How many of you make sure to bring protection when on the trail?
- Thread starter Sleeps In Jeeps
- Start date
easy610
Observer
Mercedesrover said:How do you like the G19? I bought a nice used Kahr P9 a few weeks ago and I just can't get a handle on it. I like the way it feels but I'm just not accurate with it. I think I'm going to trade it in on a new G19 this week. They seem like a good gun for the money and one that I won't mind beating up a bit carrying or stashing in my truck. I also want something with an accessory rail. Doesn't seem like I can go wrong with it.
Also, I see you carry a Kel-Tec for a BUG. I have a P3-AT in hard chrome and though it's not a lot of fun to shoot, it fits with a spare mag in the back pocket of my jeans and I carry it all summer long. Great little gun for the money!
jim
Love the G19. Pound for pound the best fighting handgun around (hey! that rhymed!)...at least in my opinion...and the opinoin of many others.
What other handgun has the reputation for reliability of the Glock G19, is as small and light as the G19 and carries 15 rounds of a serious caliber? None.
SIGs are GREAT, but bulky and heavy.
XDs, MP and 24/7s are nice guns, but I grew up on Glocks and know and like the trigger...
Bergger said:
I only use FIST IWB kydex holsters. Very thin kydex and lightweight. Plus, retains its shape when drawn...hate when the leather holsters closes once you draw from a IWB unless it has the metal lip...and then its really thick.
Go with the standard ultrathin kydex FIST holster. I don't think you will be disappointed.
Bergger
Explorer
easy610 said:I only use FIST IWB kydex holsters. Very thin kydex and lightweight. Plus, retains its shape when drawn...hate when the leather holsters closes once you draw from a IWB unless it has the metal lip...and then its really thick.
Go with the standard ultrathin kydex FIST holster. I don't think you will be disappointed.
Thanks, I'll give it a try.
Maximus Ram
Expedition Leader
a 9mm (Glock or S&W) and the 12gauge tuck away:gunt:
Spikepretorius
Explorer
One of our guys has arranged a "shooting trail" for us this weekend. Proper organised tactical shooting saturday, sleep in the mountains, drive the trail on sunday. I pity any baddy who decides we're a soft target for hijacking. We'll have more weapons between us than we know what to do with.
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calamaridog
Expedition Leader
How many of you coppers carry restraint devices too?
If not, why?
If not, why?
easy610
Observer
calamaridog said:
On me? No. In my vehicle? Yes.
Why not? I don't plan to arrest anyone. The only time you (a BG) will know I am armed and a cop is when I draw down or shoot you (for cause of course...). Otherwise off-duty with wife and kids, no body armor, no immediate communication, no back-up, not instantly ID'd as LEO (no uniform), and a non life threatening scenario....I will be a good witness and stay stealthy.
Been around the block a few times and don't plan to get involved unless it is a lethal force scenario...or you assault me, my wife or kid. Then I can point out the pile of human garbage on the ground to the responding officers after I have beaten them into unconsciousness....no need for cuffs.
Good question. I just stop at carrying restraints. Honestly I could see an arguement to carry them. I just don't.
Fireman78
Expedition Leader
My kind of group.Spikepretorius said:One of our guys has arranged a "shooting trail" for us this weekend. Proper organised tactical shooting saturday, sleep in the mountains, drive the trail on sunday. I pity any baddy who decides we're a soft target for hijacking. We'll have more weapons between us than we know what to do with.
K2RVR
Adventurer
So I am interested in your thoughts on the Kel-tec mentioned above? .380 correct? I have heard of it being used as a BUG and like the small size but have considered the P-11. I don;t know much about the reliability of these however...
I usually carry the Beretta Tomcat .32 in a desantis back pocket holster. I do like that leather one for the Kel-tec, who makes it?
I also carry either the G27 or SIG 226 when travelling. My second round is always more accurate with the Sig, but it is much more difficult to carry full time, and I prefer it to be on me at all times as I travel with my 7YO son and feel that it is the safest place for it to be. Otherwise it is locked in the car which means it is mostly worthless if I need it. So I carry the Glock27 in a Safariland IWB which has nearly the perfect cant for me. I do like the fist mentioned above though.
So other than web articles on the Kel-tec .380, I am interested in real world opinions on it, and feelings on it's benefit over the .32 Tomcat. I realize the Federal HS rounds will have a bit more mustard in the .380 than .32, but I am totally at ease with my Tomcat in functionality, usability, and reliability
Also interested in feelings towards the Sub-2000 Kel-tec, which can use the same magazines as my glock or Sig depending on model, as a vehicle rifle.
I usually carry the Beretta Tomcat .32 in a desantis back pocket holster. I do like that leather one for the Kel-tec, who makes it?
I also carry either the G27 or SIG 226 when travelling. My second round is always more accurate with the Sig, but it is much more difficult to carry full time, and I prefer it to be on me at all times as I travel with my 7YO son and feel that it is the safest place for it to be. Otherwise it is locked in the car which means it is mostly worthless if I need it. So I carry the Glock27 in a Safariland IWB which has nearly the perfect cant for me. I do like the fist mentioned above though.
So other than web articles on the Kel-tec .380, I am interested in real world opinions on it, and feelings on it's benefit over the .32 Tomcat. I realize the Federal HS rounds will have a bit more mustard in the .380 than .32, but I am totally at ease with my Tomcat in functionality, usability, and reliability
Also interested in feelings towards the Sub-2000 Kel-tec, which can use the same magazines as my glock or Sig depending on model, as a vehicle rifle.
easy610
Observer
Not a huge difference in ballistics .32 vs .380 on paper but there is a difference.
.32 around 900fps/100-125 ft/lbs
.380 around 1000 fps/200ft/lbs.
One consideration is around 40% of hollow point projectiles fail to expand for various reasons. The .380 is a slightly larger hole if they both fail to expand.
Second the options for defensive ammo for the .380 is much larger. I carry GoldDot 90 gr.
Third, while you've possibly had no issues, the more powerful the cartridge the better it will reliably function a semi-auto (generally here...).
Fourth, there is almost twice the energy produced by the .380.
I feel strongly that the .380 is my recommended threshhold for defensive purposes. When dealing with new recruits I suggest the .380 or .38spl snubby for BUG. They both carry easily and provide respectable ballistics.
As for the KelTec, I have a P3AT that I've had for a couple years. Honestly it has never failed to function ever. I routinely carry it as a BUG while working in front pocket (DeSantis Nemesis holster) and it is so light and small that it disapprears. In fact I believe it is slimmer than the Tomcat IIRC.
I have recommended the P3AT to others and the ones who have purchased have enjoyed an inexpensive firearm that seems to be well designed and reliable.
.32 around 900fps/100-125 ft/lbs
.380 around 1000 fps/200ft/lbs.
One consideration is around 40% of hollow point projectiles fail to expand for various reasons. The .380 is a slightly larger hole if they both fail to expand.
Second the options for defensive ammo for the .380 is much larger. I carry GoldDot 90 gr.
Third, while you've possibly had no issues, the more powerful the cartridge the better it will reliably function a semi-auto (generally here...).
Fourth, there is almost twice the energy produced by the .380.
I feel strongly that the .380 is my recommended threshhold for defensive purposes. When dealing with new recruits I suggest the .380 or .38spl snubby for BUG. They both carry easily and provide respectable ballistics.
As for the KelTec, I have a P3AT that I've had for a couple years. Honestly it has never failed to function ever. I routinely carry it as a BUG while working in front pocket (DeSantis Nemesis holster) and it is so light and small that it disapprears. In fact I believe it is slimmer than the Tomcat IIRC.
I have recommended the P3AT to others and the ones who have purchased have enjoyed an inexpensive firearm that seems to be well designed and reliable.
Mercedesrover
Explorer
I like that little Kel-Tec. There were some problems with them in the beginning but that seems worked out now. Mine has been 100% reliable out of the box but did a quick "fluff and buff" just for good measure. It's a cheap little gun that you won't mind knocking around. Get one in hard chrome and corrosion problems is a non-issue.
Sure, people will say that even 9mm is a marginal defensive round and .380 is right out, but I still wouldn't want to get hit with one. The small round in your pocket is better than the .45 home in the safe. The P3AT is small and light enough that you'll find yourself carrying it everywhere, either in a holster in your back pocket or just by itself in your front pocket. (Keep in mind that there is no safety on these pistols so I don't carry mine outside of a holster of some sort. Some say the double-action, long throw trigger is enough of a safety, but not for me.)
I run Cor-Bon DPX in mine as the numbers look about the best and the pistol was designed around this round. For practice it will feed WWB without any trouble. Regardless of ammo, the first round of a mag needs a little slap on the back of the slide to feed. I expect this to improve with use.
One thing these pistols are not, is fun to shoot. You won't go to the range and put 300 rounds through it. It's a harsh, snappy little thing. I'll usually empty two mags through it just to keep in practice, then switch to something a little more comfortable!
Kel-Tec has a pretty vocal and committed message board who's members are always willing to answer questions. Poke around and you'll find a ton of information about these P3ATs and others. http://www.ktog.org/
That holster is made by KD Holsters in Florida. There's a pretty long wait but it's worth it.
Kel-Tec also has the new PF9. It's a is a single-stack 9mm that's not much bigger than the P3AT. Again, I'm sure it's not fun to shoot but it would be nice to have a true pocket 9mm.
And for what it's worth, Ruger just came out with an almost exact copy of the P3AT that will be for sale this March. Really, it's so close to the Kel-Tec I can't believe they're getting away with it. Check it out. Ruger LCP.
And yes, I'm very interested in the Kel-Tec Sub2000. Because of this and other forums (and Easy610) I now own a Glock 19. In fact, I haven't even fired it yet. The next addition will be a Sub2000 that takes Glock 19 mags.
jim
Sure, people will say that even 9mm is a marginal defensive round and .380 is right out, but I still wouldn't want to get hit with one. The small round in your pocket is better than the .45 home in the safe. The P3AT is small and light enough that you'll find yourself carrying it everywhere, either in a holster in your back pocket or just by itself in your front pocket. (Keep in mind that there is no safety on these pistols so I don't carry mine outside of a holster of some sort. Some say the double-action, long throw trigger is enough of a safety, but not for me.)
I run Cor-Bon DPX in mine as the numbers look about the best and the pistol was designed around this round. For practice it will feed WWB without any trouble. Regardless of ammo, the first round of a mag needs a little slap on the back of the slide to feed. I expect this to improve with use.
One thing these pistols are not, is fun to shoot. You won't go to the range and put 300 rounds through it. It's a harsh, snappy little thing. I'll usually empty two mags through it just to keep in practice, then switch to something a little more comfortable!
Kel-Tec has a pretty vocal and committed message board who's members are always willing to answer questions. Poke around and you'll find a ton of information about these P3ATs and others. http://www.ktog.org/
That holster is made by KD Holsters in Florida. There's a pretty long wait but it's worth it.
Kel-Tec also has the new PF9. It's a is a single-stack 9mm that's not much bigger than the P3AT. Again, I'm sure it's not fun to shoot but it would be nice to have a true pocket 9mm.
And for what it's worth, Ruger just came out with an almost exact copy of the P3AT that will be for sale this March. Really, it's so close to the Kel-Tec I can't believe they're getting away with it. Check it out. Ruger LCP.
And yes, I'm very interested in the Kel-Tec Sub2000. Because of this and other forums (and Easy610) I now own a Glock 19. In fact, I haven't even fired it yet. The next addition will be a Sub2000 that takes Glock 19 mags.
jim
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