Hybrid or Gas for full-time camper? MPG guesses?

[PDX_Jay]

The other thing that sucks about the Tundra 3g is the axle ratios. Its 3.31's. If you start throwing 35's and a camper on it I bet it doesnt see much of 9th or 10th gear. My F150 Ecoboost with 3.73's and the 6 speed trans, which is shorter ratios than the 10 speed, shifts a bit more on 35's without a camper on the back. If I was loaded to 8000 lbs all the time and had the aero drag of a camper I don't think it would wanna use 6th much at all.

And to answer your original question, I think you will find that the Hybrid system is not going to work nearly as well with all the crap you have saddled on the truck. I have seen a couple of guys run 35's and mods on Powerboosts and they said the 35's bascially made it so that the truck never enters electric only mode anymore. And the Powerboost has 3.73's and one of the guys had regeared to 4.10's. And the powerboost is a lighter truck to begin with by about 500 lbs. I think you will find that the Hybrid, loaded up to 8000 lbs, and trying to turn 35's, is going to make little use of the electric motor. I'd think you would need to regear at a minimum and not sure how would affect the electric drive porgramming.

Thank you! Most helpful reply yet!

 

[PirateMcGee]

Why are you fixated on a Tundra?

 

[rruff]

Any thoughts?

The old Tundra's EPA matched Fuelly... but all other trucks are way shy of EPA, and I suspect the new Tundra will be also. Maybe 15% better, 16 mpg vs 14 mpg, overall, which is what the F150 3.5 gets. YMMV. That's with no load. The turbos can get thirsty with a load.

1st gear on the Gen 3 is lower than the Gen 2 with its 4.30 diff ratio. And you have 10 of them, rather than 6. And more torque. It'll get around fine with 35s.

You'll be way over payload. I suspect the camper will be a lot heavier than you think... manufacturers of those lie like crazy. And you have not actually made a list of all the stuff and added it up. Just in suspensions and tire upgrades you'll gain 200 lbs. I wouldn't worry about that, but staying under axle ratings is a good idea. The rear axle has lost a lot of beef, so I think you'll want to load up your rear seat.

Stopping? When you really need to stop, traction with the road is the limiting factor. Surely the brakes are stout enough to enable ABS? Otherwise better brakes just allow you to get away with dragging them on long descents, which is something you don't need to do.

Hybrids are good for unsteady loads. Seems that might be helpful offroad, but I've never seen anyone test it.

As others have mentioned, 1st year vehicles are going to have more issues. If you like Toyotas, last gen would be a better bet. There's 15 years of experience with that one. A 1 ton would make more sense.

 

[PDX_Jay]

Why are you fixated on a Tundra?

I'm not actually. Am definitely considering other options. This thread was not intended to be asking for advice on ford/ram/tundra - I was simply trying to see if anyone had thoughts/experience with the fully-loaded hybrid situation, and if hybrid offered any advantage at all, if your truck was at full payload most of the time. still didn't really get my answer, but it might be that people just don't have that information yet.

That being said, I am attracted to the Tundra for the interior (personal taste), and Toyota reliability and resale value, if I change my mind in a few years and want to sell it. Also, in general, I just like Toyotas...haven't owned one since 1999, and currently running a 2005 Suburban as my camping vehicle (love it!) but for work we run all 70 series land cruisers (and a single 200 series). We've just had really good luck with the reliability on them... and although the Tundra is obviously a totally different animal, and more more sophisticated, I'm still optimistic about it.

We'll see - not sure what I'll end up building, but the research is fun!

 

[bkg]

I'm not actually. Am definitely considering other options. This thread was not intended to be asking for advice on ford/ram/tundra - I was simply trying to see if anyone had thoughts/experience with the fully-loaded hybrid situation, and if hybrid offered any advantage at all, if your truck was at full payload most of the time. still didn't really get my answer, but it might be that people just don't have that information yet.

That being said, I am attracted to the Tundra for the interior (personal taste), and Toyota reliability and resale value, if I change my mind in a few years and want to sell it. Also, in general, I just like Toyotas...haven't owned one since 1999, and currently running a 2005 Suburban as my camping vehicle (love it!) but for work we run all 70 series land cruisers (and a single 200 series). We've just had really good luck with the reliability on them... and although the Tundra is obviously a totally different animal, and more more sophisticated, I'm still optimistic about it.

We'll see - not sure what I'll end up building, but the research is fun!

well... considering toyota barely just released the hybrid, it's not exactly fair to think that there's a ton of experience out there of a hybrid in a "fully loaded" situation. And again, you'll be WAY over payload.

Re: toyota reliabilty... no one can comment on the reliability of the 2022 yet. Many have been in the shop with cabs off getting turbos replaced.

Bottom line... you are trying to build from Toyota-out... and already making excuses for being over payload... rather than looking at intended use/payload inward...

 

[billiebob]

Go straight gas.
The hybrid is designed to be efficient as an empty commuter. It has zero ability to increase range once loaded.
Forget the hybrid, forget the hypothetical calculations, they never work as thought out.
Guaranteed, the hybrid will have less payload capability.
Loaded you will not save on gas expense.

And if the manufacturer is not saying fully loaded on the interstate the hybrid will deliver 1mpg better mileage.... it won't.

 

[skrypj]

The old Tundra's EPA matched Fuelly... but all other trucks are way shy of EPA, and I suspect the new Tundra will be also. Maybe 15% better, 16 mpg vs 14 mpg, overall, which is what the F150 3.5 gets. YMMV. That's with no load. The turbos can get thirsty with a load.

1st gear on the Gen 3 is lower than the Gen 2 with its 4.30 diff ratio. And you have 10 of them, rather than 6. And more torque. It'll get around fine with 35s.

You'll be way over payload. I suspect the camper will be a lot heavier than you think... manufacturers of those lie like crazy. And you have not actually made a list of all the stuff and added it up. Just in suspensions and tire upgrades you'll gain 200 lbs. I wouldn't worry about that, but staying under axle ratings is a good idea. The rear axle has lost a lot of beef, so I think you'll want to load up your rear seat.

Stopping? When you really need to stop, traction with the road is the limiting factor. Surely the brakes are stout enough to enable ABS? Otherwise better brakes just allow you to get away with dragging them on long descents, which is something you don't need to do.

Hybrids are good for unsteady loads. Seems that might be helpful offroad, but I've never seen anyone test it.

As others have mentioned, 1st year vehicles are going to have more issues. If you like Toyotas, last gen would be a better bet. There's 15 years of experience with that one. A 1 ton would make more sense.

The Ecoboost and Tundra just did extremely well in TFL’s mileage loop towing 8100 lbs.

The reason the Ecoboosts consume more fuel under load than some V8’s is because they richen to protect the exhaust manifolds and are undercooled, neither of which are an issue for the tundra.

 

[calicamper]

It doesnt get hot enough to burn off dilluted fuel, moisture and other crude in the oil probably. If I had to take a guess I think it was one of the reasons so many people had issues with 1st gen ecoboost timing chains. In my experience, all the people who worked their trucks hard on a regular basis and got them hot have not had issues.

Just change the oil more. And I have heard that the 3.0 Duramax gets hot really fast since its an aluminum block and has all sorts of cooling system wizardry to redirect coolant where its needed.

Not really an oil issue. The modern diesels freak out when they don’t get the emissions hot enough. My old 80’s diesel just needed a new muffler every few yrs plugged up with diesel particulate lol. The new Diesels don’t play that game.

 

[calicamper]

The Ecoboost and Tundra just did extremely well in TFL’s mileage loop towing 8100 lbs.

The reason the Ecoboosts consume more fuel under load than some V8’s is because they richen to protect the exhaust manifolds and are undercooled, neither of which are an issue for the tundra.

LOL
Power today with all the latest generation engines are near maxed regarding energy of the fuel vs mechanical output. Your not going to get 400-500-700-800hp out of any modern dinosaur burner without a common fuel burn rate between similar hp rated engines.

 

[skrypj]

LOL
Power today with all the latest generation engines are near maxed regarding energy of the fuel vs mechanical output. Your not going to get 400-500-700-800hp out of any modern dinosaur burner without a common fuel burn rate between similar hp rated engines.

Correct. But a 6.2L naturally aspirated V8 can run lean/stoich in nearly all conditions while producing 400 hp. A 3.5L TT is facing a bigger challenge to do the same. Unfortunately Fords 3.5L ecoboost is just a spiced up Cyclone and so it tends to suffer under load to protect itself. The first gen 3.5’s would warp manifolds like it was its job. Of all the people on the F150Ecoboost forum with 1st gens, I bet only 2 have not had their manifolds warp. Ive warped my stock manifolds and a set of CRPerfomance manifolds on my truck towing.

Toyota’s 3.5 and the 2.7L Ecoboost run integrated manifolds. They are in the head and cooled by the water jacket. On top of that, the 2022 Tundras cooling system absolutely dwarfs the Ecoboosts. I suspect real world and towing, the Tundra will do quite well.

 

[calicamper]

Correct. But a 6.2L naturally aspirated V8 can run lean/stoich in nearly all conditions while producing 400 hp. A 3.5L TT is facing a bigger challenge to do the same. Unfortunately Fords 3.5L ecoboost is just a spiced up Cyclone and so it tends to suffer under load to protect itself. The first gen 3.5’s would warp manifolds like it was its job. Of all the people on the F150Ecoboost forum with 1st gens, I bet only 2 have not had their manifolds warp. Ive warped my stock manifolds and a set of CRPerfomance manifolds on my truck towing.

Toyota’s 3.5 and the 2.7L Ecoboost run integrated manifolds. They are in the head and cooled by the water jacket. On top of that, the 2022 Tundras cooling system absolutely dwarfs the Ecoboosts. I suspect real world and towing, the Tundra will do quite well.

The Toyota 4.7’s destroyed manifolds too when driven like a teenager with no concept of exhaust heat vs different metals. Hell pilots have been running engines with this in mind for decades.
And I can definitely tell you that the Ford 3.5 has seen lots of tweaks even mid yr tweaks since its first release.
The old GM 6.2 has a host of issues well known issues that haven’t had tweaks to solve btw. Making the old 5.3 a superior engine.

All of which doesn’t matter today because whatever gas engines in new vehicles today are literally the last gas engines that will be designed. They’ll see tweaks and basic changes but thats it the sun has set on combustion engine design.

 

[calicamper]

Oh and the Tundra cooling capacity is actually slightly smaller than the typical ford 3.5 setup. Tundra’s run 17.6ish quarts of coolant
The Fords all run 18-18.5 depending on setup.

You do realize aerodynamics and layout play a big role in this also right? Ford and Gm sell 10 trucks for every 1 Tundra. Toyota is a small fry in the truck biz.

 

[calicamper]

Go straight gas.
The hybrid is designed to be efficient as an empty commuter. It has zero ability to increase range once loaded.
Forget the hybrid, forget the hypothetical calculations, they never work as thought out.
Guaranteed, the hybrid will have less payload capability.
Loaded you will not save on gas expense.

And if the manufacturer is not saying fully loaded on the interstate the hybrid will deliver 1mpg better mileage.... it won't.

As an owner of a hybrid they are great for slow / heavy traffic/ short trips. Which is where dino engines are most inefficient.
For long hauling ie highway trips doesn’t matter loaded or not the hybrid side doesn’t add to the mileage. On the flip side if your doing lots of city use the hybrid is pretty damn good

 

[skrypj]

Oh and the Tundra cooling capacity is actually slightly smaller than the typical ford 3.5 setup. Tundra’s run 17.6ish quarts of coolant
The Fords all run 18-18.5 depending on setup.

You do realize aerodynamics and layout play a big role in this also right? Ford and Gm sell 10 trucks for every 1 Tundra. Toyota is a small fry in the truck biz.

I am not talking about the coolant capacity. I am talking about radiators and overall cooling package.

The 2nd Gen Tundra has a HUGE radiator that dwarfs the F150 and a big ass mechanical cooling fan. The Tundra's cooling system is more in line with an HD pickup where as my 2014 Max-tow F150 has a radiator smaller than my Lexus GX or a freaking 4Runner. The 11-14 Ecoboosts cooling system is pathetic. 2015+ is better but I still run into people all the time who overheat them towing. Literally the 11-14 F150 has the smallest cooling system on this list and the 2015+ is only on the lower end


The 3rd Gen's cooling system looks to be just as beefy. Big radiator, mechanical cooling fan and dual intercooler heat exchangers with their own air flow path and fans.

 

[calicamper]

I am not talking about the coolant capacity. I am talking about radiators and overall cooling package.

The 2nd Gen Tundra has a HUGE radiator that dwarfs the F150 and a big ass mechanical cooling fan. The Tundra's cooling system is more in line with an HD pickup where as my 2014 Max-tow F150 has a radiator smaller than my Lexus GX or a freaking 4Runner. The 11-14 Ecoboosts cooling system is pathetic. 2015+ is better but I still run into people all the time who overheat them towing. Literally the 11-14 F150 has the smallest cooling system on this list and the 2015+ is only on the lower end

View attachment 706798
The 3rd Gen's cooling system looks to be just as beefy. Big radiator, mechanical cooling fan and dual intercooler heat exchangers with their own air flow path and fans.

Yeah and I happen to know my late 2019 3.5 is quite different than the early 2019’s.

I find it funny you make arguments using old models and funny logic vs comparing 2022 models and realizing that cooling capacity is air flow, coolant cycles and yes even heat generation not perceived grill size. Hell even engine parts friction hardening friction reduction/heat reduction and exhaust design along with turbo sizing and location all are coolant related.

Toyota is late to this game they aren’t magically coming up with unknown design ideas.