Installing new winch - wiring upgrade?

[BigSwede]

I will be installing a new Warn M8000 in my Trooper soon. Just wondering if it is worthwhile to upgrade to heavier gauge from the wiring that comes with the winch. I'm sure the factory wiring gets the job done, but are there real benefits to an upgrade? I'd rather do this once only if at all possible.

By way of background, this winch will be installed in an ARB bumper on a 95 Trooper, nothing fancy about the setup, other than I will be including a cutoff switch in the engine compartment.

 

[AFSOC]

Good question. I won't be contrasting the 4ga wiring included with the M8000 against 2ga, 0ga or 00ga in a table or quote Ohms Law but I will tell you, I did upgrade wiring when installing my M8000. Upgrading to 0ga gave me much heavier connectors with more surface area. Since integrity at connection points concerned me as much or more than conductor wire diameter, I chose to upgrade. Common sense and memory of reading a amperage efficiency table tells me chances of overheating the wire during high amp loads goes way down when diameter gets larger. Since I scratch built the cables, it was a good opportunity to relocate the solenoid under the hood too.

I think the Warn supplied cables will work just fine and would have worked for me. I am certainly not wearing out my winch from overuse. As of late it has been mostly for show and to add lots of weight way out in front of my axle. I don't think upgraded wiring is necessary but in theory it's nice to have.

 

[LR Max]

You can if you'd like. I've got a warn M12k running on the supplied wires with no problems. I think they are 4g.

Would be good overkill if the price tag doesn't kill ya!

 

[BigSwede]

Would be good overkill if the price tag doesn't kill ya!

I guess that's the question...I haven't looked into what upgrading would cost. I'm willing to pay for quality but usually try to find that sweet middle ground between price and performance...

It might be worth noting that, like AFSOC, I don't expect a ton of use on this winch.

 

[Warn Industries]

Good question. I won't be contrasting the 4ga wiring included with the M8000 against 2ga, 0ga or 00ga in a table or quote Ohms Law but I will tell you, I did upgrade wiring when installing my M8000. Upgrading to 0ga gave me much heavier connectors with more surface area. Since integrity at connection points concerned me as much or more than conductor wire diameter, I chose to upgrade. Common sense and memory of reading a amperage efficiency table tells me chances of overheating the wire during high amp loads goes way down when diameter gets larger. Since I scratch built the cables, it was a good opportunity to relocate the solenoid under the hood too.

I think the Warn supplied cables will work just fine and would have worked for me. I am certainly not wearing out my winch from overuse. As of late it has been mostly for show and to add lots of weight way out in front of my axle. I don't think upgraded wiring is necessary but in theory it's nice to have.

Other than the above stated surface area, etc., there isn't a whole lot that is going to be gained by upgrading. At least this is what I was told by our Technical Support guys.

- Andy

 

[BigSwede]

Thanks Andy. But honestly, I would be surprised if Warn said anything else, for several reasons.

 

[Antichrist]

It really depends on what the amp draw is vs. the length of the cable. Once you have those two numbers it's easy to know if it's worth upgrading and if there is anything to be gained.
The main thing is that the larger the wire the less volt drop you have and so more power to the motor (this also applies to lights, less volt drop the brighter, but low voltage can damage a motor). The higher the winching load the higher the volt drop for a given wire size/length.
I always upgrade the cable so that at full load the volt drop is less than 0.5v, though I like to keep it down around .25 or so.
The M80000 draws 435amps @ 8000lb so #4 would be ok up to a 3' long cable, that would give you .39v drop. For that distance #2 would be .26v.
This is using 12v as the system voltage, even though it's a bit higher with the engine running, which reduces the drop. I just figure 12v as a safety margin in the event of needing to winch with a dead engine.

 

[I Leak Oil]

Thanks Andy. But honestly, I would be surprised if Warn said anything else, for several reasons.

So you ask for advice, then crap on it when it's given? Nice...

 

[Revco]

Probably no real benefit over the supplied cables. If you do decide to go bigger, just take the supplied cables to a battery/alternator shop and they can copy them over to a bigger gauge wire and crimp the connectors on. Wouldn't cost much...

I just bought 30' of red 4ga, 20' of black 4ga, and had 14 different ends crimped for $50 out the door at my local battery shop. This is to run power to the Anderson SB175 connectors on the back bumper, and front bumper to power my winch. I cut the winch cables down and had the ends crimped for an SB175 connector there, and also had a pair of jumper cable ends crimped to put them in the SB175 connector, as well as a 10' extension with 2 Anderson connectors on it. This way I can use my winch on the front receiver or rear receiver hit. With the extension I can power the winch when it's on the trailer, or have another 10' for the jumper cables that can be connected on the front or rear.

Versatility is key.:26_7_2:

 

[Antichrist]

So you ask for advice, then crap on it when it's given? Nice...

I think his reply meant that he wouldn't expect Warn, or any winch manufacturer, to say otherwise. Wouldn't you be surprised if Warn were to say, "Yes, with our power cables you get excessive volt drop so it's a good idea to buy larger ones when you install one of our winches"?

 

[BigSwede]

I think his reply meant that he wouldn't expect Warn, or any winch manufacturer, to say otherwise. Wouldn't you be surprised if Warn were to say, "Yes, with our power cables you get excessive volt drop so it's a good idea to buy larger ones when you install one of our winches"?

Exactly. And there could even be liability issues associated with such a statement. Frankly, Warn would be stupid to say anything about their winches is inadequate out of the box.

I wasn't dissing Andy's contribution, just trying to put it in proper context.

 

[BigSwede]

The M8000 draws 435amps @ 8000lb so #4 would be ok up to a 3' long cable, that would give you .39v drop. For that distance #2 would be .26v.
This is using 12v as the system voltage, even though it's a bit higher with the engine running, which reduces the drop. I just figure 12v as a safety margin in the event of needing to winch with a dead engine.

Solid info, thanks, always nice to have real numbers. 3 feet might even get me there, can't be much more.

 

[Antichrist]

Seeing where you live, if you do get cables made, make sure they use closed barreled connectors and adhesive lined heat shrink on them. I'm assuming Minnesota is as salty in the winter as Vermont. Though it's a good idea to go that route no matter where one lives.

 

[BigSwede]

Plenty of road salt around here, although the Trooper is not my DD and I try not to expose it to road salt if possible. The fewer rusty bolts I have to work on, the better...

 

[Warn Industries]

Exactly. And there could even be liability issues associated with such a statement. Frankly, Warn would be stupid to say anything about their winches is inadequate out of the box.

I wasn't dissing Andy's contribution, just trying to put it in proper context.

Trust me, I didn't take it in any other context; no harm, no foul. I see what you're saying and understand the implication. With that being said, my co-worker (and winch expert) honestly told me there wouldn't be much of a benefit on an M8000.

- Andy