindles, bushings, UCAs and shocks, upgraded front springs to 750#, 2.75” lift, regear with Yukon/grizzly 4.56, upgraded e and p or q rated tires with 3750# load at pressure, bed stiffeners, modified/custom All Pro Expedition springs with upgraded bushings and mounts. Stainless steel extended brake lines and aggressive rotors and pads designed for higher heat and hard stops. I was ready to upgrade to the willwood big brake kit or do the tundra retrofit but...it’s...just....not...necessary.

I’ve got the same factory rake with a slightly downward angle, I’m not maxed out or past the recommended 2.75” on the adjustment collars up front. My tires don’t rub, and the rear has the right amount of play before hitting the bump stops fully loaded.

I’ve crawled around pretty extensively n GA and NC Forrest roads as well as lots of sand both wet and dry here in FL, mountain backroads in the SE, Texas and ak, lots of highway driving at speed too, broken pavement, dirt, gravel, washboard, humped two lane and highway I’m good to go. Fully loaded my truck drives and handles like an unloaded 1500 Chevy LTZ ZR1, and better than any dodge I’ve ever driven. Only ....since it’s a Tacoma I can go places others typically don’t because I’m so much narrower.

I’ve had some experience with frames, axles springs and loads too. 20+ Potato harvest seasons, bean trucks too, dump trucks, buggies, old k series, 1500’s, 2500,s, 3500,s, e350’s, e450,s, I’ve hauled my own excavation equipment and tractors in Miami traffic and set up several service trucks from scratch. Chevy, Ford, Volvo, White, International, Allison automatics to 12 speed split axles and everything in between. Also designed equipment from scratch and maintained and operated manufacturing equipment with belts, chains, gears, gear boxes, motors, bearings, electronic controls, etc., and hydraulic systems too in addition to being responsible for compliance and safety. I know what stress, fatigue and inadequate capacity looks like.

I’m confident in the safety and capabilities of my truck as currently modified.

I’m going to be fully loaded next week towing my camper for a 8500+mile trip from FL to Seattle and many places in between so I’ll scale out before leaving and post my weight ticket.

I know what overweight looks like and I’ve seen some overcapacity loads. My rig is not and based on my calcs, I’m also under the factory GCVW.

All this being said....What “weak link” would you fix, address or change on my build? I have my future mod list, what would yours include???

 

[Ryanmb21]

I don’t think adding shocks, springs, and tires can 80%+ to payload.

What about your frame, wheel bearings, wheel studs, etc? What is your 0-60, 60-0, how about an evasive maneuver at 65mph?

 

[DaveInDenver]

GVWR - 11,000
GCWR - 16,000 no idea what this means
Rear GAWR - 6,390
5th wheel towing capacity - 9,200
Ok now my head is spinning........
Towing capacity - 9200 lbs
Curb weight - 6,500

GCWR - Gross Combined Weight Rating. That's the combination of truck, cargo and trailer.

So my question,
1 - is this saying I can load the truck up to 11,000 lbs AND still tow 9,200lbs? Or,
2 - does it mean total vehicle weight plus trailer cannot exceed 16,000?
If "2" is correct does it matter how weight is distributed bewteen truck and trailer? Ex. can have heavy payload in truck and liter trailer, or can I have almost no payload and heavy trailer?

Number 2, you can be 11,000 lbs in the truck plus a 5,000 lbs trailer. Or you can pull a 9,200 lbs trailer + 6,500 in truck + 300 lbs in cargo (which is essentially just a driver).

 

[Bayou Boy]

I’m a little surprised by the call outs.

Could because I said “by 2500#” instead of TO 2500#?!

My mistake. Sorry about that. To clarify....I think I’ve increased the useful load, or “ payload” to 2500#. So an increase of about 1,105# over stock. As an aside, the Pre Runner from the same year starts out with a payload of 1500# compared to my 1395#. Probably springs and shocks and less the transfer case and front axles, etc?

The prerunner is lighter because it's 2wd. Payload equals GVWR minus curb weight. The shocks and springs will make zero difference on a Tacoma.

I know what overweight looks like and I’ve seen some overcapacity loads. My rig is not and based on my calcs, I’m also under the factory GCVW.

All this being said....What “weak link” would you fix, address or change on my build? I have my future mod list, what would yours include???

The GCWR has almost zero to do with carrying a load on the truck. It assumes there are additional axles in the form of a trailer carrying a significant portion of the weight. If you are not pulling a trailer, you can literally forget that the GCWR exists. The GCWR on my Ram is somewhere around 25,000#.

If you want to carry 2500#, start with a 3/4 ton truck. End of story. There is a very large difference between an additional 1000# on a 2500, 3500, or 4500 and the same additional 1000# on a Tacoma. None of us here are going to change your mind, but maybe the next guy that is thinking about carrying HD loads on a mid size truck will think twice because of this discussion.

 

[NoDak]

So, this is all a bit confusing to a newbe. Specs for a 2012 3500HD long bed chevy I am looking at:

https://www.cars.com/research/chevrolet-silverado_3500-2012/specs/usc20cht47ac0/
GVWR - 11,000
GCWR - 16,000 no idea what this means
Rear GAWR - 6,390
5th wheel towing capacity - 9,200
Ok now my head is spinning........
Towing capacity - 9200 lbs
Curb weight - 6,500

So my question,
1 - is this saying I can load the truck up to 11,000 lbs AND still tow 9,200lbs? Or,
2 - does it mean total vehicle weight plus trailer cannot exceed 16,000?
If "2" is correct does it matter how weight is distributed bewteen truck and trailer? Ex. can have heavy payload in truck and liter trailer, or can I have almost no payload and heavy trailer?

Thanks in advance

1-No. The kingpin weight or tongue weight of a trailer uses up payload. So a 9200lb 5th wheel will have a kingpin weight of around 20% so 1840lb of your payload is used up taking away from that 11,000lbs GVWR and its exceeding your GCWR.

2-Yes. It is a balancing act. You can load your truck to just under or at GVWR with the kingpin weight included but you will be over your GCWR with the 9200lb trailer. If I'm pulling a trailer I figure out my tongue weights or kingpin weights first then decide how much cargo I can carry in the truck (including me, if any passengers and fuel) and make sure I'm under GCW.