Jim K in PA
Adventurer
Google TDI and Samurai. Might be the perfect solo RTW expo rig for high capability and low fuel usage. 
I have been researching the new 4 BT conversion for my JK
- Thread starter DesertJK
- Start date
jeepdreamer
Expedition Leader
I've been reading along here and while I am a huge supporter of diesel/conversions I have to say in this instance I may actually be on the fence. Why? I'm thrifty (ok...cheap) and maybe a little used to the spartan aspects of my jeeps. The thing that kinda confounds me (beyond Jeep/Feep not giving us what we wish for) is why spend such huge money for a new JK then even more into swapping the engine. We all know this is the beginning of the snowball...soon followed by many other drive train upgrades. Unless one were to score the deal of the century on a used JK I just don't see the money spent (not to mention hassles involved in getting it working right and having it pass the Govt.'s nosey ways) ever paying out. Cool factor is sure high...but I'd never be able to justify it.
I don't have issues with either the 4BT or its larger 6cyl brother in a jeep. Simple, able to make stupid power, and built on industrial standards for longevity. But if I were to sit down and do a full conceptual build centered around a diesel it would go a little like this...
Short range/one or two people- 4Bt powered CJ6 or 8/Commando/or LJ. Maybe build a small trailer depending on the distances planned and keep the costs down.
Longer range(more gear) and or more people and maybe a FSJ Wagoneer, Bronco, Blazer...etc.
Add the diesel and its needed HD drive train upgrades and one may not only find they are in it for what the original JK cost, maybe able to see a return on investment vs fuel savings a little faster, have something that will/could pass the Smog nazis easier, and be a very unique vehicle...
I know its a bit of a stray from the OP's question but I just am curious why?
I don't have issues with either the 4BT or its larger 6cyl brother in a jeep. Simple, able to make stupid power, and built on industrial standards for longevity. But if I were to sit down and do a full conceptual build centered around a diesel it would go a little like this...
Short range/one or two people- 4Bt powered CJ6 or 8/Commando/or LJ. Maybe build a small trailer depending on the distances planned and keep the costs down.
Longer range(more gear) and or more people and maybe a FSJ Wagoneer, Bronco, Blazer...etc.
Add the diesel and its needed HD drive train upgrades and one may not only find they are in it for what the original JK cost, maybe able to see a return on investment vs fuel savings a little faster, have something that will/could pass the Smog nazis easier, and be a very unique vehicle...
I know its a bit of a stray from the OP's question but I just am curious why?
blackdmax15
Observer
I was in this situation for a while. My 2008 JK was bought thinking most of it would be scrapped. With that being said after having it for a year my list grew to 40-50k in mods I wanted/thought I would need. Axles+suspension+4bt or hemi or ls was crazy expensive. 24k for the jeep plus 40k for the mods was a little ridiculous. So my solution was to just buy a new 2011 duramax regular cab GMC. Maybe not as offroad capable but comes with a great drivetrain and awesome engine. Most of the guys on this forum aren't rock crawling and I'm not either. I have an 8ft bed and get 17mpg around town and 19+ anytime I get on the highway. With a 36gal tank I get 500+ miles per tank. Most tanks are 600+.
So for the less than the cost of modifications to a jeep (which I would never recoup if I sold it), i got a new truck with a 100k warranty that rides great and gets great mpg that I can also tow my 24ft car hauler with. Not bragging but that was my only solution. If jeep comes out with a factory diesel I'll grab one immediately but until then I am giving up on building the ultimate diesel jeep. Sorry for the rant.
So for the less than the cost of modifications to a jeep (which I would never recoup if I sold it), i got a new truck with a 100k warranty that rides great and gets great mpg that I can also tow my 24ft car hauler with. Not bragging but that was my only solution. If jeep comes out with a factory diesel I'll grab one immediately but until then I am giving up on building the ultimate diesel jeep. Sorry for the rant.
CTD-WAGGY
New member
I've had the 4BT in my Grand Wagoneer for about a year now. I've been on a few 300 mile trips and I lots of 30 mile or so trips to the city and city driving.
PROS: 1. GREAT mileage. I was getting 10mpg with my old 360/727/228 original package. Currently on trips i'm getting 24 to 25mpg. If I did any wheeling the mileage was MUCH worse with the 360, not much difference with the 4BT.
2. I was able to remove tons of crap from my engine compartment. Miles of wires and vac lines, tin cans, electronic boxes etc etc. It looks nice and clean now.
3. the "cool" factor. Lots people want to look at it, talk to me about etc. It's fun sometimes to show off.
CONS: 1. NOISY! what? I can't hear you? what? oh yeah I it's noisy! hahaha! It's not that bad inside the Wagon, but outside it is very noisy.
2. It shakes the hell out of truck at stop lights. I've been playing with the idle speed and it's getting better though.
3. I'm using the 700R4 trans with a hydraulic lock up kit in it. I had it built and the guy says with today's technology they can build a 700R4 to take the torque of the 4BT. Time will tell. I have about 5000 miles on it. It took a lot of tinkering to get it to shift the way I wanted. I used 3 different governors and they just sent me a different valve body (warranty-free) because the hydraulic lock up valve was stuck in the "locked" position.
4. the "cool" factor. Not so great when you are in a hurry. I hate be a ******** so I always talk to people with questions. I'm kind of used to it because I have done several engine swaps in other vehicles.
5. so far I don't have the A/C or heat connected. This will be done soon, but I will have to replace everything because this engine does not have vacuum. I will need all of the controls to be electric. No I don't want a Vintage Aire setup, too much money. I will build something myself.
would I do it again? I don't know. I was really lucky to get the engine cheap. I traded an AR15 rifle for it. The trans was $1000. Transfer-case 241C about 100 or 150 at the junkyard. Custom drive-shafts..$150 each, Locking hubs 100. Various other things a few hundred here and there. Except for the trans I did everything my self. For me it was worth it and I will make my money back in mileage.
there's my .02
Keith
PROS: 1. GREAT mileage. I was getting 10mpg with my old 360/727/228 original package. Currently on trips i'm getting 24 to 25mpg. If I did any wheeling the mileage was MUCH worse with the 360, not much difference with the 4BT.
2. I was able to remove tons of crap from my engine compartment. Miles of wires and vac lines, tin cans, electronic boxes etc etc. It looks nice and clean now.
3. the "cool" factor. Lots people want to look at it, talk to me about etc. It's fun sometimes to show off.
CONS: 1. NOISY! what? I can't hear you? what? oh yeah I it's noisy! hahaha! It's not that bad inside the Wagon, but outside it is very noisy.
2. It shakes the hell out of truck at stop lights. I've been playing with the idle speed and it's getting better though.
3. I'm using the 700R4 trans with a hydraulic lock up kit in it. I had it built and the guy says with today's technology they can build a 700R4 to take the torque of the 4BT. Time will tell. I have about 5000 miles on it. It took a lot of tinkering to get it to shift the way I wanted. I used 3 different governors and they just sent me a different valve body (warranty-free) because the hydraulic lock up valve was stuck in the "locked" position.
4. the "cool" factor. Not so great when you are in a hurry. I hate be a ******** so I always talk to people with questions. I'm kind of used to it because I have done several engine swaps in other vehicles.
5. so far I don't have the A/C or heat connected. This will be done soon, but I will have to replace everything because this engine does not have vacuum. I will need all of the controls to be electric. No I don't want a Vintage Aire setup, too much money. I will build something myself.
would I do it again? I don't know. I was really lucky to get the engine cheap. I traded an AR15 rifle for it. The trans was $1000. Transfer-case 241C about 100 or 150 at the junkyard. Custom drive-shafts..$150 each, Locking hubs 100. Various other things a few hundred here and there. Except for the trans I did everything my self. For me it was worth it and I will make my money back in mileage.
there's my .02
Keith
Last edited:
I bought my JKU Rubicon brand new. It was my first brand new car and I got exactly the configuration I wanted in my third choice color (and have actually grown to like silver more than black or dark green) I put a 50% down payment on it and financed the rest. It is actually a great 4x4 and does everything it was designed to with ease and minimal drama.
The only reason I have even considered a 4 BT or Hemi is to use it for something it was never really designed for. After thinking long and hard about all this, the only thing I might do beside more armor is a Ripp kit. Even that would only be if I found a killer deal on one.
For the money I would spend throwing my lifetime warranty on the drivetrain away with a Hemi, Diesel, or even a Ripp, I can buy a pretty decent Dodge 2500 with a Cummins or a Hemi.
For all the trouble I would have putting a 4BT in a 2008 Jeep and then fighting the Jeeps electronics until I either learn to live with it, or sell it, I could put a 4BT in a J10 or other FSJ pickup and use it around here hauling firewood and plowing snow. In an old Jeep, I would make all the parts myself.
But then it comes down to a "even though I COULD, why WOULD I?" I have enough projects right now that pay money and would rather not spend weeks building a silly project 4x4 when I can finnish another airplane project and actually have something thats worth something for my efforts. I also have enough vintage Italian motorcycle projects in boxes to keep me busy for 10 years if I run out of, or get tired of building airplanes.
So, thanksto all of you who replied, I came to my senses. I think I will get on Craigslist now and see if I can find me a 24V Dodge crew cab short wheel base 4x4 Cummins in Silver.
David
The only reason I have even considered a 4 BT or Hemi is to use it for something it was never really designed for. After thinking long and hard about all this, the only thing I might do beside more armor is a Ripp kit. Even that would only be if I found a killer deal on one.
For the money I would spend throwing my lifetime warranty on the drivetrain away with a Hemi, Diesel, or even a Ripp, I can buy a pretty decent Dodge 2500 with a Cummins or a Hemi.
For all the trouble I would have putting a 4BT in a 2008 Jeep and then fighting the Jeeps electronics until I either learn to live with it, or sell it, I could put a 4BT in a J10 or other FSJ pickup and use it around here hauling firewood and plowing snow. In an old Jeep, I would make all the parts myself.
But then it comes down to a "even though I COULD, why WOULD I?" I have enough projects right now that pay money and would rather not spend weeks building a silly project 4x4 when I can finnish another airplane project and actually have something thats worth something for my efforts. I also have enough vintage Italian motorcycle projects in boxes to keep me busy for 10 years if I run out of, or get tired of building airplanes.
So, thanksto all of you who replied, I came to my senses. I think I will get on Craigslist now and see if I can find me a 24V Dodge crew cab short wheel base 4x4 Cummins in Silver.
David
X-plorenow
Adventurer
and would have to fight to get it inspected and registered...good decision.
Except for those of us that don't want a full size rig... The thing I love most about my WJ, and the better half's JK is the size. I'm a bigger fan of my WJ than her JK, but the ride is more comfortable :-D and I have a lot better towing capacity.
Anyway, I do a fair amount of towing for work, and as much as I love the 3500 megacab cummins that work provides me, I'd love to be able to tow with my WJ. I can tow up to 6500lbs with it no problem, but I can get about 23mpg on the highway with the Ram and about 9 with the WJ which blows. I just am not a fan of the monstrous truck. It's not needed, I never use the bed for anything because of theft possibilities. Just wish I had the 3.0 VM in it or there was an option to convert it.
Anyway, I do a fair amount of towing for work, and as much as I love the 3500 megacab cummins that work provides me, I'd love to be able to tow with my WJ. I can tow up to 6500lbs with it no problem, but I can get about 23mpg on the highway with the Ram and about 9 with the WJ which blows. I just am not a fan of the monstrous truck. It's not needed, I never use the bed for anything because of theft possibilities. Just wish I had the 3.0 VM in it or there was an option to convert it.
Zaskar
New member
reece146
Automotive Artist
$21k for, as quoted in the video, "off-road only".
X-plorenow
Adventurer
Yes, these are the Bruiser folks and I have been in discussions with them. Their current solution is not able to be registered yet which makes it off-road only. They are working with the EPA and hope to have a solution in the next few months, but we will have to wait and see.
If they are succesful we plan on offering them to our customers. Until then they have no value for us.
If they are succesful we plan on offering them to our customers. Until then they have no value for us.
Dan Grec
Expedition Leader
Wow.
You've gotta think getting a VM 2.8 in there would be less than that, even if you had to get one from Europe.
-Dan
reece146
Automotive Artist
X-plorenow
Adventurer
agreed, that is why we are wait and see.
jeepdreamer
Expedition Leader
A 630 DOHC
3000 cc - 6 Cyl. - 24 Valve
Matching refinement with power with ultra low emissions, the 3.0L 24 v has to be the ultimate in diesel engines. This engine is particularly flexible in its design and can be tailored to meet each individual customer's requirements, be it designed for both transversal or longitudinal application.
Technical features include a chain-driven, double overhead camshaft with four valves per cylinder. Each valve is driven by finger followers. Each cylinder has a central direct injector with cooled EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) as an integral part of the cylinder heads. The vacuum pump is incorporated into one of the camshafts for greater efficiency and the oil pump is a rotary vane type.
In 250 CV automotive guise this 3.0L 24 v turbocharged engine leads the way in power, torque, refinement and emissions.
Additionally the engine's packaging means that it can be fitted into surprisingly tight engine bays. VM is very proud of this engine and believe that this is the future of high capacity diesel engines. Today.
Engine A 630 DOHC
Displacement 2987 cc
Cylinders 6 in 60 degree V
Valves 24
Injection Common rail piezo 2000 bar
Max power 184 kW/4000 rpm
Torque 550 Nm/2000 rpm
Weight 220 kg
Emissions EURO 5
3000 cc - 6 Cyl. - 24 Valve
Matching refinement with power with ultra low emissions, the 3.0L 24 v has to be the ultimate in diesel engines. This engine is particularly flexible in its design and can be tailored to meet each individual customer's requirements, be it designed for both transversal or longitudinal application.
Technical features include a chain-driven, double overhead camshaft with four valves per cylinder. Each valve is driven by finger followers. Each cylinder has a central direct injector with cooled EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) as an integral part of the cylinder heads. The vacuum pump is incorporated into one of the camshafts for greater efficiency and the oil pump is a rotary vane type.
In 250 CV automotive guise this 3.0L 24 v turbocharged engine leads the way in power, torque, refinement and emissions.
Additionally the engine's packaging means that it can be fitted into surprisingly tight engine bays. VM is very proud of this engine and believe that this is the future of high capacity diesel engines. Today.
Engine A 630 DOHC
Displacement 2987 cc
Cylinders 6 in 60 degree V
Valves 24
Injection Common rail piezo 2000 bar
Max power 184 kW/4000 rpm
Torque 550 Nm/2000 rpm
Weight 220 kg
Emissions EURO 5
