I want a land rover but....
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David Harris
Expedition Leader
There are some big problems that have cropped up, like the oil pressure debacle and the slipped liner/cracked block syndrome, but usually when I hear some one quote their long list of problems and bad experience with a Rover, it is mostly warning lights, abs, air suspension, small electrical accessories, windows, locks, lights, and cosmetic things that go wrong. Most of that stuff will not stop you on the road, they are just really annoying if you have just spent a lot of money on a new truck, and are faced with a clueless and expensive dealer service department.
My Rovers have been OK mechanically for the most part, but they are always experiencing some niggling electrical fault in the accessories, leaks, rust, etc. I am always fixing some little thing, but if I keep up on the basic maintenance, they seem to just keep going, even though they are beat up old trucks. I work on my own cars/trucks and can do just about anything myself, so I don't mind dealing with the little faults that pop up for the privilege of driving such enjoyable vehicles.
And Rovers are cheap vehicles to buy into used. Before I got a Rover I was looking at a Land Cruiser, and found that people wanted 8-12K for beat up ones with over 200K on them. That just seems like way too much considering the amount of general maintenance any truck with that mileage will certainly require. Yes. The Toyota engines are good, but will still require some work at that mileage. I have never owned a Cruiser but know guys who have FJ80 and older ones, and they are always fixing stuff on them. I had 88 and 90 Toyota trucks, and had engine troubles on both at around the 130-150K mark on the odometer. The 88 had the V6 and needed the valves shimmed due to a defect. The 90 had the 22RE and needed a new timing chain because it was falling apart. My girlfriend's 2000 Corolla had a cracked timing chain housing at 127K, after already being in for a new ECU. So, while Toyota's are generally good, they are vehicles like anything else and have serious problems too, at not so high miles, in my experience.
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David Harris
Expedition Leader
Yes. Head gaskets are a fact of life for Rovers, and it seems like the later ones (D2's) require them more frequently, if the forums are any indication. The 3.9 trucks I have had are both on their original gaskets at 115K and 135K respectively with no signs of problems. My '96 D1 with the 4.0 went to 167K on the original gaskets before they started leaking a little. That is not great by the standard of some other vehicles, but it is not horrific either considering that they would need to be replaced only once in the life of the engine at that rate.
lwg
Member
My advice for what it's worth. Get an LR3. They solve A LOT of the typical Rover issues with much improved reliability. I own both a DII and an LR3 (Have owned several RRC's as well) and they are night in day in every aspect. I still love my old DII but know someday it will be sold and I'll "inherit" the LR3 as my new toy. Hopefully this happens when we get either an LR4 or possibly the replacement model depending on what Land Rover does with it.
chris snell
Adventurer
I don't buy into the whole Land-Rovers-are-pieces-of-crap argument. I have 136,000 miles on my Defender 90 and it runs like a champ. I drove it out to Utah last year; the trip was about 1400 miles and most of them were off-road. When I departed from Colorado, I intended to check the oil at the first fill-up but forgot. When I got back home 1400 rough miles later, I realized that I never opened the hood once. I didn't have a single issue the entire trip and I beat on her pretty good.
Yes, I've spent money on the truck. I've done two head gasket replacements. I've replaced all cooling system components and most of the ignition system, a transfer case, a rear axle tube, and a chassis wiring harness, amongst other small things. The truck is nearly twenty years old and it's to be expected.
Bottom line: a well-maintained Land Rover is as reliable as any vehicle of it's vintage, in my opinion.
Yes, I've spent money on the truck. I've done two head gasket replacements. I've replaced all cooling system components and most of the ignition system, a transfer case, a rear axle tube, and a chassis wiring harness, amongst other small things. The truck is nearly twenty years old and it's to be expected.
Bottom line: a well-maintained Land Rover is as reliable as any vehicle of it's vintage, in my opinion.
Green96D1
Explorer
I don't buy into the whole Land-Rovers-are-pieces-of-crap argument.
Bottom line: a well-maintained Land Rover is as reliable as any vehicle of it's vintage, in my opinion.
I agree with you 100%
ipgregory
Adventurer
I highly agree.
Snagger
Explorer
I echo those last sentiments: find a good one and maintain it properly with regualr services, good quality fluids and high quality parts (ie. not Britpart stuff) and it should serve you well. Like the others said, you will get niggling faults on old vehicles, but LRs seldom leave you stranded. And while we consider LR's reputaion for poor reliability, consider Toyota with their total brake failures, igniting window sitches, steering and hand brake faults and so on, and consider that's on brand new vehicles...
Most on this form fervently disagree with me, but the UK experience of the LR3/RRS has been very poor with respect to reliability and maintenance. They are wonderful cars when they're working, but they suffer a lot of problems with EGR valves, turbo chargers, HEVAC servo motors, air suspension and various ECUs, while they also go through suspension bushes, tyres, discs and pads at a rate that will make your eyes water. Manual transmissions are reliable (as are the automatics), but a clutch change requires the entire body to be removed form the chassis (costing about £1500 in the UK for what should have been be a medium to easy job), and they appear to have weak suspension wishbones (cheap, welded steel pressings instead of heavy forged intems). They're not really viable as a DIY repair vehicle, either - there are just too many ECUs to deal with unless you can afford your own diagnostic and fault clearing tools. In essence, they're great to own under warranty, but will be a real headache when they get older as they have been very poorly designed with respect to maintenance, contrasting heavily with the older vehicles which were astonshingly easy to maintain with their easy access to most parts, simple construction and philosphy of repairable and refurbishable assemblies rather than sealed units.
Most on this form fervently disagree with me, but the UK experience of the LR3/RRS has been very poor with respect to reliability and maintenance. They are wonderful cars when they're working, but they suffer a lot of problems with EGR valves, turbo chargers, HEVAC servo motors, air suspension and various ECUs, while they also go through suspension bushes, tyres, discs and pads at a rate that will make your eyes water. Manual transmissions are reliable (as are the automatics), but a clutch change requires the entire body to be removed form the chassis (costing about £1500 in the UK for what should have been be a medium to easy job), and they appear to have weak suspension wishbones (cheap, welded steel pressings instead of heavy forged intems). They're not really viable as a DIY repair vehicle, either - there are just too many ECUs to deal with unless you can afford your own diagnostic and fault clearing tools. In essence, they're great to own under warranty, but will be a real headache when they get older as they have been very poorly designed with respect to maintenance, contrasting heavily with the older vehicles which were astonshingly easy to maintain with their easy access to most parts, simple construction and philosphy of repairable and refurbishable assemblies rather than sealed units.
jrose609
Explorer
Well said, ChrisI don't buy into the whole Land-Rovers-are-pieces-of-crap argument.
Bottom line: a well-maintained Land Rover is as reliable as any vehicle of it's vintage, in my opinion.
Utah..........best place ever
David Harris
Expedition Leader
Nice photo, Chris.
In an interesting turn of events - the US versions are inherently much more reliable than the UK offerings:
- No EGR problems on the gas V8
- No turbo charger on the gas V8
- No clutch as everything is an automatic
- Maybe it's just a UK thing but I have never heard of a HVAC server motor going bad?
Yes the vehicle is heavy, so wear items (bushings, tires, discs & pads) go very fast (40k). But if you notice, no problems with headgaskets, ABS sensors, ABS modulators, drive shafts, window regulators, etc that have plagued generations of Land Rovers before it.
With an IIDtool/Faultmate and some knowledge, these things go like stink comfortably and reliably.
czenkov
Adventurer
I agree
but I am biased. I have put 24k on my Defender in 2.5 years and I maintain it religiously. My best friend, the LR mechanic, gets tired of me driving up and asking "what is that sound". I drove it to Canada before I did anything to it after buying and it had been neglected by a small business owner during the downturn ( not advisable but hell I rolled the dice and it worked out for me). The next long trip was within 50 miles of the Mexico border (Amado Arizona - Jim Swett rode with me on the course - Fred Monses with the GF) not long after (only issue was A/C quit on the way down and that was just the electric fan in front of the radiators). LR's have their issues, as does Disco's and RRC's. But so do the Land Cruisers of the world (HG's, PHH, etc. etc. - I have owned an 80 and a 62), and the Jeeps(owned 4), and the Isuzu's and the Fords and .....You get the point. Someone on another thread somewhere else said "if you love the brand you deal with the issues inherent to it" - and that applies to all makes. Personally I think LR is the only make out there that can claim to be a true "brand". But again I am biased.
I "religiously" maintain ALL of my LR's because an ounce of prevention....keeps them running. Sage advice for any owner of any vehicle. BTW I daily drive my Defender in all decent weather (March through November).
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Douglas S.
Adventurer
To be honest with you, none of those (with the exception of the ignition system) are small things. If someone were to wander over to the 80-Series forum on ih8mud and post that they had to replace those items, the entire place would be floored. An 80 isn't an expensive vehicle either, so that argument doesn't really fly. $4-5k will get you a clean one with less than 200k miles.
To be fair, I love Land Rovers. My dad has a RRC and I think it's a great vehicle and an absolute joy to drive (When it's working, it has its fair share of issues). I would really like to find a IIA to keep around as a summer vehicle.
I Leak Oil
Expedition Leader
I don't know. To some degree it's a matter of perspective. I would expect an almost 20 year old cooling system to be in need of replacement, no matter what factory it rolled out of.
I don't get the feeling Chris is always gentle with his vehicle. I'm also pretty sure he wouldn't give a crapola about what the good folks on the mud 80 series forum think about him driving a rover....