How Much Worst is an 80 in an Emergency Maneuver (swerve) than a 100?

[LandCruiserPhil]

If safety is a concern first and foremost you should not buy an RHD in a LHD country?
As for maneuvering, a properly set up 80 can easily outmaneuver a poorly set up 100 and vice-versa.
In the end, don't expect any 7000lb+ 80 or 100 series to handle well under an emergency maneuver.
Also with this type of question, a driving course would be recommended.

 

[Kmrtnsn]

Overthinkin' safety - I think Not!

But what about panic stops? Oh, the horror!!!! And, yes, you’re over-thinking this.

 

[SoyBoy]

But what about panic stops? Oh, the horror!!!! And, yes, you’re over-thinking this.

Nope, don't believe the question reflects any form of overthinking anything more a form of curiosity - If you do not wish to participate in this endeavor - just move on Son - move the f on.

Phil - Simply put - Yes, I am speaking of maneuverability of an 80 to a 100. It's what I wanted to know. My 8000 lbs rig stops in a linear fashion and brakes hard and swerves just fine (go back and review the original question - I have an idea what a heavy rig does feel like) due to proper weight distribution and the 2.0 Fox custom valved shocks that were installed. And surely any vehicle that I purchase will be set up to my standards.

 

[DCGibbs]

SoyBoy,
Safety starts by NOT over-driving the vehicle! - In what ever condition you're in... Period. Clay Croft of Expedition Overland publicly stated, the he thinks the 100 Series is the best LandCruiser... He's had a 62 series, FZJ80, a Tacoma, a Tundra Platinum, and the 100 Series. No vehicle is safe with worn tires, tired shocks and or struts. The most dangerous aspect isn't the vehicle, but how is it loaded. Is everything inside secured, tied down, not Shifting in a panic maneuver. I lost a friend because the Nikon hit him in the back of the head during a roll-over. It (the Camera) shattered the Drivers window. It's not the vehicle, it's the person driving it.... Guns don't kill people, it's the person who pulls the trigger that kills people.
The 62 series in my tag is mine, still a daily driver and fly-rod carrier... DcG

 

[SoyBoy]

& yes, inside vehicle safety however important could be another great question/post/thread! Simply put - this post (in an attempt to remain focused) is an inquiry into said differences between 2 vehicles. More out of general interest now - cuz a few days ago I've made my decision on what I'm buying. (well 95% sure nonetheless!)
My journey to optimize the purchase then build a more nimble off-road vehicle than my current rig. (which I've self-built and have slept in for 15 months in the last 3 years)

 

[alanymarce]

If safety is a concern first and foremost you should not buy an RHD in a LHD country?

I do recognise that you've phrased this as a question, not a statement.

Driving a vehicle with the wheel on the "wrong" side is a matter of driving safely for the situation. Evidently, overtaking needs care, especially if you have no co-pilot, however it's safe as long as appropriate care is taken. On winding roads visibility is fine, since much of the time you can see with no problem; on straight roads you have less visibility, obviously. There are occasions when have the wheel on the "wrong" side helps. I guess we need data on actual accident frequency - I think that it's likely that people driving vehicles with the wheel on the "wrong" side are likely to drive with more care than many of those with the wheel on the "right" side.

We've driven a lot with the wheel on the "wrong" side, and have never experienced a moment of concern. More to the point, if you're exploring East Africa and have a RHD vehicle, are you going to avoid Rwanda because they drive on the right?

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

I do recognise that you've phrased this as a question, not a statement.

Driving a vehicle with the wheel on the "wrong" side is a matter of driving safely for the situation. Evidently, overtaking needs care, especially if you have no co-pilot, however it's safe as long as appropriate care is taken. On winding roads visibility is fine, since much of the time you can see with no problem; on straight roads you have less visibility, obviously. There are occasions when have the wheel on the "wrong" side helps. I guess we need data on actual accident frequency - I think that it's likely that people driving vehicles with the wheel on the "wrong" side are likely to drive with more care than many of those with the wheel on the "right" side.

We've driven a lot with the wheel on the "wrong" side, and have never experienced a moment of concern. More to the point, if you're exploring East Africa and have a RHD vehicle, are you going to avoid Rwanda because they drive on the right?

Good eye but the question mark was incorrect on my part.

Very happy for your positive experience but the facts show you are not the norm. Tons of research on the subject that does not agree with you. IIRC the insurance industry claims a 30% increase in accidents with RHD vehicles in the USA.
All my RHD experience has been in Europe and North Africa where traffic is crazy and driving a RHD was very exciting to say the least.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The premise is ridiculous. Of course an IFS 100 is going to handle better than a solid axle 80. Controlling body roll and camber are the exact point of independent suspension. You don't see live beams on sports cars and what-not. Doesn't mean it's the best suspension for every situation. As to which is better for dynamic handling there's no question.

Articulation, simplicity, ruggedness are separate issues and OEMs aren't as worried about how front ends perform for the knuckleheads who modify their trucks and drive them over the Rubicon. They are concerned that marginal, distracted drivers in rush hour don't roll their SUVs. If IFS wasn't better on a test track they'd do something else, plain and simple.

For example, regarding Volvo big truck IFS:

Volvo IFS System– A stable world first

The assignment was clearly defined: develop a suspension system that would make Volvo Trucks world leader in handling and comfort. Realising the target was...

www.nbmcw.com

"The increase in roll stability is the main factor when it comes to the enhanced feeling of safety," he says.

Safety starts by NOT over-driving the vehicle! - In what ever condition you're in... Period.

That's true, having your truck maintained and driving it safely is more important than the theory. An out-of-alignment IFS with poorly tuned shocks that is over driven is likely to be less (or at the very least no more) safe than a solid front axle with properly functioning suspension operated within its limits.

 

[SoyBoy]

"The premise is ridiculous. Of course an IFS 100 is going to handle better than a solid axle 80." You are 1000% correctomundos!

However, the subject line asks "How Much worse is an 80 in an Emergency Maneuver (swerve) than a 100?"

 

[Todd780]

As if any owner is gonna let you take one out for a proper test (who can blame them) - easier to pick people's brains and experiences - dissect the good from not so good - & move on.

I test drove my 80 before I bought it? I wouldn't buy any vehicle before I test drove it to be honest... ?‍♂️

 

[MOAK]

I’ve had my 96’ 80 for just over 7 years. I have a “ heavy” suspension system from OME, new bushings everywhere, and am quite anal about all maintenance, especially steering, suspension and brakes. The vehicle, needless to say, is very tight. Good driving habits go a long way. You commented you had to make an emergency maneuver for a car pulling up short to make a left hand turn. Hopefully a lesson learned for you and you no longer tailgate.. Good driving habits will also increase your brake pad life as well. Not to brag, but I do get 25-30 thousand miles per set, easily. When we are loaded down with all our gear we scale out st 7,000 lbs. Our 4x6 Offroad trailer weighs 1,000 lbs. Handling? I’ll put it up against any American made pickup truck. I really should be completely transparent. I am a retired driver. I was also a “Smith System” safe driver instructor. Check em out on the web. If you follow the keys, your days of having to make emergency maneuvers routinely, will come to an end. The icing on the cake? Less pm for steering, suspension, brakes and tires.. BTW, the 80 is by far and away the best vehicle I’ve ever owned for doing what we do.

 

[SoyBoy]

I’ve had my 96’ 80 for just over 7 years. I have a “ heavy” suspension system from OME, new bushings everywhere, and am quite anal about all maintenance, especially steering, suspension and brakes. The vehicle, needless to say, is very tight. Good driving habits go a long way. You commented you had to make an emergency maneuver for a car pulling up short to make a left hand turn. Hopefully a lesson learned for you and you no longer tailgate.. Good driving habits will also increase your brake pad life as well. Not to brag, but I do get 25-30 thousand miles per set, easily. When we are loaded down with all our gear we scale out st 7,000 lbs. Our 4x6 Offroad trailer weighs 1,000 lbs. Handling? I’ll put it up against any American made pickup truck. I really should be completely transparent. I am a retired driver. I was also a “Smith System” safe driver instructor. Check em out on the web. If you follow the keys, your days of having to make emergency maneuvers routinely, will come to an end. The icing on the cake? Less pm for steering, suspension, brakes and tires.. BTW, the 80 is by far and away the best vehicle I’ve ever owned for doing what we do. View attachment 624491

"Far and away the best vehicle you've ever owned for doing what you are doing". That says a bunch - I'm almost sold - I test drive mine 80 next week. (800 miles away)

My 8k lbs 2017 Transit has 63k miles of touring USA is on the original brakes are still good - I am very very easy on the brakes. My KO2s got 48k miles on set #1.

Good call on the tailgating - I wasn't that close but - still my bad.

Nice set up BTW.

 

[DaveInDenver]

"The premise is ridiculous. Of course an IFS 100 is going to handle better than a solid axle 80." You are 1000% correctomundos!

However, the subject line asks "How Much worse is an 80 in an Emergency Maneuver (swerve) than a 100?"

Find a tilt table and follow the procedure outlined in SAE J2180 for both. Otherwise the answer can only be an anecdotal "worse."

J2180_199812: A Tilt Table Procedure for Measuring the Static Rollover Threshold for Heavy Trucks - SAE International

The test procedure applies to roll coupled units such as straight trucks, tractor semitrailers, full trailers, B-trains, etc. The test is aimed at evaluating the level of lateral acceleration required to rollover a vehicle or a roll-coupled unit of a vehicle in a steady turning situation. Transient,

www.sae.org

 

[SoyBoy]

Find a tilt table and follow the procedure outlined in SAE J2180 for both. Otherwise the answer can only be an anecdotal "worse."

J2180_199812: A Tilt Table Procedure for Measuring the Static Rollover Threshold for Heavy Trucks - SAE International

The test procedure applies to roll coupled units such as straight trucks, tractor semitrailers, full trailers, B-trains, etc. The test is aimed at evaluating the level of lateral acceleration required to rollover a vehicle or a roll-coupled unit of a vehicle in a steady turning situation. Transient,

www.sae.org

View attachment 624511

Sure - I'll get right on it

 

[djsixbillion]

Do you all go out of your way to be as unhelpful as possible? The OP asked a simple question, which really isn't hard to answer if you have experience driving solid axle and IFS vehicles. A 100-series absolutely handles better than an 80 in emergency situations, given similar mods or lack thereof. Yes I'm a mechanical engineer, and no I don't need to put my truck on a tilt table to determine this. Toyota already spend a lot of money doing just that.

That doesn't mean the 80 is bad - just a different tool. Personally I've owned two different 80's, both of which were heavily modded and both of which were involved in rollover accidents. Are you a better driver than me? Maybe. Probably. Not relevant to the question though.

I currently own a 4th-gen 4Runner (Prado), with very minor modifications and minimal additional weight. It handles MUCH better than an 80 lifted on 35's. This is an uncontroversial statement. Have also owned 3rd and 5th-gen 4Runners, and a Tundra thrown in there. None of them are sports cars, but the 5th-gen with KDSS is by far the most planted on the road.

Not much to add on the RHD aspect having no personal experience, but the statistics are telling. That being said, keeping the weight and COG of any vehicle as low as possible will always help with emergency handling.