InssssssssVANity!!!!!!!......or ****** did I just fly to Maine to by a Sprinter!

[Cole]

Your house has vapor barrier built into the wall structure and does not conduct moister form the outside, if the vapor barriers were not in place your wall insulation would suck up the first intrusion then it would spread to areas of least resistance, ie carpet, padding, basement, crawl space, ect..

Okay, just it continue the discussion,

Vapor barriers are relatively new. 100 year old houses don't have them, yet they are still 100 years old!

The relative "open to the environment" space of the inside of the van to the outside of the van compared to the inside/outside of the house could be different. The time that 75% of the wall space of the van is open and exposed to the outside world compared to the time that 2-3% of the inside wall space of a house (doors/windows) is open to the outside world are vastly different. Also keep in mind you are protecting against vapor coming through wood, vs through steel!

Now, if its a car that sits outside, unused a LOT, in a moist environment I can see the difference. However, even if I never use the car and let it sit outside here in Colorado (perhaps one of the driest environments on earth). I can't imagine we would have a moisture issue?!( we don't have a rust problem here!, we don't have a mold or mildew problem here, towels from your shower are dry before you finish getting dressed! )

 

[java]

ok for sake of good discussion. sleeping inside the van, did you get condensation on the walls or ceiling? This will be cut down a bit by insulation, but will still happen on the surface of the metal. If the insulation you choose is very porous (carpet pad) it will soak it up. may not be much but its then trapped in a substance that's harder to get it back out of.
If CO is really that dry, it will come back out, just slowly. this can cause mildew and mold over time. hence why RV companies use closed cell foam for the most part these days. It doesnt soak up any moisture.

If you can keep the moist air away from the metal body all together thats the best. But REALLY hard to do.

 

[java]

Oh and its worse just due to volume inside the car vs. a house. There is a lot more breath per sq in in a car vs a house.

Sleep with the doors open=no problems! but not good for heat either.

 

[Cole]

We camped in my Eurovan 9 times, for about a total of 30 days last summer with 5 of us inside. (Two a adult humans, one baby and two dogs 65/100lbs) most all of it was at elevations of 8k to 11k feet.

75% of the time the Poptop was popped.

The ONLY time I noticed moisture inside the van in the morning was when we had the top down and the propane furnace on before going to bed. The other mornings the windows were dry.

Obviously, the ventilation will be different in a hardtop van vs one with a Poptop. But in all likelihood, we will have windows open most of the time if we felt the need to have the pop top up. (Since only on one trip did anyone actually sleep up there)

(This also mean that 30 dash of breathing in he the van at night get equalized out by 365 days of drying?)

 

[bknudtsen]

Unfortunately, I can't provide you with facts regarding the use of household carpet padding in vehicles. All I have is anecdotal examples from my residential water damage restoration days.
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I don't think anyone is concerned about day to day usage, or even storage in the climate you describe. However, a camping trip with 3 humans and 2 dogs creating a significant amount of moisture will cause condensation on the interior sheetmetal. You can't really compare it to a house, as the overall larger volume of air disperses the moisture and decreases the % of humidity. A small metal box tends to concentrate it. There are some great discussions on vapor barriers, thermal bridging and insulation on this site. I have seen plenty of pics of the rust created inside camper vans though from years of use. One thing to do would to ensure proper ventilation via the use of a roof fan.
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I read a thread in this sub-forum recently where the poster describes icicles hanging from the inside of the van.
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**EDIT**

Sorry, I was typing when you posted your last reply. I would say go for it, but be on the lookout for moisture issues. Maybe you could sandwich the padding in some plastic wrap, all sealed up?

 

[Cole]

Okay. So along those lines.

If you were to put a vapor barrier over the automotive cavities it would certainly improve the situation. That doesn't sound like a difficult task.

Also, the volume of the long Sprinter and 3-4 layers of carpet padding would be much different than the volume of the Eurovan.

All jaunt thoughts for discussion.

 

[bknudtsen]

Vapor barrier goes on the heated side of the insulation. You just want to keep the moisture from your families breath from reaching the cooler sheetmetal. But, with a couple Fantastic Fans exhausting air during the night, I bet you would be fine. Especially if you are pulling in drier air via a window.
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I guess my biggest concern is the tendency for open cell carpet padding to hold moisture once it is wet. I guess you could just get a piece of it, get it wet, ring it out, stick it in the van, and see how long it takes to dry. Shoot, maybe if you sandwich the padding so that the plastic backing is facing out on both sides, that might be enough..
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I'm trying to get on board here... :sombrero:

 

[Cole]

I'll try to read all these great links tonight.

Another question then. How would carpet pad vary from the cloth/cotton/wool "juke" padding many vehicles come with stock as insulation in panels and under carpet? Seems like VERY SIMILAR stuff !

Edit: here is a photo of the stock insulation for a Eurovan. About 3/4" thick and feels like wool! "Feels" WAY more moisture absorbing than the plasticy coated carpet padding foam!(if you've read my
Eurovan three you'll know I had 3 Eurovans so have some leftover misc parts including these insulation bits.)


So what's the difference?

 

[bknudtsen]

One smells like a wet dog, and one smells like an old kitchen sponge... :coffeedrink:
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Seriously though, when I bought my van, it had the denim type batting under the vinyl flooring, and yep, it was soaked. Nasty smelling, no way it was going to ever dry out in place. For that very reason, I have avoided putting any type of insulation in my van until I get a better idea of how to mitigate the moisture that will no doubt make its way in.

 

[Cole]

One smells like a wet dog, and one smells like an old kitchen sponge... :coffeedrink:
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Seriously though, when I bought my van, it had the denim type batting under the vinyl flooring, and yep, it was soaked. Nasty smelling, no way it was going to ever dry out in place. For that very reason, I have avoided putting any type of insulation in my van until I get a better idea of how to mitigate the moisture that will no doubt make its way in.

Having ridden a motorcycle around the PNW for a month I have no doubt about the moisture issues! Nothing I had dried out, ever! Not even the gear exposed to 60mph wind all day, or the gear sitting on the heater in the hotel room at night!


I would imagine that other than a trip to the PNW this van will live in a MUCH drier environment !

2 motorcycles in this picture btw!

 

[boardrider247]

So,why doesn't it get soaked up an moldy in my house?

It does, I tore around 1500sqft of carpet out of my home all of the pad was molded and decaying to some extent.
I will NEVER willingly ad carpeting to a home I own ever again.
We do have much more humid summer here then in Colorado.

Okay, just it continue the discussion,

Vapor barriers are relatively new. 100 year old houses don't have them, yet they are still 100 years old! )

100 year old houses are not sealed any where near as well as a new home or a van. They don't retain any moisture ....................or heat:coffeedrink:

There is so much air movement through the walls that any moisture doesn't stay trapped in the wall, it travels through the wall with the air.

We camped in my Eurovan 9 times, for about a total of 30 days last summer with 5 of us inside. (Two a adult humans, one baby and two dogs 65/100lbs) most all of it was at elevations of 8k to 11k feet.

75% of the time the Poptop was popped.

The ONLY time I noticed moisture inside the van in the morning was when we had the top down and the propane furnace on before going to bed.

Exactly, the canvas pop top is allowing any moisture to escape the van. Add a pop top or run a vent in the sprinter and you shouldn't have any condensation problems either.


All of that aside I agree with you. In a dry climate using proper ventilation I don't think you would ever have a problem with the carpet padding molding. It won't work for everyone but it should work good for you.

 

[Cole]

Thanks for the well thought out responses from many of you guys! Too often the Internet degrades into crap when idea are challenged, even only for the sake of good discussion! I do appreciate the conversation!

 

[Overland Hadley]

100 year old houses are not sealed any where near as well as a new home or a van. They don't retain any moisture ....................or heat:coffeedrink:

There is so much air movement through the walls that any moisture doesn't stay trapped in the wall, it travels through the wall with the air.

This.
Also, 100 year old homes can be very wet and moldy behind the walls.

The other thing to consider is that a house holds a much larger volume of air. (in the winter) Bring two people and a dog into a house and all the windows will not fog up, not the case in a vehicle even with the HVAC going full blast.


Another thing to consider is that the van is non-porous metal, so if you add something that will hold moisture, all the moisture in the van will go into that. (A house on the other hand is mostly wood and will evenly absorb any extra moisture that is around.)

Personally, I would not use anything that can absorb any moisture.

 

[Frosty_1]

Cole,

I'd suggest digging into the Sprint Source Forum. Many useful threads on the subject of insulating Sprinter Vans. I would also search on there "Armaflex," "Enguard," and "Thinsolate" as those terms will bring up useful threads!

 

[Cole]

Colorado DMV has to be the most lunatic organization on earth!

They just told me my Sprinter has to registered as a "Truck"(more expensive) because it doesn't have a back seat!...and that if I put a seat in I must come change the title!

I asked what happens if I take the seats out of my "minivan" to run to Home Depot and buy some wood? Yep! You guessed it, I'm supposed to go change the title (pay taxes,fees, etc) because then its a "cargo van", then when I get home with the lumber and reinstall the seats I have to change the title back again as it is now a passenger van again!

The cost savings is enough to justify going home and putting the Eurovan back seat into the Sprinter just to get the vin inspection. (Out of state vehicle)