I will never buy electronic 4wd again.....

[Redline]

I was of the same mind for many years regarding power windows and door locks but 1996 was a big year. Prior to '96 I had owned many regular cab pickups, all but one with crank windows. The one with power was a Dodge 1/2-ton, a juvenile impulse buy. When I ordered my '96 crew-cab F350 I decided that with a four door it would be nice to be able to control the rear windows and door locks from the driver’s seat. So I did order power locks and windows but didn't get the remote door opener (a few times I wish I would have). After almost 12-years but only 125,000-miles every thing still works. One of the rear door locks is getting tired but they have yet to fail.

The one thing that did start acting up early (about 50k) was the intermittent windshield wiper switch on the end of the turn signal lever. I have been living with it for years, some day I will replace the stalk when the wipers stop working.

A part of my problem with things like this is that while they are a convenience to the first purchaser, they're a total PITA to a subsequent purchaser. This applies to electronic 4wd systems but also power windows/door locks, RKE, proprietary nav systems that also control the HVAC, etc.

snip.

 

[powderpig]

Before I would pull the front diff, I would look at the sensor that tells the computer that the t-case is locked I have seen this sensor fail in many different models(toyota same share parts). It is a ball switch and unlike the older model switches, it has a long pig tail on it. It typically will be on the drivers side of the t-case. There is two sensors side by side and at this moment I do not remember which one does which(one blue and one green connectors). This sensor is engaged when the shaft of the shift rail is moved. It sounds like the t-case motor is moving and nothing else is happening. No lights dash, no ADD locking(sign to me that the sensor is not working).
If you are doing your own work, get a EWD and see what is up. I no longer have access to TIS, If I did I would help you with this more. You could disconnect the connector and jump them one at a time to see what happens. Put the switch into 4-high, hear the motor turn, see what happens when you jump the connector that goes to the wiring harness. If dash light up and you hear the motor turn, you found that the ball switch is bad. Good luck

 

[Martinjmpr]

I was of the same mind for many years regarding power windows and door locks but 1996 was a big year. Prior to '96 I had owned many regular cab pickups, all but one with crank windows. The one with power was a Dodge 1/2-ton, a juvenile impulse buy. When I ordered my '96 crew-cab F350 I decided that with a four door it would be nice to be able to control the rear windows and door locks from the driver’s seat. So I did order power locks and windows but didn't get the remote door opener (a few times I wish I would have). After almost 12-years but only 125,000-miles every thing still works. One of the rear door locks is getting tired but they have yet to fail.

That's great but what happens when the next buyer gets to 200,000 miles and one of the windows fails? He's now looking at putting several hundred bucks into fixing an old truck that may or may not be worth fixing, or doing without the windows. That's why I don't like things like that. My one experience with power windows (on a '99 Subaru Outback) was fine, but then again I sold the car at 120,000 miles so I can't really say what would have happened had I kept it to 200,000 miles or so. OTOH, there are Toyota pickup trucks out there with 300k on the clock, everything manual, and they still work fine.

People say "well, manual windows can fail too." I suppose they can, but I've never had one fail and for that matter I've never seen one fail except in a very old International Travelall and that was a back window.

Here's a nice war story that shows why I don't favore electric windows: Back in 1999 I went to the Mitsubishi Montero rally in Utah. We ran Hole In The Rock on Easter weekend. The weather started off clear but it eventually clouded up and snowed on us. One of the other guys had a 4 door Monty a little fancier than mine - he had an auto tranny and power windows. He also had his two kids in the back seat, one was a toddler and one was an infant. Well, he put the window down during the day when it was warm, but apparently the toddler kept kicking the switch and by the time we got back to camp, the switch was broken. Not a big deal, except there was a storm coming and the window was in the "down" position. When I left, he was in the process of cutting a large plastic sheet to cover the open window, hoping that would be enough to keep the weather off his kids until he could get the switch replaced.

Now, that's not an earth shattering crisis, but it's a complete PITA that would not have happened if his windows (like mine) had been manual crank windows. IOW, like the electronic shift 4wd, you have taken something that works, and works fine, and made it susceptible to more problems for the sake of "convenience." Well, that's the kind of "convenience" I can live without.

Hopefully there will be something of a backlash against electronic 4wd shifters and we'll see the re-emergence of the manual shifter. Maybe if Mahindra or some other low-priced company starts selling trucks in the US we'll be able to get the simpler, more trouble-free models if we want them. Otherwise I may have to buy an FJ Cruiser or a Jeep for my next rig since they seem to be the only vehicles around who still shun the electronic transfer case shifter.

 

[powderpig]

Point of reference, the manual shift t-case can have the same problems as this one as well. If the ball switch does not work, the ADD does not work. So unless you opt for the full time system on the FJ, you can have the same problems this gentleman is having. Ball switches have been in the toyota line up since the mid 80's. The do fail once in a while, but not that often. As for the electric motors, they rarely fail as well. It usually is some mechanical part that fails associated with whole part(at least in my experience with toyota stuff).

 

[Cackalak Han]

That's great but what happens when the next buyer gets to 200,000 miles and one of the windows fails? He's now looking at putting several hundred bucks into fixing an old truck that may or may not be worth fixing, or doing without the windows. That's why I don't like things like that. My one experience with power windows (on a '99 Subaru Outback) was fine, but then again I sold the car at 120,000 miles so I can't really say what would have happened had I kept it to 200,000 miles or so. OTOH, there are Toyota pickup trucks out there with 300k on the clock, everything manual, and they still work fine.

People say "well, manual windows can fail too." I suppose they can, but I've never had one fail and for that matter I've never seen one fail except in a very old International Travelall and that was a back window.

Here's a nice war story that shows why I don't favore electric windows: Back in 1999 I went to the Mitsubishi Montero rally in Utah. We ran Hole In The Rock on Easter weekend. The weather started off clear but it eventually clouded up and snowed on us. One of the other guys had a 4 door Monty a little fancier than mine - he had an auto tranny and power windows. He also had his two kids in the back seat, one was a toddler and one was an infant. Well, he put the window down during the day when it was warm, but apparently the toddler kept kicking the switch and by the time we got back to camp, the switch was broken. Not a big deal, except there was a storm coming and the window was in the "down" position. When I left, he was in the process of cutting a large plastic sheet to cover the open window, hoping that would be enough to keep the weather off his kids until he could get the switch replaced.

Now, that's not an earth shattering crisis, but it's a complete PITA that would not have happened if his windows (like mine) had been manual crank windows. IOW, like the electronic shift 4wd, you have taken something that works, and works fine, and made it susceptible to more problems for the sake of "convenience." Well, that's the kind of "convenience" I can live without.

Hopefully there will be something of a backlash against electronic 4wd shifters and we'll see the re-emergence of the manual shifter. Maybe if Mahindra or some other low-priced company starts selling trucks in the US we'll be able to get the simpler, more trouble-free models if we want them. Otherwise I may have to buy an FJ Cruiser or a Jeep for my next rig since they seem to be the only vehicles around who still shun the electronic transfer case shifter.

I definitely agree that manual whatever is more reliable and cheaper to fix than the automatic counterpart. But as technology has become more refined, that gap of reliability and comfort has shrunk by quite a bit. So has the efficiency in mass production parts. Even with the windows, if (IF) the window regulators go out, the replacement parts can be had for pretty cheap (I think the last time I checked, it was something like $70 or so?). I'm willing to live with having to replace a regulator here or there for the comfort of having power windows (I have yet to replace one on any of my Toyota's I've owned).

This is just all a part of progression. More and more of auto components are getting more reliable and at the same time, provides ease of operation. There will be glitches along the way and that is to be expected.

BTW, with your Montero friend, the fault could be placed on the switch, but the biggest fault should be placed on the guy who purchased a Mitsu product. joking

 

[Martinjmpr]

BTW, with your Montero friend, the fault could be placed on the switch, but the biggest fault should be placed on the guy who purchased a Mitsu product. joking

My Monty was dead reliable for over 125,000 miles and 7 years. I did that HITR run when it had almost 150,000 miles on the clock. Other than some minor issues (turn signal lever replaced at 70k, front swaybar bushings replaced around 100k) I never had a lick of trouble with it. Never broke down or left me stranded.

 

[Ramdough]

Does anyone have an old "dead" ADD actuator for my truck?

Does anyone have an old "dead" ADD actuator for my truck (02 tacoma)?

I would like to see if I can modify it/play with it, but I can't use mine (It is my daily driver).

I will pay shipping.

 

[Bighead]

I might...I'll post here if I still have it.

 

[Ramdough]

Cool, I hope you still have it.... Thanks in advance

 

[Brian894x4]

In the pre-Tacos, the ADD defaults to 4WD with the vacuum actuator taking it "out of" 4WD. So, if you lost vaccum or the electrics, the 4WD would still work.

I have no idea how the Taco is set up, but are you sure you really do not have 4WD and that it's the ADD system? Also, have you checked to see if the 4WD light comes on when the ignition is turned on to verify that it still works?

Electrical failures on Toyotas are rare. If it were mine, I would be looking for very simple problems like any plugs or lines that came loose.

 

[Ramdough]

Brian,

I am not 100% on what is wrong, but until I take it apart, I do think that it is the ADD.

The push button 4wd causes the transfer case actuator to move (I know this because I can hear it).

If the truck is in neutral and has 4wd activated, and I roll the truck, the front drive shaft turns. Without the truck in 4wd the front drive shaft does not turn. That indicates that either the transfercase or the ADD is spinning the drive shaft.

If I do a donut in "4wd", my truck does not bind up. This means that either the ADD or transfercase is not activated.

I think I will try to put it in 4wd tonight, jack up the front, and try to manually spin the front wheels (with my wife holding helping on the other side). If teh drive shaft spins, then I know that the transfercase is not engaged. If the drive shaft does spin, then it is the ADD.

I will check all the switches and fuses before I unbolt anything. From what I hear, the ADD actuator failure is not uncommon.

In the pre-Tacos, the ADD defaults to 4WD with the vacuum actuator taking it "out of" 4WD. So, if you lost vaccum or the electrics, the 4WD would still work.

THat makes sense for vacuum systems, because they would probably use a spring to counteract the vacuum. On electronic, the actuator moves based on the voltage direction... no return spring.

 

[Photog]

When you jack it up and manually rotate the tire, make sure you do it from the ADD side. If it is open, the driveshaft won't turn. If you do it from the other side, there may be enough resistance in the gears to rotate the driveshaft.

Try it in/out of 4WD.

 

[Ramdough]

a funny thing happended the other day....

Well, it was raining last week and on a whim I pressed the 4wd button.... my 4wd works now. I excersized the 4wd...on-off-on, etc as often as I get slick roads.

It has not failed on me since then.

I am wondering if some crud got in ther and temporarily froze the actuator or switches.

This is not exactly a good thing.... to have intermitant 4wd.

Any thoughts?

 

[Photog]

It sounds like a bad contact, electrical connection, or crud in the vacuum system. Replace the fuse, if there is one, in the 4WD electrical circuit.

Check the vacuum lines for crud or water inside. Check the ADD actuator for crud in the vacuum chamber, and clean out all the vacuum connections. Check the electrical contats between the switch, transfercase and vacuum switch.

 

[Ramdough]

I don't have a vacuum ADD system.... it is all electric.

I will at some point have to check all of the electrical connections. Asside from disconnecting cables and re-greasing them (and swapping a fuse), I am not sure how else to trouble shoot this. Any thoughts?

Thanks for your input.