INEOS Grenadier

[Highlander]

"trade dress."

Interesting.
Is it even possible to make a utilitarian vehicle with high off-road capabilities and not look like Defender or G-wagon or TLC?
It's like trying to build a hunting log cabin and trying not make it look like a hunting log cabin. It is really hard.

On top of this that model of Defender has been off the production like 5-6 years.

I am praying the JLR will have their butt kicked. I wish them bad.
They promised us the return of Sir Sean Connery and instead they gave us Justin Bibber.

 

[Highlander]

When I hear Land Rover talking about adventures I am like uncle Jun... speechless and confused what they are talking about.

 

[Todd780]

Due to the JLR Defender likeness issues, INEOS has redesigned the Grenadier. Should be good to go now right?



I don't think anyone will have an issue with this version.....

 

[nickw]

Due to the JLR Defender likeness issues, INEOS has redesigned the Grenadier. Should be good to go now right?

View attachment 688505

I don't think anyone will have an issue with this version.....

LOL

I think the issue likely has something to do with the fact that Ineos originally tried to buy rights for the Defender (but couldn't) and according to the CEO it was basically a copy of according to this:

Ineos Grenadier – The Old-School Defender That Land Rover Doesn’t Make Anymore

If you enjoy the charm and persona of the erstwhile Defender, the Ineos Grenadier will make you drool

www.topspeed.com

" Ineos’ CEO, Sir Jim Ratcliffe, was apparently in the pub with his friends one day and was discussing the demise of the old Land Rover Defender. Since Land Rover had no plans to revive it in the same retro style, he tried to get hold of the right from Land Rover. But, the latter refused and Mr. Ratcliffe decided to build a new one from the ground up that’s heavily inspired by the old Defender, thus embarking on the group’s journey as an automaker. "

Although it goes on to say:

"Ineos’ head of design, Toby Ecuyer, has noted in the past that the Grenadier is not inspired just by the Defender. It is also inspired by the Nissan Patrol, Toyota Hilux, Toyota FJ40 (Land Cruiser), Ford Bronco, other Jeeps and Land Rovers, and even vans, lorries, Unimogs, military vehicles, and so on."

They may have had a lecture from the legal team between the two comments?

 

[Todd780]

Although it goes on to say:

"Ineos’ head of design, Toby Ecuyer, has noted in the past that the Grenadier is not inspired just by the Defender. It is also inspired by the Nissan Patrol, Toyota Hilux, Toyota FJ40 (Land Cruiser), Ford Bronco, other Jeeps and Land Rovers, and even vans, lorries, Unimogs, military vehicles, and so on."

They may have had a lecture from the legal team between the two comments?

Yes, that's very likely.

 

[Junx]

Here is an interesting analysis on automotive trade dress from an actual lawyer. It is interesting to note that in this case, Avanti conceded to GM's demands.

This was a different case, but interesting none the less. I don't see Ineos giving up quite so easily.

https://www.venable.com/files/Publication/001ef38a-4a58-4455-91de-c2094f85104c/Presentation/PublicationAttachment/bb76ad56-cd72-4309-8459-2ce009123156/1104.pdf

Concessions by Hummer H2 Competitor (Published 2003)

Avanti Motor Corp agrees to make design changes to vehicle that prompted lawsuit because it looked too much like General Motors Corp's Hummer H2; agrees to give its Studebaker XUV more streamlined rather than boxy look that is one of H2's distinguishing features (S)

www.nytimes.com

 

[nickw]

Here is an interesting analysis on automotive trade dress from an actual lawyer. It is interesting to note that in this case, Avanti conceded to GM's demands.

This was a different case, but interesting none the less. I don't see Ineos giving up quite so easily.

https://www.venable.com/files/Publication/001ef38a-4a58-4455-91de-c2094f85104c/Presentation/PublicationAttachment/bb76ad56-cd72-4309-8459-2ce009123156/1104.pdf

Concessions by Hummer H2 Competitor (Published 2003)

Avanti Motor Corp agrees to make design changes to vehicle that prompted lawsuit because it looked too much like General Motors Corp's Hummer H2; agrees to give its Studebaker XUV more streamlined rather than boxy look that is one of H2's distinguishing features (S)

www.nytimes.com

Great find....very relevant, wonder what the outcome was? The Shelby case noted in the article is fairly telling:

"... found that Carroll Shelby and Ford had failed to present sufficient survey evidence that “the primary significance of the [Shelby] Cobra shape in the minds of consumers is to identify Shelby as the single producer [of the car].”

And this was an interesting follow up about "Post Sale Confusion" re; people confusing copied vehicles:

"And in each case, the court responded that the relevant audience was not the buyers, but others who saw the buyers wearing and enjoying the product in public and could be mistaken as to its source. "

So would an average person on the street get confused, I think so....but I also don't think an average person knows (or cares) it's a Land Rover they are looking at. Based on above I'd find it hard to believe JLR could uphold this....

 

[Junx]

Demonstration of the parts catalog, exploded diagrams and on-line service manual for the Grenadier from CAD IT

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Demonstration of the parts catalog, exploded diagrams and on-line service manual for the Grenadier from CAD IT

That is brilliant. Exceeded my expectations for level of detail and functionality. It will be interesting to see how it functions in 'offline' mode, if at all.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Thanks folks for the thread input. I have a deposit down but not really following the emailed vids but am reading here.

Do have a question. On the lower portion of the doors there looks to be some kind provision for mounting stuff - think I read that - question is, what might one attach there ?

The Grendier can be spec'd with a "Utility Belt" which is that O-Track looking stuff along the upper part of the door, and that lower part (not a full strip, just those plastic mount things) are to support the mounting of accessories on this utility belt. I don't know specifically of what is going to go there, but there have been a few ideas tossed around. I don't even think Ineos has confirmed what they are doing with it yet. Some of the ideas I've seen though include a vertical shovel mount, a table support (as in, the table attaches to the upper utility belt, and then is supported by an angled arm to the bottom clip), or potentially even Pannier mounts like the New Defender. I'll be interested to see what those mounts are rated for as that will inform how they can be used for accessories.

 

[Junx]

JLR has filed a motion to dismiss the Ineos suit on the 15th of this month... The US District Court judge has to make a decision by Dec 20.

I've attached the juiciest part of their brief. I am not a lawyer, but my reading of it tells me that Ineos should have done a better job researching their position.

JLR's arguments seem pretty well founded and supported. I expect this case to be dismissed.

 

[nickw]

JLR has filed a motion to dismiss the Ineos suit on the 15th of this month... The US District Court judge has to make a decision by Dec 20.

I've attached the juiciest part of their brief. I am not a lawyer, but my reading of it tells me that Ineos should have done a better job researching their position.

JLR's arguments seem pretty well founded and supported. I expect this case to be dismissed.

Interesting....JLR sent Ineos a letter prior to it even being designed saying they have trademark and copyright protection on the Defender design and would defend it.

Here is the Trademark for the 2-door:

Trademark Status & Document Retrieval

tsdr.uspto.gov

Here is the Trademark for the 4-door:

Trademark Status & Document Retrieval

tsdr.uspto.gov

 

[stickshifter]

Grenadier Pricing:



NOTE: I got this from the Ineos Grenadier forum - not through any research of my own. Sorry if this is repeated information - I saw discussion of price early in the thread, but did not read through all 29 pages of the thread.

 

[stickshifter]

I hadn't noticed until just now that the Grenadier's differentials / drive shafts are not in the center of the vehicle (they are off-set, like in the old Defender). Here is a screenshot from a promotional video (link to the video is below the photo):

 

[stickshifter]

It is really hard to judge terrain from photos or videos. Having said that, the front axle in this photo does not seem to be demonstrating a lot of articulation. Am I misinterpreting the image? The left rear tire is definitely in a hole, but I'd expect to see a little more droop in the right front tire, no?



I found the same shot from a different angle (below). Pretty big hole that the left rear tire is in, but still, the front axle doesn't seem to articulate much. Before anyone points it out: I do understand that the Grenadier is not designed as a specialized rock-crawler.