How to make a cheap isolated dual-battery setup for $50

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
I always over think electrical projects so I have a few questions
Both batterys are being charged with the one alternator?
Many people with silverados do what they call a "Big 3 Upgrade" with 1/0 gauge wire, would it hurt if I used 1/0 to replace all the 4 ga.?
Here is a link to the Big 3.. it may work http://www.gmfullsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106041&page=6

Won't hurt anything. May not help anything either. Depends on how much load you are putting on the system and if you actually need wire that can carry a lot more amps.

Battery to starter - bigger is better.
Battery to winch - bigger is better.

Alternator to battery - factory wire is probably plenty unless you are running a winch or other big load while the engine is running.
 

Jevy

Adventurer
this is on my "to do" list. If I wanted to do this but add a third battery(charging my battery on my trailer with RTT) while going down the road then would I need two set ups or just hook up both auxillary batteries on the load side of the solenoid? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.
 

Jevy

Adventurer
One question on trailer wiring for charging a battery in the trailer while driving the Jeep. Would it be wise to upside the gauge of the wire feeding to the back solenoid to account for voltage drop? Thanks.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
this is on my "to do" list. If I wanted to do this but add a third battery(charging my battery on my trailer with RTT) while going down the road then would I need two set ups or just hook up both auxillary batteries on the load side of the solenoid? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

If you connected both batteries to one side of the solenoid, you would be wiring them permanently together into a single battery bank.

So, you'd need two solenoids.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
One question on trailer wiring for charging a battery in the trailer while driving the Jeep. Would it be wise to upside the gauge of the wire feeding to the back solenoid to account for voltage drop? Thanks.

Voltage drop is a variable which goes up or down based on load.

So if you had 30a going through the wire, the drop might be X, but if you only had say 10a running through the wire the drop would be a lot less than X.

There will be some voltage drop at the beginning while the battery absorbs more amps, but once your battery reaches a surface charge equal to the voltage of the vehicle's "12v bus", then there won't be many amps flowing into the battery (it'll basically be trickle charging off the bus while the voltage regulator just holds the bus voltage steady) so there won't be much voltage drop at that time.

#10 wire or bigger is probably big enough just for battery charging (I think that's what most factory 7 pin plugs have) . If you plan to run some loads at the same time, you might want to go bigger.
 
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Mukiwa

New member
Im thinking of doing this setup on my xterra in the near future when I instal my Warn M8000. Should I connect the winch to the starting battery or the deep cycle house battery? I cant afford to buy two brand new batteries and was thinking of keeping the one I have right now as either the starting or house battery. Should I buy new Cranking or a new deep cycle battery first? The battery I have right now works fine so I thought I would use it till I can convince my wife I need another one lol.
 

4RunAmok

Explorer
So long as your starting battery and your house battery are the same type. Both AGM, both Flooded Cell... Bad idea to mix battery types, you run the risk of killing the AGM battery because they recover/charge faster than flooded cell.
 

Jevy

Adventurer
I am going to start tomorrow on the install in my Jeep CJ. Question regarding the solenoid mounting location. Is it better to mount it closer to the cranking battery or should it be closer to the aux battery? On my trailer hook up I'm planning on putting the solenoid towards the rear but I would prefer not to mount it on the trailer because that would make quick connecting the charging circuit to the trailer when hooking up/unhooking.
 

bagpiperjosh

New member
I would think this build would be alot more expensive than $60 because in most cases you are going to need alot longer than a 10-15 ft jumper cable to wire all of this to a camper i would imagine.
 

docmaas

Adventurer
Is your alternator voltage sufficient to really charge the sears diehards up to full? I read somewhere that odyssey/diehard require 14.8v to get to 100% and that running AMG batteries for long periods without charging to 100% is not a good idea. Lot's of threads in the boating forums about short life of AGM compared to Gel and lots of theorizing that the possible cause is insufficient voltage while charging along with long periods of not being used.

I have a solenoid system installed by provan on my Tiger. I was thinking that if I went to AGM batteries I would want to put in a dcdc 3 step charger to make sure the batteries get sufficiently charged while driving.

GREAT THREAD and post.

Mike
 

Dan Grec

Expedition Leader
I'm wondering if there is an easy way to put a short time delay on triggering the solenoid?

I figure it would be nice to let the engine start and settle to idle for 10-15 seconds (or whatever) before adding the extra load of charging the second battery onto the alternator.

Any ideas on how I can achieve that?

Thanks, this is awesome, awesome work,
-Dan
 

wrcsixeight

Adventurer
I'm wondering if there is an easy way to put a short time delay on triggering the solenoid?
-Dan


You can put the solenoid on a manual switch, perhaps an illuminated one and decide when to parallel the batteries for charging.

About the charging voltages and fully charging batteries, here is my opinion:

Fully charging any Lead acid battery via alternator is a futile enterprise requiring hundreds of miles of driving, regardless of charging voltages, even prime ones.

By all means utilize the alternator with adequate cabling to take advantage of this power source, but to reach a true 100% state of charge, solar, or a grid powered charger after an outing is the only effective means of accomplishing the task, as going from 95% to 100% can take 12 hours, if one cares to take specific gravity readings and has a new battery fully charged specific gravity baseline to compare it with. Most 'automatic' chargers stop in the 95 to 97% charged range.

Any anybody who thinks an hour or 2 of driving completely charges a depleted auxiliary battery is smoking crack. Idling to fully recharge is even more futile, wasteful, and only occurs in the combo meth/crack smoker's reality.
 

docmaas

Adventurer
Thanks for your response.

I found a couple of interesting points of info you and others running AGM batteries may be interested in:

First from Justin Gobar at Lifeline: http://www.morganscloud.com/2010/08/10/agm-battery-test-2/

"Justin Gobar at Lifeline, who provided us with new batteries, is advising us on how to care for them. Put broadly, there are four ways that will yield different lifetimes based on daily 50% deep cycles:


Fully charge after each discharge. (We understand that is not feasible [in our case].) Estimated life: 6-9 Years.
Fully Recharge at least once a week and equalize once a month. Estimated life: 4-6 Years.
Only recharge to 85% and equalize once a month. Estimated life: 2-4 years.
Only charge to 85% and never equalize. Estimated life: 1 year."

Next from the Odyssey: http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-TM-001_0411_000.pdf (page 11)

"The true dual purpose design of ODYSSEY batteries
is reflected in the cycle life results shown in the graph
below. The two ODYSSEY 65-PC1750 battery samples
were discharged at 25A (the reserve capacity rate) for 108
minutes (80% of 135 minutes, which is the 100% rate for this
battery), rested for an hour then charged for 5 hours at 14.7V
with a 50A current limit. Since five hours are not sufficient to
charge them completely, both batteries were given 20-hour
charges every ten cycles. Sample 1 cycled 581 times and
Sample 2 lasted 544 cycles before reaching end of life.

So it sounds like if you aren't charging your batteries elsewhere at least 10% of the time you are probably running them chronically low. Also if you are running them chronically low you are probably shortening their life, possibly drastically.

How many people here are checking their batteries for charge level?
How many are methodically recharging off the grid/solar at regular intervals.

I think in view of the post to which I am responding here and this additional information my money would be better spent on a good AC step charger used regularly on my RV. I do typically drive 4-8 hours a day when traveling but stop or drive minimally for several days as well.

Note different manufacturers recommend differing charging regimens and different batteries have different lifetime characteristics. Regardless these AGM batteries do require attention if one wants to get the best out of them.

Mike

You can put the solenoid on a manual switch, perhaps an illuminated one and decide when to parallel the batteries for charging.

About the charging voltages and fully charging batteries, here is my opinion:

Fully charging any Lead acid battery via alternator is a futile enterprise requiring hundreds of miles of driving, regardless of charging voltages, even prime ones.

By all means utilize the alternator with adequate cabling to take advantage of this power source, but to reach a true 100% state of charge, solar, or a grid powered charger after an outing is the only effective means of accomplishing the task, as going from 95% to 100% can take 12 hours, if one cares to take specific gravity readings and has a new battery fully charged specific gravity baseline to compare it with. Most 'automatic' chargers stop in the 95 to 97% charged range.

Any anybody who thinks an hour or 2 of driving completely charges a depleted auxiliary battery is smoking crack. Idling to fully recharge is even more futile, wasteful, and only occurs in the combo meth/crack smoker's reality.
 

docmaas

Adventurer
Another interesting thread from ih8mud: http://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/503895-alternator-voltage-booster.html

I checked my alternator today via the lighter plug in the cab. Battery voltage without the engine on is 12.6-12.8 volts. The voltage with the engine at idle is 14.5-14.6. This seems adequate but the above thread discusses using a diode in the fuse to trick the alternator to think more voltage is needed. One case explained resulted in an engel fridge user increasing his runtime from 8-10 hours to 58hours through first a better ground and then the diode trick.
 

Chris2388

New member
If I'm just running dual Batteries with the ability to self Jump and a removable solar charger . Would I need the 200Amp solenoid and 200Amp Breakers or will the 100Amp variants be fine?

Some more Info on my setup I have already replaced all Power and Ground cables and straps to 2/0 Awg welding cable. (includes Starter, Grounds on engine added 2 total of 4, Battery to Fuse panel, Battery to alternator, and Battery to ground both chassis and engine)
New 2 days old from sears Die Hard platinum 34/78 battery ( going to pic up a second for this project).
 

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