Hilldweller
SE Expedition Society
Won't work as well as mine for splitting firewood.
How to move heavy picnic table with 1 person?
- Thread starter PlacidWaters
- Start date
PlacidWaters
Adventurer
Same guy who takes a horse and winch just in case something needs to be moved.
PlacidWaters
Adventurer
Dear Sir,
Following notification that there was a question about the placement of picnic tables in campgrounds, the National Park Service has appointed me to decide exactly where to place picnic tables and then to bolt them solidly to a concrete pad. I'm told you're an expert on this topic. Can you please tell me the most logical place to put the tables? What's stumping me is whether I should place the table where it might be convenient for RVs (of varying sizes), tents, hammockers, bike campers, etc. Kindly advise me on the exact placement, including distance from the fireplace, surrounding trees, the access road, and so on. Also, should the table be placed in the sun for warmth in fall through spring, or in the shade for summer? Please bear in mind that some sites are plowed in the winter, so the tables would need to be out of the path of the plow. Thank you very much for sharing your expertise on this matter.
billiebob
Well-known member
Right on cuz that is exactly what the parks service will do if people keep moving them.
PlacidWaters
Adventurer
Sir, we await your more detailed reply on this urgent matter. WHERE SHOULD WE PUT THE TABLES???
Todd780
OverCamper
Doesn't really stop anyone around here. We find them in a variety of spots. Doesn't really bother me personally.
BritKLR
Kapitis Indagatoris
Maybe this will help you in your new assignment-
Picnic Facilities
Definition [F106.5]
A picnic facility is a site, or a portion of a site, that is developed for outdoor recreational purposes and contains picnic units.
A picnic unit is an outdoor space in a picnic facility that is used for picnicking and contains at least one outdoor constructed feature.
Picnic Units With Mobility Features [F245.2.1 and F245.2.2]
When only one or two picnic units are provided in a picnic facility, each picnic unit must provide mobility features. When more than two picnic units are provided in a picnic facility, at least 20 percent, but no less than two, of the picnic units must provide mobility features.
Picnic units with mobility features don’t have to be identified by signs. Entities should provide information on the location of picnic units with mobility features on Web sites, in brochures, and at bulletin boards or information kiosks at the picnic facility.
Alterations and Additions [F245.2.3]
When altering or adding picnic units to an existing picnic facility, the scoping requirements apply only to the picnic units that are altered or added until the required minimum number of picnic units with mobility features is provided at the picnic facility.
| Example A picnic facility has 10 picnic units. None of the picnic units provide mobility features. Ten picnic units are being added to the facility, for a total of 20 units. In order for the facility to comply with the minimum requirement of 20 percent of picnic units providing mobility features, a minimum of two new units, not four, must be constructed to include mobility features. When any of the existing picnic units are altered in the future, at least two of the existing units must include mobility features. The requirements only apply to the picnic units that are altered or added until the required minimum number of picnic units with mobility features is provided at the picnic facility. |
Dispersion [F245.2.4]
Picnic units with mobility features must provide choices of picnic units comparable to, and integrated with, those available to others.
Elements Within Picnic Units With Mobility Features [F245.2.5]
At least one of each type of element provided within picnic units with mobility features, including outdoor constructed features and parking spaces, must comply with the applicable technical requirements for that element. When more than one of the same type of element (e.g., picnic tables, grills) is provided within a picnic unit with mobility features, at least two of the same type of element must comply with the applicable technical requirements for that element.
Outdoor Constructed Features in Common Use and Public Use Areas [F245.4]
Where outdoor constructed features are provided in common use and public use areas that serve picnic units with mobility features, at least 20 percent, but no less than one, of each type of outdoor constructed feature provided at each location must comply with the applicable technical requirements for the feature.
Outdoor Recreation Access Routes in Picnic Facilities
The scoping and technical requirements for ORARs in picnic facilities are discussed in the section of this guide on ORARs.
or check with any NPS engineering department for the park your asking about and they will have the design plans and measurements of where the access tables go.
To be honest and due to some of the posts here, it appears that some find this topic funny, which is bs. You have a portion of Americans with disabilities that have the right to these parks and amenities just like those that posted here, not to mention the courage to just get outside. Yet, are limited in their physical ability so they need these preplaced amenities to enjoy what your enjoying. Busting locks, cutting chains, moving tables to enjoy your experience impacts their experience.
Kinda like the guy/gal that pulls his/her car into the marked disabled parking spot in front of Starbucks to run inside for their mocha Chaco latte because they justify/rationalize that their time is so more valuable then the disabled persons time yet, the double amputee has to park his access van in the lot and navigate a tight parking spot and parking lot....man, it was always great writing Mr.Mrs. Latte that $250 parking ticket.
Think about it. Safe travels.
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I can certainly understand job satisfaction in writing Mr. Latte that $250 don't-park-in-a-disabled-parking-spot ticket!
And although most of us (I wish and hope it is all of us) can agree that breaking locks and cutting chains is wrong, I think the OP is looking for a way to safely adjust the placement of a picnic table including the return of it when done using it.
While I respect the need to ensure that people with disabilities, whether they are from the US or from abroad, need to be able to use the US federal land campgrounds, I also understand that different agencies have different rules which may vary from location to location within a single agency (Yellowstone NP and Yosemite NP have different rules on food storage due to bear activity). I've made use of many (US) federal campgrounds, and have found some picnic tables without chains, some with short chains, and some with long chains. I see short chains as an indicator of either "We are saving money by using a short chain." or "We want the table here!". I see long chains as an indicator of "We want the table in this general area". I have had federal employees tell me that I can can move picnic tables and that they will help me if I want or need the help. I try to leave a picnic table where it was, or, if I think it has been moved from the intended location, I try to leave it where I think it was intended to be left. (Try saying that a dozen times quickly!
)Perhaps we can agree on "Be respectful and leave the place in good condition!"?
PlacidWaters
Adventurer
The question remains, with all due seriousness, WHERE SHOULD THE TABLES BE PLACED? Drive around any campground and you will see tables in the middle of the site, on one side, on the other side, at the back of the site, up front by the fireplace, in the shade, in the sun, and everywhere else you can think of. If you think people with disabilities should get priority, where exactly should the table be placed for those folks? And how can you possibly know that? Sure, the "mobility feature" referenced in the regulations you posted needs to be accessible, i.e., not jammed up against a tree or bushes or the fireplace and not blocked by rocks, but beyond that, how do you know where a disabled person wants the table? If I move the table from the sun into the shade, how do you know that negatively impacts their experience?
In passing, I've never seen a wheelchair at a campground. I'm sure wheelchair campers exist; I've just never seen any. I support equal access to campgrounds for people with disabilities, but I'm just pointing out that statistically speaking, my moving a table from the sun into the shade has about a 0.000000001% chance of ruining the camping experience for a camper in a wheelchair.
Also note that there there are a great many campsites in federal and state campgrounds built years ago that are not and never will be wheelchair accessible because you have to walk up or down a number of steep steps to get to them. In fact there are a great many sites that aren't even accessible to a car---they're walk-in sites. Would your strict rules about moving tables also apply to those sites? On what grounds?
Let's get sensible here. Are you seriously equating moving a table into the shade with breaking a lock or cutting a chain, which is destruction of property? Is the thought of someone moving a table into the shade really that distressing?? The average distance I move a table is TEN FEET. I'm not dragging tables down into gullies or up mountainsides. On occasion a ranger has offered to help me move a table, which I take to mean that moving tables is not a state or federal crime.
krick3tt
Adventurer
I did not realize this issue was so far reaching. I thought that moving a table a few feet to level it or to make it more accessible would not be a real issue. Most tables I see now are cast concrete and imbedded into the earth so moving them is a moot point.
I carry a small fold up portable camping table and rarely use the campsite table except to lay out and rollup my sleeping bag in the AM.
I carry a small fold up portable camping table and rarely use the campsite table except to lay out and rollup my sleeping bag in the AM.
PlacidWaters, you might have missed the "thumbs up" BritKLR gave my post:
... I see long chains as an indicator of "We want the table in this general area". I have had federal employees tell me that I can can move picnic tables and that they will help me if I want or need the help. I try to leave a picnic table where it was, or, if I think it has been moved from the intended location, I try to leave it where I think it was intended to be left. (Try saying that a dozen times quickly!
Perhaps we can agree on "Be respectful and leave the place in good condition!"?
PlacidWaters
Adventurer
I give you a thumbs-up too, for simple common sense.
