I think I am gonna build an Unlimited....

[Metcalf]

I have been kicking around the idea of building something like this for a few years now. Right now I would love to be able to build about ten different vehicles, like my Unimog idea, but I think I need to concentrate on something that can do the most things I want. Something that would be good at anything but not great at any one thing. Here was a list of attributes that I have been looking for in one car. There are not too many choices out there and I feel none of them are going to be an off the shelf option.

-Be big enough to carry 4 people and moderate gear ( like a day long climbing trip)
-Be small enough to do trails like the Dusy and the Rubicon.
-Be capable of doing trails like the Dusy and the Rubicon.
-Be able to sleep two people inside.
-Be able to carry two people and week long camping gear in comfort.
-Have the ability to get 20mpg
-Diesel engine.
-Have the ability to run 35-37" tires with minimal lift with tire coverage.
-Tow a small trailer once and a while
-The lighter overall weight the better.
-Not be super exotic, unobtainable, or un-serviceable

I can't really think of any one vehicle that can do all that. There are a few that are close but not really spot on. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I am going to have to build something from a base vehicle. This doesn't bother me too much, but I don't want to have to kill myself.

I will just say this now. As soon as I get going on this, hopefully this coming summer, I just have a feeling they are going to release the JK Unlimited with the new diesel engine!!!! We will see....

I want this vehicle to do everything. Not just a rockcrawler, daily driver, trail rig, or expedition vehicle.

This is the basic idea right now.....please feel free to comment.

-04-06 Jeep Unlimited, manual transmission.

-Diesel engine swap ( most likely a small diesel with 5 speed manual )

-Atlas 4-speed 10:1 transfer case
-1350 front and rear drive shafts.

-As smooth and high clearance of a transmission cross-member I can build

-D44 rear, 35 spline ARB, D44HD gearset, alloy axles, etc
-D44 front, ARB locker and alloy shafts ( I have a few more upgrades in mind )
-17" AEV beadlock wheels ( converted to double bead locks )
-37x12.5x17 tires
-AEV Highline Body kit

-3.25" custom short arm suspension ( with real shocks and bump stops )

-Soft top and half doors to save weight
-Custom built bumpers and rockers...light and simple.
-Custom rear seating, sleeping, storage system.
-30 Gallon fuel tank ( maybe an SVO/WVO system )

There goes 40K or so....ouch.

Comments, suggestions, and input welcome....
Why am I doing this again??

 

[adrenaline503]

Wow, thats quite the list. I think it would make a great little vehicle. After driving my Frontier for a year, I really want a smaller vehicle, something like an unlimited or Cherokee. Are you considering building it up all at once, or more of a gradual pace? And why do you think the cost/benifit ratio for a diesel swap is worth it? Dont get me wrong, I want a diesel too, but to do all that to a brand new vehicle seems like a lot of money.

 

[Metcalf]

adrenaline,

I'm not going to be able to do it all at once. I will have to do it in big stages. I have a pretty good plan on the order of things.....

Stage one- Diesel re-power. The jeep should be able to function just like stock with the new engine ( and transmission ). The stock 3.73 non-rubicon gearing should also work pretty well with the stock 30"ish tires. I would like to prove that a diesel engine can be swapped in that will function just like stock.

Stage two- Atlas and Tummy Tucker. This is the next logical step for me. I think the cross member design is one of the tragic flaws of the jeep TJ/LJ platform. There is a lot of room for improvement. The 4spd atlas is suppose to fit 'better' than the stock 2 speed atlas because the position of the front output portion of the case is in a more factory like position. This puts the output between the two inner front seat mounting bolts. I would really like to have a cross member that had as much clearance as possible. I am entertaining the idea of redoing a bit of the transmission tunnel to make a little more room. Even a stock AEV/Nth Tummy Tucker with an Atlas 4 speed would be a HUGE improvement over stock. The 4-speed 10:1 atlas transfer case will provide all the gearing options I need with regular middle ranges as well.

Stage Three- Suspension and axles. I am a bit of a mechanical designer and engineer. I plan on redoing much of the suspension to make the most of the stock style short arm suspension. This may include some relocation and reinforcement of mounting points of the suspension. I don't think I will need anything more than a 3-3.5" lift to run the 37s with the AEV Highline. I really want a suspension that can do everything...including some higher speed desert stuff without having to worry ( hence the bumps and fox shocks ) I will have to include some axle modifications at this stage to help dial in pinion angles and such. Depending on how the gearing works out with the diesel I may be able to try an interim tire size to help me determine the final gearing needed ( right now with the diesel I am leaning towards 4.56s )

Stage Four- AEV higline kit, tires, and wheels.

I am going to try and work in the bumpers, rockers, and winch before the suspension to get a better idea of final sprung weight.


I'm not planning on doing this to a new off the showroom floor vehicle. There are lots of 04-05 Jeep Unlimiteds in the 15-17K range right now. I have been keeping an eye out for one with a blown motor It is a lot on money no matter how you look at it though....but hopefully a project like this would last a long long time.

 

[adrenaline503]

Oh, I was under the false impression that you were going to get a new floor model. After rereading your original post I have no idea why I though that. If you found one with a blown motor, that would be sweet. I think your plan is very well thought out, and the Jeep should be plenty capable between stages. I look forward to seeing what you do.

 

[Lynn]

My desires, budget (and skills, undoubtedly), are simpler than yours, but after reading about Joaquin's challenges in putting a MB diesel in his Scrambler, I gave up on the idea of a Jeep diesel and am hoping I can just import a MB 240GD. Maybe a military surplus 'Wolfe.'

Kind of 'exotic,' but from what I understand, parts are available from any MB dealer world-wide.

 

[boblynch]

How about starting with a Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo diesel? Most of your mod list could be done to this platform as well.

 

[Sgt Grunt]

That would be a killer set up, I can't wait to see if you go forward with your plans. I have recently sold my built 80 series LC, and I am looking to replace it with something...

 

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

Do a search for my unlimited. It had a lot of what your describing without the diesel swap. I miss it except when it comes to hauling more than two people around. My cage prevented most adults from accessing the back.

Your idea sounds like a blast. I've been contemplating a brute build with a crd diesel. I'm almost to the point of selling my diesel 45 series to finance the build.

jereme

 

[4Rescue]

OH god how I will watch this build with complete envy... I LOVE the LJ!!!

Pretty much an over-built modern day CJ8 (my favorite jeep fwiw). And then you're gonna throw a Diesel in it???? SO COOL!!!!!!!! :smileeek:

Cheers

Dave :safari-rig:

 

[Metcalf]

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

I thought about starting with a CRD diesel grand Cherokee. Though they are fantastic vehicles, for me, I just don't think the front IFS would hold up. I also want to run 35" plus tires and I don't think its that possible on that platform.

I have most of the big pieces figured out, but the bad thing is being a bit of a mechanical designer and engineer, as soon as I get a plan developed I think of more ways to improve it I think I have everything almost sorted out however with this project.

 

[WJinTRSC]

SOUNDS FRIGGIN SWEET!!!!! My only question is are you planning on doing this before or after you arive in your own "respective" Heaven? Sounds amazing; I'd love to watch. I'm curious what diesels you consider and end up w/ cuz I'd love to put one in my WJ. I looked at the 4bt, but a lot of extra weight = ALL new front Suspension, new tranny, + new driveshafts. If I could get something capable of achieving 20-30 mpg that's not so bloody heavy and fits nicely, it'd be sweet!

 

[Metcalf]

I hope to tackle this project during the summer. My girlfriend and I have had to move around like crazy for the last few years. I hope we can settle down to a nice shop....errrrrr house....soon

I looked at the 4bt. I agree, much to heavy and tall. I also looked into...

The isuzu 4bd 3.9L. Its a great engine but the turbo is on the wrong side and the engine is a bit tall and heavy. Its lighter than the 4bt Cummins however.

The liberty 2.8 CRD. It a great choice, but your pretty much stuck with an automatic and you have to redo the front suspension to eliminate the upper control arms. It has been done at AEV and makes a wonderful vehicle. The owner of AEV is getting 20 mpg at 75mph pushing 37s.

Powerstroke 2.8L ( basically an improved 300tdi landrover engine ). These are great little engines, but the turbo is on the drivers side ( not ideal ). There are transmission adapters to just about any GM bell housing pattern. I feel like if you want to do a little extra work this would be a great swap.

Toyota diesel motors. Not really powerful enough and if they are they get a bit big and heavy ( 4 cyl vs 6 cyl stuff )

Dodge Sprinter 5-cyl Diesel. I think this would make a very ideal engine for the TJ platform. It can make great power and gets great mileage. You are stuck with an automatic also. I don't know of anyone that has done this swap yet. The computer wiring might get a little complex?

MB diesels. Not really powerful enough or they get too big and heavy.

I don't want to let the cat out of the bag just yet...but I found an almost perfect solution for an engine. I don't know how feasible it is going to be for everyone to get there hands on in the Us. I think the TJ needs 200hp and 400ft lbs to make it like it was suppose to be while keeping the weight the same as the 4.slow. I also want to keep the swap simple by using a mechanically injected engine....no computers or wiring to foul up. The only thing this engine needs to run is fuel and air.

I am still torn on what kind of installation I want to do. I know of a way to make all the stock gauges work, including the Tachometer. I just don't know if I would be better off eliminating the factory gauges and installing some clean aftermarket gauges that would give accurate up to the minute readings? I like things to look VERY clean and am very OCD when it comes to my modifications.

I am also going to run a manual transmission. Its basically personal preference. I have gone back and forth over the years, but I am thinking manual transmission on the next one. I think I can get any of the earlier jeep transmissions to work from the TJ ( ax-15 or nv3550 ) but to make the stock 6 speed ( the only manual that comes in the LJ ) work I would have to build a custom bell-housing plate for the back of the engine. While this isn't impossible, it would add a lot of time and cost. I don't really know if the stock jeep 6 speed would be up for 400ft lbs either? I do not want to run an NV4500. While this is a viable option, I think its too big and heavy for the jeep TJ. I really want a very flat belly on the jeep and I think the nv4500 would be too tall to allow this.

 

[4Rescue]

Run an Nv45/5600, I wouldn't muck about with a smaller tranny behind any Diesel.

I'm really interested in this build. I was seriously looking into a 1KZ-Te swap into my 4Runner, but it just turned out to be too cost prohibitave for me. Good luck mate, and I can't wait to see you get this started.


Cheers

Dave.

 

[Metcalf]

4rescue,

The nv4500 and especially the 5600 is WAY to big for my jeep. I really want to have the underside of the jeep as flat as possible. I looked at some other transmissions like the g56 6-speed and even some 4 speed manuals.

I've been doing a little transmission research this morning....

The 05-06 Unlimited's have the NSG 370-6. It has mixed reviews. A lot of people complain about the 1-2 shift grinding. Its a Mercedes built transmission however, and they tend to build a decent product. The NSG-370-6 is still used in the international market Jeep JK's, including the heavy 4-door models, with the 2.8L turbo diesel. These engines are rated at 175hp and 295ft lbs. This is a factory application, and in my experience, most manufactures seem to build in a safety factor. I am toying around the idea of just keeping the stock 6-speed in the jeep. I will have to build a custom bell-housing plate to replace the stock one on the diesel, but this isn't impossible. This way I can retain the stock transmission ( and any other jeep 4.0 transmission for that matter ) so I can keep the stock crank position sensor. This along with fooling the cam sync sensor will allow me to keep the stock tachometer working if I want to.

Tranny info....

In 2005, Jeep replaced the NV1500 and NV3550 manual transmissions with the single Mercedes sourced NSG-370 6-speed manual transmission. This replacement afforded Daimler Chrsyler the opportunity to reduce costs and complexity in the production of the Wrangler. The transmission features dual-ratios allowing Jeep to package the six-speed shift pattern within existing Jeep vehicles. First and second gears featured triple-cone synchronization while third and fourth gears feature double-cone synchronization and fifth and sixth feature single-cone synchronization. The overdrive of this transmission is not as good as most 5-speed manual transmissions, however this transmission does a good job of keeping the 4.0 liter motor in it's optimal powerband. The transmission has a 272 ft/lbs torque rating.

The NSG-370 was sourced from Mercedes Benz and the acronymn "NSG" is short for "Neues Shaltgetriebe 370" or translated "new manual transamission. While in the Wrangler the transmission is only rated with a 270 ft/lbs torque rating, it is found in a variety of applications with higher ratings including in the EU spec 2007 Dodge Nitro Diesel with a little more than 300 ft/lbs torque. Specifications include:

* Synchronized six-speed transmission with single rail shift system, hydraulic actuation, dual mass flywheel system
* Approximate length: 24 inches
* Output shaft: 23-spline
* Fluid Capacity: 3.17 pints

Gear ratios for those that are interested....

o First: 4.46
o Second: 2.61
o Third: 1.72
o Fourth: 1.25
o Fifth: 1
o Sixth: .84
o Reverse: 4.06

I haven't heard of anyone breaking the jeep 6-speed....only grinding during shifting. Anyone hear anything different?

 

[kodiak1232003]

4rescue,

The nv4500 and especially the 5600 is WAY to big for my jeep. I really want to have the underside of the jeep as flat as possible. I looked at some other transmissions like the g56 6-speed and even some 4 speed manuals.

I've been doing a little transmission research this morning....

The 05-06 Unlimited's have the NSG 370-6. It has mixed reviews. A lot of people complain about the 1-2 shift grinding. Its a Mercedes built transmission however, and they tend to build a decent product. The NSG-370-6 is still used in the international market Jeep JK's, including the heavy 4-door models, with the 2.8L turbo diesel. These engines are rated at 175hp and 295ft lbs. This is a factory application, and in my experience, most manufactures seem to build in a safety factor. I am toying around the idea of just keeping the stock 6-speed in the jeep. I will have to build a custom bell-housing plate to replace the stock one on the diesel, but this isn't impossible. This way I can retain the stock transmission ( and any other jeep 4.0 transmission for that matter ) so I can keep the stock crank position sensor. This along with fooling the cam sync sensor will allow me to keep the stock tachometer working if I want to.

Tranny info....

In 2005, Jeep replaced the NV1500 and NV3550 manual transmissions with the single Mercedes sourced NSG-370 6-speed manual transmission. This replacement afforded Daimler Chrsyler the opportunity to reduce costs and complexity in the production of the Wrangler. The transmission features dual-ratios allowing Jeep to package the six-speed shift pattern within existing Jeep vehicles. First and second gears featured triple-cone synchronization while third and fourth gears feature double-cone synchronization and fifth and sixth feature single-cone synchronization. The overdrive of this transmission is not as good as most 5-speed manual transmissions, however this transmission does a good job of keeping the 4.0 liter motor in it's optimal powerband. The transmission has a 272 ft/lbs torque rating.

The NSG-370 was sourced from Mercedes Benz and the acronymn "NSG" is short for "Neues Shaltgetriebe 370" or translated "new manual transamission. While in the Wrangler the transmission is only rated with a 270 ft/lbs torque rating, it is found in a variety of applications with higher ratings including in the EU spec 2007 Dodge Nitro Diesel with a little more than 300 ft/lbs torque. Specifications include:

* Synchronized six-speed transmission with single rail shift system, hydraulic actuation, dual mass flywheel system
* Approximate length: 24 inches
* Output shaft: 23-spline
* Fluid Capacity: 3.17 pints

Gear ratios for those that are interested....

o First: 4.46
o Second: 2.61
o Third: 1.72
o Fourth: 1.25
o Fifth: 1
o Sixth: .84
o Reverse: 4.06

I haven't heard of anyone breaking the jeep 6-speed....only grinding during shifting. Anyone hear anything different?

this is a good idea. i think the more of the original rig you can retain the better. easier to service by jeep dealer if you are up ******** creek. I had a tranny go out on me in utah (lifted GMC fullsize blazer) and was able to get it replaced in a day due to me running the standard 700r4 tranny. (we had to go get it in salt lake and bring it to la grange, but they DID have it in stock...)


what kind of mileage estimates (mpg) would you say that you'd get with a diesel?...25mpg?