How to pump creek water 60M+ to hot water system?

[Jman99]

On my 4wd I use a hot water system that has an external 12volt self priming pump that is said to be good for pushing up to 20-30M of distance with 1.8M rise. The pump is around 55psi with 6L/min flowrate.
Problem is were we camp the creeks are usually 60-70M away on average, so how can I pump water that far? Preferable keeping it simple and low power.
Normally when on tank water the pump sits close to the hot water system. So can a second pump of similar specs be placed inline at say 30M or at the creek? Will any problems arise? My hot water unit specs say its max rating is near 100psi if that helps
Please help ta.

 

[Alloy]

Yes add more pumps (power). I suspect you'll need 2 more pumps to get any volume at 60-70M.

In terms of pressure / not volume.
- Diaphragm pumps outperform impeller pumps.
- Impeller pumps outperform centrifugal pumps.

The creek intake shold have a large fine mesh screen or diaphram / impeller pumps will be worn out.

A low power solution is to pump the water up into a container and let gravity bring it to the campsite through a hose.

 

[ebel]

You can cascade two pumps, but make sure the 2nd pump isn't damaged if it runs dry for a while.
Another option that might work is to use a thicker hose. The pressure required to pump a certain volume through a pipe is given by the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazen–Williams_equation
The pipe diameter figures into the equation through nearly the 5th power, so a small change in diameter causes a massive change in pressure.
If you plug your values into the online calculator at https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/hazen-williams-water-d_797.html, you'll see that for a 30m pipe of 10mm hydraulic diameter and 0.1l/s flow, you'll get a pressure head of about 7m. If you increase the diameter to 12mm, you have less then half that value, so you can use a twice as long pipe.

 

[ducktapeguy]

Have you tested your 12V pump? I doubt you will get anywhere near those specs, at least not all at once. It might be able to pump 30M, 1.8M, 55psi, or 6L/m, but it'll only meet one of those specs at one time.

I have a 1/2 hp (400watt) sump pump that rated for 2000gph and 16ft of lift, but connected to a 100 ft garden hose with maybe a 2 ft rise it's barely a trickle.

 

[john61ct]

I've lived for decades in places where the girls of the family carted the water by hand for everyone, some over 3 miles from the village well.

Yes OT but IMO not really?

 

[dbhost]

1m ~ 1yd, 1yd = 3ft. So approximately 180ft, with approximately a 5ft rise. That is pretty gently sloping terrain.

Don't make it more complicated than it has to be. Fill your water carriers at the creek, and haul them to camp. There are plenty of lightweight collapsible hand trucks with big wheels that can tackle rough terrain. I have some mobility issues and would have no problems hauling water up from creekside with a hand truck. And it's less than a football field length. Unless there is dense jungle in there I don't get the need for a fancy pump. HOWEVER, let's play devils advoacte.

Why not some sort of hand operated pump like the kind you see in farm well pumps?

 

[dbhost]

As folks may have noted, I have been doing a LOT Of looking into the hot water / shower setup. And here is what I am finding...

#1. For a pump, it is easier for them to push, than to pull. Meaning the pump should be closer to the source than the destination.
#2. I wouldn't put the vehicle in jeopardy by placing it too close to a riverbank etc... unless there is a fording / crossing area, but heven then...
#3. Higher power / flow rate pumps also tend toward higher pressures... It sort of makes sense..

So let's say you need to provide water to a campsite 180 ft away from a water source. That still is a stupid long way to go for a 12V pump.

Maybe something like a Seaflow 5.5 GPM pump https://amzn.to/3pXZowv mounted inline within about 15 to 20 feet from the pickup. Not sure but I am assuming this is a self priming pump.

Some sort of pre filter would need to be put at the pickup end, along with some sort of weight to keep it submerged to prevent dry pumping.

After the pump, run a few feet, adapt from the supply hose, to garden hose fitting, and push it through a drinking water filter, and then convert back to supply hose size, continue on to destination.

At the destination have a storage vessel, and the shower system / smaller pump to pick up locally.

You will need a power box to provide power for the big pump, But consider if you are using say a 27 gallon tote as a storage unit in transit, and a water vessel in camp, you will have a few short minutes before the tub is full... Well worth it if you ask me.

I am pretty sure you COULD adapt this all up directly to a hot water system, but the flow rate would be WAY too high, but I suspect a smaller pump that the hot water system would be hapy with, wouldn't be able to move water well at that distance, especially uphill...

 

[Regcabguy]

Get yourself a professinal grade Reunel 2-gallon garden sprayer. Lengthen the hose and shorten the wand. Paint it black you devil and supplement with boiling water from your coffee pot. 2 gallons wil yield 4 showers if you atomize it sparcely. Baja proven.

 

[ebel]

That pump would work, but it draws a lot of current. 15A max.

If you plug the numbers into the online calculator, you get 150kPa for a 60m 10mm hose @ 0.1 l/s
The pump curve for your pump is here.:

12 Volt On Demand RV Water Pump | SEAFLO Factory Price

SEAFLO 12 Volt On Demand RV Water Pump, 5gpm, 19lpm, 60psi meet and exceed your RV water requirement. With built-in bypass reduce rapid cycling to maintain smooth flow and low nocie. Reliable switch, performance and 2 years warranty.

www.seaflo.com

It will draw about 7A, do the 150kPa=1.5bar, and still be able to do 6l/min (a bit more, but that would increase the pressure by too much).
The pump can only do this if close to the river, it can't suck the water through the hose.
Now the next problem is that you'll need some hefty wire.

Wire Resistance Calculator - Cirris Inc

www.cirris.com

12 AWG is still too thin, 400ft of it has 0.64Ω. At 7A you'd lose nearly 5V, and at 15A 10V. Not sure the pump would even start with such a large resistor in series.

 

[john61ct]

Get a good watermaker like CruiseRO and park at a beach facing open ocean (not a polluted harbour)

 

[m-l_johnny]

 

[NevetsG]

Refer to what dbhost posted and...

Pushing water is easier then pulling it. So a VERY cheap and simple experiment would be to get a 12V submersible bilge pump for a boat (1100gph), a plastic 5gal bucket, (drill lots of small holes in the side of it to help filter out debris), and put the pump inside the bucket and use a heavy rock to sink / hold it all in place. The outflow can be adapted to use a standard hose. Then connect the 12volt self priming pump you currently have to the hose at the campsite.

Keep in mind what a bilge pump is designed for - keeping a boat from sinking - so they want to move a lot of water up and out - quickly. There is a huge variety of them for tiny boats to huge ships, and they are very cheap, proven technology, with a ton of specifications online.

 

[JackW]

carry it up from the creek in one of these....