How Much Longer Until Diesel Is Phased Out?

[drewactual]

When you start to see a decline in the heavy truck and equipment as far as new models, then there will be something to be concerned about. The only problem I see with diesel, and it's not a diesel problem at all, is all the regen and DPF components, and the fact that if you open the hood on a heavy you'd be hard pressed to see an engine block. New regs for exhaust come out in '17, and the problem is and will continue to be is the small shop owner, or small op/owners won't be able to keep up, you aren't doing much to the trucks theses days without plugging them into an OE diagnostic system.

there is a law, believe it or not, that requires manufacturers to provide diagnostic software to anyone- it's something like SAE254 or something along those lines... it's there to protect mom-n-pop operations, and in response to an attempt by the auto industry to lock down there vehicles so ONLY dealers could work on them- they actually went and presented this to congress, and 'glory be to whatever higher power you recognize', congress not only stiff armed them, but immediately passed this SEA254(sp?) concept in response... it's one of the few things congress, and the senate has done something right in the last 30 years...

curiously, this is also how after-market tuners jail-break vehicles.

mom-n-pops can order subscriptions to the brand specific vehicle, either by the year, month, or all the way down to one day.

drew technologies is a leader in this industry.. without fortune, they are of no relation to me..

 

[nicholastanguma]

More along the lines of logistical maps for well production based on current and projected supply/demand, his job actually required a related college degree. Our conversations are far more intelligent and do not include the use of words such as "bro" and "ain't", not everyone who works in the petroleum field are mindless monkeys. And although their annual bonus will not be what they had hoped this year, his company is one of the few that hasn't had to lay anyone off due to the decrease in fuel prices.

Um, I wasn't somehow implying that oil workers are stupid rednecks. Apologies. Just relax, man. Make a joke about New Yorkers now, if it makes you feel better--jokes about pretentious New Yorkers are usually true anyway.

 

[MT6bt]

I heard word a few years ago from an individual who is pretty high up in the chain of command over at John deer that they were considering phasing out the diesel in place of a gas engine because the EPA ' S regulations for diesels were so ridiculously strict, it was becoming too difficult to keep diesels on the market. Not sure if it's true, but it sounds legitimate. ...
******** our EPA! They've got more OPEC lobbyists on their strings than the Bush's.

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[nicholastanguma]

I heard word a few years ago from an individual who is pretty high up in the chain of command over at John deer that they were considering phasing out the diesel in place of a gas engine because the EPA ' S regulations for diesels were so ridiculously strict, it was becoming too difficult to keep diesels on the market. Not sure if it's true, but it sounds legitimate. ...

:Wow1:

 

[dlh62c]

Being the owner of a late model diesel truck, I should get my diesel fuel for free. I'm driving around an air scrubber. The air being drawn in, is dirtier than what goes out the tail pipe.

 

[Zeiderman]

there is a law, believe it or not, that requires manufacturers to provide diagnostic software to anyone- it's something like SAE254 or something along those lines... it's there to protect mom-n-pop operations, and in response to an attempt by the auto industry to lock down there vehicles so ONLY dealers could work on them- they actually went and presented this to congress, and 'glory be to whatever higher power you recognize', congress not only stiff armed them, but immediately passed this SEA254(sp?) concept in response... it's one of the few things congress, and the senate has done something right in the last 30 years...

curiously, this is also how after-market tuners jail-break vehicles.

mom-n-pops can order subscriptions to the brand specific vehicle, either by the year, month, or all the way down to one day.

drew technologies is a leader in this industry.. without fortune, they are of no relation to me..

True, but......these are not OE systems, and not all aspects of diagnostic are available, and if they are, they are vague. Case in point, Cat is very particular about their parts and diagnostics. As an International dealer, if one came in with a Cat engine we would pretty much be out.

On the other hand I have heard really good things about the Bosch system, but at 10G, it's a hard pill to swallow, and the Snap On system is even more, and crap. Now you can get OE systems, but even then some parts of the diagnostic system are dealer only, if I'm not mistaken. Mack for instance is about 2G to get into and you need a dedicated laptop, and that just covers the basics. So if you had a small heavy diesel shop, you'd pretty much be out unless you wanted to cough up a pretty good chunk of change to be any make/model.

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[Zeiderman]

Being the owner of a late model diesel truck, I should get my diesel fuel for free. I'm driving around an air scrubber. The air being drawn in, is dirtier than what goes out the tail pipe.

Haha, true that. And that's why they restricted power so you can grab more dirty air.

Thank you for doing your part to help save baby seals.

What do you drive?

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[drewactual]

True, but......these are not OE systems, and not all aspects of diagnostic are available, and if they are, they are vague. Case in point, Cat is very particular about their parts and diagnostics. As an International dealer, if one came in with a Cat engine we would pretty much be out.

On the other hand I have heard really good things about the Bosch system, but at 10G, it's a hard pill to swallow, and the Snap On system is even more, and crap. Now you can get OE systems, but even then some parts of the diagnostic system are dealer only, if I'm not mistaken. Mack for instance is about 2G to get into and you need a dedicated laptop, and that just covers the basics. So if you had a small heavy diesel shop, you'd pretty much be out unless you wanted to cough up a pretty good chunk of change to be any make/model.

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Aye- I was talking light and medium, and the big automotive companies... I'd 'guess' if an engine is being produced by one of the seven big diesel builders to one of the automotive companies they'd have to un-******** those protocols, but.... yes sir, dealing with IH, CAT, Cummins, and larger than a p/u? I'm out of my depth...

by the way, and off subject- EGA on me too.

 

[Viggen]

Eh, VW created diesel vehicles that passed emissions standards AND provided the performance and mileage buyers wanted.

Nothing wrong or dishonest about that, its called innovation.

What is dishonest is .gov attempting to create ex post facto laws and apply same, while dishonestly implying that VW somehow cheated.

Anyhow, diesel isn't going away soon, it will simply become more difficult - DEF, TIER whatever, additional taxes, and so on.

Buy used, keep it going.

What are you talking about? VW DID cheat. They could not pass the EXISTING, nothing ex post facto about them, emissions standards. Not just in the US BUT ALSO in their European markets. In order to do it, they had to severely limit the power and responsiveness of the powertrain to the point where it would have been completely unattractive to an average buyer. The software was so elaborate as to be able to, through the use of various sensors, know when it was being tested versus when it was being used in regular daily occurrences. Depending upon the sensors, it kicked into a different cycle to lower power and responsiveness allowing it to pass. That is cheating.


As to whether or not it will disappear, I think that it will in light duty use.

 

[Zeiderman]

Semper Fi Brother.

 

[The Yak]

Globally, the world relies on diesel engines. The small personal car can manage with gas (petrol), but from the medium sized high mileage delivery vans, trucks, locomotives to the huge ocean cargo ships diesel is the most fuel efficient way to go. This has been proved over decades to be the most fuel efficient way.

We all need to ask ourselves whether we can permit a little extra emissions of certain particulates or gases and use diesel engines, or use less efficient gas (petrol) engines and use up our fossil fuel very much quicker.

 

[nicholastanguma]

I agree it seems unlikely governments would completely ban diesel as a fuel, considering that most of the commercial world runs on the stuff. However, it also seems governments might mandate it for commercial use exclusively.

Somebody on ADVrider speculated that even if they didn't outright ban diesel passenger vehicles organizations like the EPA & CARB could raise fuel economy/pollution numbers in such a way to make driving one virtually unaffordable for the average person--a clever way to accomplish an unofficial ban on something. Don't ban the product directly - just ban the parts/supplies the product needs to operate.

 

[AFBronco235]

I agree it seems unlikely governments would completely ban diesel as a fuel, considering that most of the commercial world runs on the stuff. However, it also seems governments might mandate it for commercial use exclusively.

Somebody on ADVrider speculated that even if they didn't outright ban diesel passenger vehicles organizations like the EPA & CARB could raise fuel economy/pollution numbers in such a way to make driving one virtually unaffordable for the average person--a clever way to accomplish an unofficial ban on something. Don't ban the product directly - just ban the parts/supplies the product needs to operate.

And this is why you hear about diesel engines running on bio-diesel and fry oil. Its cheaper, fewer emissions and smells better to boot. The EPA and CARB limits are more meant to change the source of fuel for diesel engines, not "ban" diesels all together.

As for going to turbine engines, there are several tech issues there. #1 is NOISE! I work around gas turbine generators a LOT for my job and they are LOUD. Not in a screeching way, but you know they're running from !00'+ away. #2 is the lag time on acceleration. It takes a few seconds for the turbines to build up the compression enough to increases RPM under load. #3 is what to do with the exhaust? Granted, the turbine engines in the generators I use are a bit larger than your standard diesel engine, but not by a lot and they put out a LOT of exhaust gas. #4 is Torching, which happens when too much fuel gets dumped into burner cans and you end up with fuel burning out the exhaust and doing exactly what the name implies, turning into a torch that can burn right through exhaust pipes.
I will admit that the actual maintenance and repair wouldn't be too difficult if done right. Your average mom/pop shop can do it right now in fact. The problem is just getting a safe and marketable engine available to the public for public use that is easy and safe to use.

 

[I Leak Oil]

Diesel is used in a lot of marine applications, heavy construction equipment, locomotives, trucking, standby generators of all sorts. Much of the world uses it for smaller vehicles. It's not going anywhere anytime soon, perhaps not until we run out.

Trying to replace it with vegi oil or the like would be devastating to the worlds food supply and farm land. The amount you would have to consistently grow on the same soil would be enormous.

 

[drewactual]

Diesel is used in a lot of marine applications, heavy construction equipment, locomotives, trucking, standby generators of all sorts. Much of the world uses it for smaller vehicles. It's not going anywhere anytime soon, perhaps not until we run out.

Trying to replace it with vegi oil or the like would be devastating to the worlds food supply and farm land. The amount you would have to consistently grow on the same soil would be enormous.

mebbe....

there is a lot of research and development in this field- one fella has an algae he developed that can cover a pond 100'x50' in less than a week, and that can be collected and squeezed for all it's worth, producing something like 20ga of diesel fuel equiv. That is pretty impressive... He thinks it can be further modified to grow even quicker.

but that isn't the point... the point is much more greedy than that, and it's about tax dollars.

can someone reasonably explain why 'eco-gasoline, aka ethanol' is celebrated as an alternative to fossil fuels while reclaiming french fry grease is condemned by the same crowd? My hypothesis is it comes down to intent to keep you pulling in to that station with closely monitored meters which tells them how much $$$ they collect each month. Folks aren't going to be producing gasoline in their back yards (though they can produce alcohol, which a gas engine can be altered to accept, but unless you're in a rural area, everyone around you is going to know what you're up to, and, they have another entire set of laws that can be used to prosecute you for that), but folks CAN and DO produce diesel equiv, quiet comfortably and safely, in their garages. Mr. Revenue man loses $1+ from each gallon produced when that happens, which by their reckoning, is stealing from them... go figure...