If There Were No Emissions Regs, Would A Six Speed Transmission Still Be "Necessary?"

[NevadaLover]

How do the modern automatics do on a steep uphill road in the summer with the A/C on and fully loaded with gear or a popup camper? This would be low speed.
I had an 89 Chevy 3500 350cu and 400 trans,also a 1998.5 Ram diesel with an auto. Both would get hot especially the Chevy. GM had a "fix" that year which was a lever operated sealing dipstick. it would overheat but the fluid wouldn't boil over and out of the dipstick. I know auxiliary coolers are out there but how about stock?
I have a G-56 manual on my truck but do love getting into our Honda Pilot.

The problem with early autos was the cooler, a lot only had a radiator mounted cooler, which also helped them warm sooner, as they got more advanced the coolers were mounted in front of the radiator and kept getting bigger, the new autos hardly ever overheat even on long hills with a heavy trailer as long as they have been maintained some.

 

[billiebob]

How do the modern automatics do on a steep uphill road in the summer with the A/C on and fully loaded with gear

Any idiot can break anything but any intelligent driver can haul anything anywhere without issue. Watch the gauges, listen to the engine, reduce all those luxury loads. NO vehicle is built to do it all in the worst conditions.

 

[CampStewart]

My 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid with ECVT (no belts, no clutches, no friction components) which just speeds up the engine until it reaches equilibrium with the load and throttle demand. If it starts getting excessively hot it starts shutting off cylinders randomly to cool itself by pumping air through the engine. But to be fair that vehicle doesn't tow at all and doesn't punch a very big hole in the air so it's rarely asked for a ton of power even loaded down with camping gear.

So your engine has cylinder deactivation that then pumps air through the engine to help cool it when the engine is being worked hard? That seems to be the opposite of they way I understand cylinderactivation to work. glad I found this out

 

[Deleted member 9101]

How do the modern automatics do on a steep uphill road in the summer with the A/C on and fully loaded with gear or a popup camper? stock?

The 6 speed behind my 2.7 EcoBoost has zero problems with 7k behind it climbing the mountains coming into Cloudcroft NM. The hottest it got was 215, which for a modern transmission is a walk in the park.

 

[tdferrero]

One thing that never ceases to amaze me is how people still find a way to complain about newer cars having more usable power, more gears with better gearing, all the while getting substantially improved gas mileage.

 

[luthj]

One thing that never ceases to amaze me is how people still find a way to complain about newer cars having more usable power, more gears with better gearing, all the while getting substantially improved gas mileage.

I really think they need to do some long distance driving in a early 90s F150 or full sized SUV, preferably with a heavy load. Let me know how that wide spread 4speed and 150hp work out. Hard seats, bumpy ride, loud interior, vague steering.

 

[tdferrero]

I really think they need to do some long distance driving in a early 90s F150 or full sized SUV, preferably with a heavy load. Let me know how that wide spread 4speed and 150hp work out. Hard seats, bumpy ride, loud interior, vague steering.

I drove a 95 Silverado from Connecticut to Florida towing an E30 a few years ago, if I never had to do that again, it'd be too soon.
Meanwhile, the 6-speed F-550s we use at work tow 42' trailers loaded with Gator's and HAZMAT gear effortlessly. We've done California to Florida, and everywhere in between numerous times, I'll take the 20 year newer truck any day of the week.

 

[billiebob]

long distance driving in a early 90s F150

Not sure about the 1990s F Series but my '79 F250 Crewcab was a dream to drive. I wish I could still buy a truck with those wide bench seats today. Gas mileage was only 12-15mpg but the 351M and 4 speed with Bull Low were plenty driveable. .

 

[luthj]

Rose colored glasses, otherwise known as the positive memory bias.

 

[shade]

View attachment 574252

Rose colored glasses, otherwise known as the positive memory bias.

I used to have a pair.
They were the best, but they don't make 'em like they used to.

 

[nickw]

The Ford 10R80 10 spd trans is exceptional as well based on driving my current Ranger and several F150's. Does nothing bad, not annoying and always seems to be in the right gear.

 

[nickw]

Not sure about the 1990s F Series but my '79 F250 Crewcab was a dream to drive. I wish I could still buy a truck with those wide bench seats today. Gas mileage was only 12-15mpg but the 351M and 4 speed with Bull Low were plenty driveable. .

I've always known those as 3spd since the bull low or granny were never used in daily driving. All the 3 spds I've driven are, marginal, to say the least unless it's a big block and or a truck that doesn't have a big load attached to it.

 

[tdferrero]

The 2.5L has its engine temp. probe in the head itself rather than measuring water temp - so the reported water temperature on OBD is an inferred number rather than what is directly measured. The cylinder deactivation as a cooling strategy only comes into play during an overheat condition but it also means you can limp home with no coolant in the engine. A bit weird, but cool.

The Hemi in my Ram deactivates four cylinders during low load conditions to reduce pumping losses and achieve better fuel efficiency. That sort of cylinder deactivation wouldn't be necessary in the Escape Hybrid because it shuts off the entire combustion engine under low load conditions and drives on stored electricity.

View attachment 574335

Okay that is pretty cool. I didn't even know cylinder deactivation as a cooling strategy was used by Ford. Do you know of any other models they use it with?

 

[Mos6502]

Whether it's the DRZ400 or the Jeep TJ or the Samurai or the Land Cruiser or the HD Sportster or any other vintage-to-almost-modern vehicle with a five speed transmission it seems like the majority of operators are constantly clamoring for a sixth gear.

Are they? And if so, why?

Each one of these mills has much power potential hidden away behind the factory's lean carb settings, restrictive exhaust, poor head flow, and low compression ratio.

Everyone knows that such factory machines have to be strangled a bit, often in fact a lot of bit, to pass the emissions regulations for the markets in which they're sold, and so no factory engine is truly at its peak performance level.

But if an engine is operating at its best capacity won't it be making enough broad spectrum power from idle to redline that a 5 speed tran coupled with higher final drive gearing would essentially be the same thing as a strangled engine that has to use a 6 speed to compensate for the strangled power?

Do you mean higher gearing, as in numerically higher (ie. more revs for a given road speed)?

I've only ever owned one car with a 5 speed, and 5th gear was pretty much just for highway use. I'm not sure what advantage, if any, a sixth gear would offer a vehicle. I think the big reason we have so many gears now is really because of traffic, not for any inherent mechanical need. The old Ford Model T, with 20hp, got by with a 2 speed transmission. But there was no traffic in 1908. It didn't bother anybody if you were gradually losing speed going up hills in top gear, then had to downshift to 1st to make it the rest of the way, grinding up at 10mph. The car didn't need an intermediate gear, even if driver's may have liked one. By the 1960's, traffic was such that 3 speeds was becoming a bit of a problem. By the 80's, 4 speeds wasn't sufficient for the demands of traffic. There is a hint of planned obsolescence about the whole adding more speeds to transmissions every decade, but really it's because the traffic, not the vehicle, demands it.

 

[shade]

I've had a 6MT in a sporty car. 1-5 were geared to keep the engine at peak output, with 6th used for highway cruising. Fuel consumption would've been higher without 6th, as well as engine noise. Fewer gears would've made it more difficult to keep the engine rpms high enough to keep it at peak output, so in that case, six gears made good sense.