Hybrid or Gas for full-time camper? MPG guesses?

[skrypj]

Its not about new ideas. It's simply that Toyota builds their trucks to work and Ford builds them for the 95% and the people drive to the office who might casually tow a trailer. Hook a travel trailer up and try to tow through the Rockies in the summer and you'll be sorely disappointed.

I am aware there is more to it than radiator size. But you can't shed heat if the air passing through your radiator saturates. Especially with a motor as potent as the Ecoboost. it can make stupid power at any elevation in any conditions. Bigger radiator means more air to distribute the heat over and larger average delta T's. The Ecoboost overheats because Ford designs it to meet J2807, and thats it. As long as they can get it up David dam at 45 mph they don't care. They all overheat, any year, any tow package. Seen it time and time again on the Ecoboost forums. We have a 60 page thread about it full of people who have issues.

And all it takes is one look at the 2022 Tundra cooling system to realize they didnt skimp. I am not gunna jump through hoops to show you cause you clearly have your mind made up but there are plenty of body off walk arounds to watch. If you happen to have the 2022 Tundra radiator dimensions I would be happy to add them to my list. I bet they look great.

 

[calicamper]

Its not about new ideas. It's simply that Toyota builds their trucks to work and Ford builds them for the 95% and the people drive to the office who might casually tow a trailer. Hook a travel trailer up and try to tow through the Rockies in the summer and you'll be sorely disappointed.

I am aware there is more to it than radiator size. But you can't shed heat if the air passing through your radiator saturates. Especially with a motor as potent as the Ecoboost. it can make stupid power at any elevation in any conditions. Bigger radiator means more air to distribute the heat over and larger average delta T's. The Ecoboost overheats because Ford designs it to meet J2807, and thats it. As long as they can get it up David dam at 45 mph they don't care. They all overheat, any year, any tow package. Seen it time and time again on the Ecoboost forums. We have a 60 page thread about it full of people who have issues.

And all it takes is one look at the 2022 Tundra cooling system to realize they didnt skimp. I am not gunna jump through hoops to show you cause you clearly have your mind made up but there are plenty of body off walk arounds to watch. If you happen to have the 2022 Tundra radiator dimensions I would be happy to add them to my list. I bet they look great.

?‍♂️
And you have no idea how many internal parts are or aren’t designed with new surfacing low friction technology, you have no idea if they need a huge radiator because air flow and engine heat characteristics requires it?
Your argument is like saying it appears larger so must be bigger is probably what the marketing department told the stylist when reviewing the front clip designs. Which case GM must be far superior because their grills are so big they couldn’t find a place to put the headlights ???.
Do whatever you like its clear you don’t really understand load ratings, modern vehicle design. The Tundra will be average and not anything special especially regarding load capacity of which most Tundra owners don’t care. The only Toyota trucks on my street full of multiple renovations are weekend warrior dads. Every single work crew has a fleet of Fords and GMs ie work trucks. They drive them because we’ll they are work trucks not weekend warrior entertainment vehicles.
The guy painting my house has 3 F150’s the oldest 330,000 miles newest 130,000 miles. I asked him if he ever thought about Tundra? He laughed said getting anything done at Toyota costs 3x more and they don’t deal with service vehicles so they want your vehicle for a whole day for a basic thing. Ford as he pointed out the dealer has service vehicles all day long doesn’t screw around charges fair labor and gets you in and out…

Comparing Toyota to GM and Ford is way more than eye balling how big a grill looks?‍♂️

 

[tacollie]

Do whatever you like its clear you don’t really understand load ratings, modern vehicle design. The Tundra will be average and not anything special especially regarding load capacity of which most Tundra owners don’t care. The only Toyota trucks on my street full of multiple renovations are weekend warrior dads. Every single work crew has a fleet of Fords and GMs ie work trucks. They drive them because we’ll they are work trucks not weekend warrior entertainment vehicles.
The guy painting my house has 3 F150’s the oldest 330,000 miles newest 130,000 miles. I asked him if he ever thought about Tundra? He laughed said getting anything done at Toyota costs 3x more and they don’t deal with service vehicles so they want your vehicle for a whole day for a basic thing. Ford as he pointed out the dealer has service vehicles all day long doesn’t screw around charges fair labor and gets you in and out…

That's an anecdotal argument and you know it. I have a buddy that manages a decent size fleet of Ford trucks. They buy Ford because they get them cheap. He's never once said a good thing about a F-150. He drives a Tundra. When I bought my f250 he told me I should have bought a RAM ?

I think the real issue with the EcoBoost motors is turbos. Just because you can pull your trailer at 85 mph up a high altitude pass doesn't mean you should. Same thing happens to people pulling fifth wheels with diesel 1 tons. It'll be interesting to see how the Toyota 3.5 turbo holds up.

The Ford dealership in my area sounds like the Toyota dealership in your area ?

 

[phsycle]

Interesting about the cooler/radiators. I’ve read about Ford doing away with additional auxiliary coolers, as modern transmissions are made to run hotter. Ram and Toyota did the same, I believe.

I live and occasionally tow at elevation. Haven’t had any issues with ecoboosts. I have neighbors with huge boats and 5th wheels. None have had issues. Anecdotal, I know. Just an observation.

 

[calicamper]

Interesting about the cooler/radiators. I’ve read about Ford doing away with additional auxiliary coolers, as modern transmissions are made to run hotter. Ram and Toyota did the same, I believe.

I live and occasionally tow at elevation. Haven’t had any issues with ecoboosts. I have neighbors with huge boats and 5th wheels. None have had issues. Anecdotal, I know. Just an observation.

Toyota doesn’t build fleet vehicles either lol. So yeah large fleets of vehicles treated worse than rental cars. Yeah thats a great source of info lol.

 

[bkg]

Its not about new ideas. It's simply that Toyota builds their trucks to work and Ford builds them for the 95% and the people drive to the office who might casually tow a trailer. Hook a travel trailer up and try to tow through the Rockies in the summer and you'll be sorely disappointed.

I am aware there is more to it than radiator size. But you can't shed heat if the air passing through your radiator saturates. Especially with a motor as potent as the Ecoboost. it can make stupid power at any elevation in any conditions. Bigger radiator means more air to distribute the heat over and larger average delta T's. The Ecoboost overheats because Ford designs it to meet J2807, and thats it. As long as they can get it up David dam at 45 mph they don't care. They all overheat, any year, any tow package. Seen it time and time again on the Ecoboost forums. We have a 60 page thread about it full of people who have issues.

And all it takes is one look at the 2022 Tundra cooling system to realize they didnt skimp. I am not gunna jump through hoops to show you cause you clearly have your mind made up but there are plenty of body off walk arounds to watch. If you happen to have the 2022 Tundra radiator dimensions I would be happy to add them to my list. I bet they look great.

C’mon, Man!

the fanboy-ISM is a bit thick

 

[PirateMcGee]

Back on topic.

Gas. 11mpg. Choose a different platform.

 

[PDX_Jay]

Back on topic.

Gas. 11mpg. Choose a different platform.

This is actually just supposed to be the question -"empty, a 2022 Tundra gas/hybrid have a 2mpg difference on average - with a maxed out payload, would it hang on to that 2mpg difference, or would any boost in mpg disappear"

I think you're saying gas would be better, and it would get 11mpg. Which is worse than the previous Tundra (people with heavier campers on the old tundra are regularly getting 12mpg with 35's). I would hope it would be better than that, but of course, I have nothing to base that on. I was just thinking 14mpg seemed reasonable. Is your 11mpg just a guess, or is there some logic to it? It's fine either way, mine is mostly a guess

Seems though, with the truck at or just slightly over payload (and with added drag from a pop-top camper), dropping from 20 down to 14mpg would be reasonable.

I do think that I'd probably see better mpg in stop/go traffic, and along slow forest roads...but to be honest, that's not where most of the fuel is consumed anyway, so probably not much of a selling point on this.

I think I should just start another topic asking for pros cons of going with a 2022 Tundra w/modified suspension, vs 2500 RAM gas or diesel, vs F250 gas or diesel, and see what people say. I doubt there will be many people rooting for the Tundra but I might give it a shot anyway. If it's crap after a year or two, I can always sell it, and switch to something else. With how well they hold their value, it's actually not that much of a gamble. Anyway, not in a rush on this, I can decide this summer sometime.

 

[PirateMcGee]

My logic is that the 5.7 Tundra gets bad gas mileage unloaded and only slightly worse loaded. There are lots of anecdotes of folks with the 5.7 Tundra adding a go fast or similar camper and only loosing 1-2mpg. My dads 2018 Limited drops from about 17mpg to 11mpg towing a large enclosed utility trailer/camper conversion. Toyotas have always had a bad hp to mileage ratio across the board. Folks that add tires and a camper to the 3.5 taco are getting low to mid teens while being slow...

I've used a lot of the Ford Ecoboosts for work and have a few buddies with them. Stock, unloaded, and no headwind they will pull 20mpg. Real world they end up being in boost more often and the mileage ends up being in the 16-17mpg range. Add a trailer and it drops even more quickly. Several of my friends with the ford 3.5TT have added a go fast, 33s-34" tires, and the ford 2" lift. They now get 15mpg on the interstate even though they drive relatively conservative. Granted all of this is out west with 75mph speed limits and actual elevation changes.

The saying you either get eco or you get boost applies and a camper will put you into boost and likely use more fuel than a V8. An F250 with the 7.3 will likely get the same gas mileage or better with a load compared to a F150 3.5 ecoboost with the same load.

The whole design philosophy of the new Tundra was better gas mileage. It doesn't produce way more power or have way higher payload or towing capacity vs the old one. However, it does have an auto deploy air dam, felt underbody panels for wind deflection, no recovery hooks etc. Even with that focus the mileage at interstate speeds appears to be 18-20mpg....not all that much better than the old truck and similar to the Fords. All of this indicates to me that the engine is going to chew fuel while under load. Given that it's a Toyota it will likely chew more fuel than expected and 11mpg wouldn't surprise me at all. Hybrids don't really help on the highway but do add weight.

I'm a big Toyota fan but they just aren't the ticket for what you're wanting. I ended up going after an ultralight camper set up which allowed me to readily use a 1/2 ton that gets reasonable gas mileage without additional complications (turbos, air dams, grille shutters, cylinder deactivation etc.). For your use case, which I also explored, I think it's really hard to beat an extended cab, 6.5' bed, F350 with the 6.2 and the 10spd auto.

 

[PDX_Jay]

My logic is that the 5.7 Tundra gets bad gas mileage unloaded and only slightly worse loaded. There are lots of anecdotes of folks with the 5.7 Tundra adding a go fast or similar camper and only loosing 1-2mpg. My dads 2018 Limited drops from about 17mpg to 11mpg towing a large enclosed utility trailer/camper conversion. Toyotas have always had a bad hp to mileage ratio across the board. Folks that add tires and a camper to the 3.5 taco are getting low to mid teens while being slow...

I've used a lot of the Ford Ecoboosts for work and have a few buddies with them. Stock, unloaded, and no headwind they will pull 20mpg. Real world they end up being in boost more often and the mileage ends up being in the 16-17mpg range. Add a trailer and it drops even more quickly. Several of my friends with the ford 3.5TT have added a go fast, 33s-34" tires, and the ford 2" lift. They now get 15mpg on the interstate even though they drive relatively conservative. Granted all of this is out west with 75mph speed limits and actual elevation changes.

The saying you either get eco or you get boost applies and a camper will put you into boost and likely use more fuel than a V8. An F250 with the 7.3 will likely get the same gas mileage or better with a load compared to a F150 3.5 ecoboost with the same load.

The whole design philosophy of the new Tundra was better gas mileage. It doesn't produce way more power or have way higher payload or towing capacity vs the old one. However, it does have an auto deploy air dam, felt underbody panels for wind deflection, no recovery hooks etc. Even with that focus the mileage at interstate speeds appears to be 18-20mpg....not all that much better than the old truck and similar to the Fords. All of this indicates to me that the engine is going to chew fuel while under load. Given that it's a Toyota it will likely chew more fuel than expected and 11mpg wouldn't surprise me at all. Hybrids don't really help on the highway but do add we

I'm a big Toyota fan but they just aren't the ticket for what you're wanting. I ended up going after an ultralight camper set up which allowed me to readily use a 1/2 ton that gets reasonable gas mileage without additional complications (turbos, air dams, grille shutters, cylinder deactivation etc.). For your use case, which I also explored, I think it's really hard to beat an extended cab, 6.5' bed, F350 with the 6.2 and the 10spd auto.

THANK YOU! super helpful to have someone talk through it all.

 

[tacollie]

35s with a camper and all gas vehicles get thirsty. Our 08' Tundra with the 5.7 and 33s typically got 12 mpg. My buddies 14' Tundra with FWC weighs 8800lbs and he typically gets 12 in stock size tires. I know a guy with a 3.5 Ecoboost and FWC. He gets 12.5 mpgs. My 6.2 F250 gets 12 mpgs with the FWC on 35s. For the record I have a heavy foot. If I keep it under 65 and don't use cruise control I can get 14.

Overland journal podcast recently talked about the new Tundra. I think they were seeing high 18mpgs out of the hybrid Tundra during their testing. That's completely stock. They said they weren't driving hard but they also weren't trying to maximize mpgs

Hybrids typically help in stop and go traffic. I wonder if they will help in 4lo. The added range would be nice.

Unless you want to wait a few years you will just have to commit and cross your fingers ?

 

[calicamper]

As I said above
Energy vs fuel efficiency is maxed out technically with dino burners today. Mileage today is power needed to move X vehicle. A heavy loaded big tire 400hp 3.5 is going to have the same ish mileage as a old 400hp V8 given they are saddled with the same drag factors.

But an empty modern 3.5 is going to be nearly 2x as efficient as the old V8 truck with similar capabilities. But thats not a factor if your planning maxed out load and big tires. So there is no advantage buying smaller load capacity expensive truck that gets better mileage when unladen.

 

[bkg]

This is actually just supposed to be the question -"empty, a 2022 Tundra gas/hybrid have a 2mpg difference on average - with a maxed out payload, would it hang on to that 2mpg difference, or would any boost in mpg disappear"

I think you're saying gas would be better, and it would get 11mpg. Which is worse than the previous Tundra (people with heavier campers on the old tundra are regularly getting 12mpg with 35's). I would hope it would be better than that, but of course, I have nothing to base that on. I was just thinking 14mpg seemed reasonable. Is your 11mpg just a guess, or is there some logic to it? It's fine either way, mine is mostly a guess

Seems though, with the truck at or just slightly over payload (and with added drag from a pop-top camper), dropping from 20 down to 14mpg would be reasonable.

I do think that I'd probably see better mpg in stop/go traffic, and along slow forest roads...but to be honest, that's not where most of the fuel is consumed anyway, so probably not much of a selling point on this.

I think I should just start another topic asking for pros cons of going with a 2022 Tundra w/modified suspension, vs 2500 RAM gas or diesel, vs F250 gas or diesel, and see what people say. I doubt there will be many people rooting for the Tundra but I might give it a shot anyway. If it's crap after a year or two, I can always sell it, and switch to something else. With how well they hold their value, it's actually not that much of a gamble. Anyway, not in a rush on this, I can decide this summer sometime.

I call complete and utter BS on 12mpg with 35's and heavy camper... as much as I laugh at someone thinking something at or over payload with more drag will only drop 30%

 

[calicamper]

I call complete and utter BS on 12mpg with 35's and heavy camper... as much as I laugh at someone thinking something at or over payload with more drag will only drop 30%

My bet is 9mpg

by the way complete stock f150 heavy payload 3.5 6spd yup older one on stock rubber zero mods with loaded 4whl slide in popup camper 65mph CA to Montana for hunting trips predictable 18mpg every trip. Neighbors dedicated hunting rig nice setup. His brother has the same exact setup only bigger BFG tires otherwise twin rigs side by side. His brother says same trip he gets 14mpg he’s running 34’s BFG KO’s

35-37’s? My money is on 9-10mpg 65mph or slower.

 

[billiebob]

This is actually just supposed to be the question -"empty, a 2022 Tundra gas/hybrid have a 2mpg difference on average - with a maxed out payload, would it hang on to that 2mpg difference, or would any boost in mpg disappear"

I think you're saying gas would be better, and it would get 11mpg. Which is worse than the previous Tundra (people with heavier campers on the old tundra are regularly getting 12mpg with 35's). I would hope it would be better than that, but of course, I have nothing to base that on. I was just thinking 14mpg seemed reasonable. Is your 11mpg just a guess, or is there some logic to it? It's fine either way, mine is mostly a guess

Seems though, with the truck at or just slightly over payload (and with added drag from a pop-top camper), dropping from 20 down to 14mpg would be reasonable.

I do think that I'd probably see better mpg in stop/go traffic, and along slow forest roads...but to be honest, that's not where most of the fuel is consumed anyway, so probably not much of a selling point on this.

I think I should just start another topic asking for pros cons of going with a 2022 Tundra w/modified suspension, vs 2500 RAM gas or diesel, vs F250 gas or diesel, and see what people say. I doubt there will be many people rooting for the Tundra but I might give it a shot anyway. If it's crap after a year or two, I can always sell it, and switch to something else. With how well they hold their value, it's actually not that much of a gamble. Anyway, not in a rush on this, I can decide this summer sometime.

Once you buy whatever come back and tell us the results.
I have zero use for guys just wanting to listen to themsemves spew **********.